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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted December 03, 2010 09:07 PM |
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It's all fine and dandy until they start taking such unimaginative crap as dark evles or dragons of all kinds. Then it's just lazy.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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LordGodric
Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
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posted December 04, 2010 06:33 PM |
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I wouldn't mind if the dwarven fortress was the 4th faction, i really like those guys. ok, H5 fortress was very bad designed, with all that bounch of dwavers and only a monster - and even not a decent one!-
But it would be very unlikely that it's tthe 4th faction, since it was said somewhere that the campaign protagnists are siblings... it would be very weird a 'half-dwarf' and i doubt they would be lead by a humam.
I hope the fourth is Sylvan, but i'll be ok if it's academy. I doubt it's an evil one, since we already have inferno and necropolis.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2010 09:42 PM |
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You know what I find really annoying, the way people are prepared to give Haven a dispensation on the whole race-faction thing, simply because they've been around a long time. Come on people, Ubisoft basically wiped out the original storyline, there's no need whatsoever to keep to its limits.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted December 04, 2010 09:53 PM |
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Quote:
You know what I find really annoying, the way people are prepared to give Haven a dispensation on the whole race-faction thing, simply because they've been around a long time. Come on people, Ubisoft basically wiped out the original storyline, there's no need whatsoever to keep to its limits.
Agreed!!!
Actually i lean towards Theme-based factions, that's why Haven never been my favourite, but Race-based is ok as well, i mean if it is done with quality, why not? As long as we don't get 6 dwarves for example with different types of weapons, but instead a well balanced faction with good creatures and dwarves in the line up, it's ok with me!!
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted December 04, 2010 09:54 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 21:55, 04 Dec 2010.
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Quote:
You know what I find really annoying, the way people are prepared to give Haven a dispensation on the whole race-faction thing, simply because they've been around a long time. Come on people, Ubisoft basically wiped out the original storyline, there's no need whatsoever to keep to its limits.
Maybe...
But why when it fits them so well? (personal opinion ofc)
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2010 10:03 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:11, 04 Dec 2010.
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Quote:
Maybe...
But why when it fits them so well? (personal opinion ofc)
Because it fits the Dwarves even better, yet you try proposing an all-dwarf faction (or even a faction with more than 2-3 dwarves)... If you're going to make rules/guidelines, make them, if you're going to make exceptions, you shouldn't be making rules/guidelines in the first place.
Besides, I'm sick to death of the Humans = Western Europeans stereotype, it's so clichéd it's not even funny.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted December 04, 2010 10:12 PM |
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Quote:
You know what I find really annoying, the way people are prepared to give Haven a dispensation on the whole race-faction thing, simply because they've been around a long time. Come on people, Ubisoft basically wiped out the original storyline, there's no need whatsoever to keep to its limits.
It's because they are the quintessentially human faction that they can get away with it, in my opinion. Anyways, Haven/Castle has more supernatural/divine/mythological stuff in Heroes VI than it's ever had before.
I object to other towns being racially bland, but not Haven, because every other town is based around fantasy or mythological creatures and as such I personally expect those towns to be a bit more exciting than 4 units of the same race. I don't mind Haven/Castle so much because they're human and as such I guess I naturally expect less mythological things from them. Probably not a really rational viewpoint, but there it is.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted December 04, 2010 10:13 PM |
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Quote:
yet you try proposing an all-dwarf faction (or even a faction with more than 2-3 dwarves)...
whaaaaat? That is one of the last things I want. If I want dwarfs they should imo be a minor unit/race, and if they have their own faction then there should only be 1, max 2 unit of dwarfs in it.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted December 05, 2010 01:21 AM |
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Edited by Aosaw at 01:21, 05 Dec 2010.
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It's the quantum mechanics version of persuasive argument: If we ask you the same question over and over again, inevitably your answer will be different at least once. 
I wasn't a fan of the dwarves in H5; but I did like the dwarves as they had appeared in every game prior. My only problem with them in H3 was that they played a lot like halflings with hammers instead of slings, and I didn't see the reason behind it.
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Omnipotence
Hired Hero
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posted December 05, 2010 01:47 AM |
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In my honest opinion, dwarves dont belong as an individual faction nor as part of a different faction (maybe neutrals?) After H5, the dwarves were presented with too remote of a nature, being secluded to their mountains and caves, to have any significant impact on the game. That and, despite whether they are superior to elves, humans, whatever, they havnt had the same deep integration in the universe to all of a sudden be constantly brought up within the major factions. Due to this, I am against and wouldnt expect the presence of dwarves as a faction. They could try intergrating them in another expansion but in Hammers they just seemed to out of the blue and distant from the other factions...
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"Life... Liberty... And The Pursuit Of All Who Threaten It." - United States Navy
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 05, 2010 04:32 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 05:10, 05 Dec 2010.
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Quote:
I don't mind Haven/Castle so much because they're human and as such I guess I naturally expect less mythological things from them. Probably not a really rational viewpoint...
Yeah, because humans invented all that mythological stuff in the first place.
Quote:
whaaaaat? That is one of the last things I want. If I want dwarfs they should imo be a minor unit/race, and if they have their own faction then there should only be 1, max 2 unit of dwarfs in it.
This is exactly the sort of attitude that gets me annoyed, people are prepared to give humans a bit of leeway, despite the fact that the only thing separating us out from the rest of the races is that we're actually weaker than other races, and could actually do with a bit of help ourselves.
