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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted August 12, 2011 10:09 PM |
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I am afraid they have nerfed the Ghost ability way too much. Shame, it was my favorite creature to start with... now it will be almost useless with less than half of its healing potential.
I second what Kitten said completely.
Reducing the usefulness of the Heal and Regeneration spells is also dumb. It was already annoying that one had to wait until they could be re-cast.
Why don't they understand that the best way to balance the healing spells is to restrict access to specific skill branches if someone picks them?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 12, 2011 10:09 PM |
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Quote:
Catapults in this game are worthless. Without being able to manually control them or get another shot, it takes way too long to break through the walls. Even hammering on the gate will take several turns which will be spent being turned into a pincushion.
Which leeds to the obvious conclusion: Make skills to boost catapult. It's not rocket science ... 
Quote:
Reducing the usefulness of the Heal and Regeneration spells is also dumb. It was already annoying that one had to wait until they could be re-cast.
Why don't they understand that the best way to balance the healing spells is to restrict access to specific skill branches if someone picks them?
Exactly this, plus they can refine the system, so that for instance Heal only cures top creature with no "mastery" or "Light I", and it's only once you learn "Light II" that you get the resurrecting effect. This will support synergy (namely: Focus on one Magic school to get full effects of spells, instead of just picking one here and one there at will), plus it would limit access to resurrection in early game (as you can only learn Light II at level 5+).
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What will happen now?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 12, 2011 10:20 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 22:21, 12 Aug 2011.
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I don't think anyone really cares what happens in the first 4 levels.. Take a chest, visit a learning stone, have a couple easy fights, presto tier 2. It's the harder, abusable fights that come after week 1 until week 3 that I'd be more concerned about.
Now if tier 2 was higher.. Not that I have any issues with that though.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted August 12, 2011 10:27 PM |
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Quote:
I am afraid they have nerfed the Ghost ability way too much. Shame, it was my favorite creature to start with... now it will be almost useless with less than half of its healing potential.
Personally I like the change, why? Because now it's more important to have enemy units next to the target, making it more unique. The Healing will be greater then before if there are 2 or more enemy units next to them.
Otherwise I agree with people that the nerf to heal and regeneration is totally wrong. It has been nerfed in the wrong way, cooldowns sucks.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted August 12, 2011 10:35 PM |
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Edited by SoilBurn at 22:41, 12 Aug 2011.
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Quote:
Exactly this, plus they can refine the system, so that for instance Heal only cures top creature with no "mastery" or "Light I", and it's only once you learn "Light II" that you get the resurrecting effect. This will support synergy (namely: Focus on one Magic school to get full effects of spells, instead of just picking one here and one there at will), plus it would limit access to resurrection in early game (as you can only learn Light II at level 5+).
I cannot agree as i never liked the old definition of "healing", which was a mostly useless ability, effective only on single level 5-7 units. The problem was, you never had those units in the early game where this low-level spell might have been useful!
Hence I consider the old "Heal" spell a complete redundancy and I fully support the initiative to replace it with resurrection effects (of varying effectiveness).
How about the following counter-proposal:
Keep the resurrection effect even with "Light I", but restrict it only to Core tier units ("Light I" adds Spellpower). Then with "Light II" Heal can also resurrect Elite creatures (also +Spellpower) and with "Light III" Champion creatures. This way it is possible to retain the spell's function without allowing opportunistic hero builds.
EDIT:
Quote:
Personally I like the change, why? Because now it's more important to have enemy units next to the target, making it more unique. The Healing will be greater then before if there are 2 or more enemy units next to them.
As long as each adjacent unit gives +1 to the Wail's spellpower, I would gladly agree with you (e.g. under this assumption, 3 adjacent enemy units would restore the spell's "potence" back to 5).
But I doubt this secondary effect is going to be that strong. Let's wait until Tuesday and judge then.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted August 12, 2011 10:41 PM |
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Quote:
Keep the resurrection effect even with "Light I", but restrict it only to Core tier units ("Light I" adds Spellpower). Then with "Light II" Heal can also resurrect Elite creatures (also +Spellpower) and with "Light III" Champion creatures. This way it is possible to retain the spell's function without allowing opportunistic hero builds.