People, just because Nival was too dumb to be able to make a working faction of their own, doesn't mean that all of the other developers in the world are just as bone-brained in the field. I'll repeat what I said before if you're going to make rules, make them, if you're going to make exceptions, you shouldn't be making rules in the first place.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted December 05, 2010 05:28 AM |
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Yeah, I think the thing is when I think of Haven I think of medieval knights and medieval warfare, which was not heavily populated by mythological creatures to say the least. When I think of elves and dwarves, I think of mythological creatures and magical beasts.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted December 05, 2010 07:17 AM |
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“Umm the factions had been chosen a long while ago.” , hence my (Crazy X File like theory), basically due to lack of info, I`ve started coming up with a crazy secret conspiracy like theory.
Seems like dwarfs have become a debate think, I just got to say that I like the idea of a dwarf faction, but not like in H5, I found weird that Nival ripped of Dungeon from Warhammer Dark Elves (they even admitted), and when creating the Dwarven Fortress thy ignore it, I had expected to see primitive fire guns, or mechanical contraptions basically les looking alike units. O and the fact that is all dwarven hmm in all lore the dwarfs have a basic characteristic, they dig in mountains have closed and secretive society, that emphasize family bonds and work as a well oiled machine.
Bottom line I agree with MattII regarding Nival, and I would love to see a dwarven faction, but needs a serious rethinking.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 05, 2010 08:47 AM |
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Quote:
Yeah, I think the thing is when I think of Haven I think of medieval knights and medieval warfare, which was not heavily populated by mythological creatures to say the least.
Which is exactly why Haven has always been the most boring faction ...
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted December 05, 2010 11:43 AM |
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Now giving my two cents in this, for what it's worth. I agree that a Dwarf faction is a viable thing with great potential. But they should think it through three times over, with some of the lore Experts. And most of all don't listen to the fans to much when it comes to creating things.
What they've done now is a pretty good compromise. They listened to the fans and made some minor changes here and there, but mostly they've done what they've wanted to do.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 05, 2010 11:58 AM |
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Quote:
Well the thing with the Dwarves in HoMMV is that Nival did not consult Ubisoft much and largely relied on input from their Russian Fans.
So you are saying that Ubisoft, who own the franchise, allowed Nival to do what they want and did not impose any quality control in the process? Sorry, this makes no sense. Even if Ubi played blind all the time - which I very seriously doubt - they authorized HoF to be launched as it was - with 5 small dwarves, 1 big dwarf and one more dragon. So it is not the fans to blame that the implementation of a stupid idea was approved, even if they came up with the whole concept (which I doubt too).
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted December 05, 2010 12:00 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 12:04, 05 Dec 2010.
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Quote:
This is exactly the sort of attitude that gets me annoyed, people are prepared to give humans a bit of leeway, despite the fact that the only thing separating us out from the rest of the races is that we're actually weaker than other races, and could actually do with a bit of help ourselves.
This doesn't really matter since this is a fantasy. A single human is still stronger then a goblin, imp or whatever, and we reproduce faster then elves and so on.
Quote:
if you're going to make rules, make them, if you're going to make exceptions, you shouldn't be making rules in the first place.
What are these rules you keep talking about? I would hate if there was certain rules that govern what kind, and what amount of certain units there would be in a faction.
To make it clear, I want diversity. Take the H3 fortress, it only had 2 of the faction race as units, lizardmen and gnolls. So it had 5 creature thet was pure beasts, which is fine especially considering that they are Beastmasters. The Castle in H3 however was I admitt kinda boring, but once again it fits them. So my point is there should be different amount of certain kind of creatures in each faction. high amount of race units in Haven, high amount of creatures in fortress, and so on. Yeah Haven could use a face-lift but they are perfect now with their new line-up for H6.
Haha well I don't think we can go any further, since we simply outright disagree with eachother 
Quote:
Yeah, I think the thing is when I think of Haven I think of medieval knights and medieval warfare, which was not heavily populated by mythological creatures to say the least. When I think of elves and dwarves, I think of mythological creatures and magical beasts.
Yeah, pretty much this
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted December 05, 2010 12:30 PM |
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I retract my statements.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Dexter
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2010 12:46 PM |
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Edited by Dexter at 12:48, 05 Dec 2010.
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@War-overlord: I dare say you are 100% wrong. Nival was in charge of all the projects up to Heroes VI, and if it wasn't for certain issues, you would get a Nival made Heroes VI in late 2009. However since some problems arose the project was dropped, even though the work started already, and let me say that it reach almost the stage at which Black Hole was in August.
The main producer controls everything that is implemented into the game. At the time of Heroes V it was Fabrice, who decided that the designs are satisfying and thus they may be used to create 3D models of actual units. That means Ubisoft had full control and enough opportunities to change whatever they disliked. If they didn't it either means they were satisfied or that they didn't care about the final quality of the game, which I really doubt.
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Aatos
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
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posted December 05, 2010 08:44 PM |
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Quote:
Take the H3 fortress, it only had 2 of the faction race as units, lizardmen and gnolls. So it had 5 creature thet was pure beasts, which is fine especially considering that they are Beastmasters.
I think that H3 Fortress does not have a faction race. Except if you are considering the heroes, which I think shouldn't be done, because anyone can be a hero in a faction. They are all different creatures. And they seem like a good faction.
Castle is made out of five human units, the griffin and the angel which is human like and it also seems like a good faction.
I think that it doesn't matter if the creatures are the same or different as long as they have something that connects them to the faction. Like might, magic, terrain or philosophy.
And of course the most important things are that the game is fun to play and that it has good mechanics.
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