But it seems that creeping abuses in the first few weeks is really only done by swarms of Cores and healing, so giving "Light 2" the ability to resurrect core/ elite creatures would seem to give a bit more balance, imo (I still need to see the Beta in action.  ). Getting "Light 3" would then be just Champion creatures and a spellpower boost, just as a little treat for deciding to spend a level on it.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 12, 2011 10:54 PM |
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Quote:
Now if tier 2 was higher.. Not that I have any issues with that though.
I do  I've disliked the change since the beginning of the public beta.
Quote:
Quote:
I am afraid they have nerfed the Ghost ability way too much. Shame, it was my favorite creature to start with... now it will be almost useless with less than half of its healing potential.
Personally I like the change, why? Because now it's more important to have enemy units next to the target, making it more unique. The Healing will be greater then before if there are 2 or more enemy units next to them.
I agree, the Ghost healing is much more interesting now than it was and it also adds that "Necropolis touch" to the ability by dealing more damage and converting it to undead heal.
# Units surrounding the target / Healing per ghost (OLD) / Healing per ghost (NEW)
0 / 5 / 2
1 / 6 / 4
2 / 7 / 6
3 / 8 / 8
4 / 9 / 10
5 / 10 / 12
6 / 11 / 14
7 / 12 / 16
8 / 13 / 18
# Units surrounding the target / Damage per ghost (OLD) / Damage per ghost (NEW)
1 / 1 / 2
2 / 2 / 4
3 / 3 / 6
4 / 4 / 8
5 / 5 / 10
6 / 6 / 12
7 / 7 / 14
8 / 8 / 16
So basically, the damage of the spell has been doubled and with a good use of the spell (3 or more units around the target), you're at least as efficient as before the patch (goes up to +40% healing if surrounded by 8 units)
The values for 0 or 1 creature are actually what we've been asking for (a healing nerf) and it makes the use of Wail of the Netherworld a lot more tactical. Will you burn it early or will you wait until your Ghouls/Vampires are in the heat of the battle ?
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted August 13, 2011 02:44 AM |
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The duel mode is really great news. It will make skill balancing and testing much more effective (when it comes to combat).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 13, 2011 08:53 AM |
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Quote:
I cannot agree as i never liked the old definition of "healing", which was a mostly useless ability, effective only on single level 5-7 units. The problem was, you never had those units in the early game where this low-level spell might have been useful!
Hence I consider the old "Heal" spell a complete redundancy and I fully support the initiative to replace it with resurrection effects (of varying effectiveness).
Actually, I think the "old" Heal spell makes much more sense now that cores have significantly increased HP, because that means the difference between minimum and maximum HP does help preserve creatures. Plus, removing negative effects (does it still do that?) is always helpful.
Quote:
I don't think anyone really cares what happens in the first 4 levels.. Take a chest, visit a learning stone, have a couple easy fights, presto tier 2. It's the harder, abusable fights that come after week 1 until week 3 that I'd be more concerned about.
Now if tier 2 was higher.. Not that I have any issues with that though.
I agree with this, the point is not so much what happens before level 5 - and I also agree that pushing Tier 2 back to level 10 is a bad idea - if nothing else because now we have a more fluent evolution (i.e. new skills on level 5, class up on level 10, new skills on level 15, class up on level 20, whereas it all happened on level 10 and 20 before).
However, don't forget that if you have to pick Heal AND Light I AND Light II in order to get the resurrction effect, it's not just about the level 5 limit, but also that you actually need to put 3 ability points into this. Which I think is fine, it's a very powerful feature. Plus, now that you HAVE put those two ability points into Light I and II, it will incourage you to widen your Light repertoire rather than going spell shopping in all the other schools. And I think the game really need that, because as it is now, you just pick whatever you want from all skills, which makes no sense and makes it a very shallow decision.
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What will happen now?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 13, 2011 12:12 PM |
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Perhaps skills Like Light I/II/III could cut the cooldown on abilities by 1/each to make them more useful?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted August 13, 2011 12:47 PM |
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I like some changes but definitely not the nerf of stronghold, I just don't get the why (centaurs already were nerfed in growth and cyclops I don't care, they are still very strong). I hope they fix the power of vestals, maybe give them a cooldown as for the glories as it seems the new patch didn't adress that or maybe it's just not documented (I hope). No range penalty for coral? It was better implemented in earlier version where coral had penalty but not upgrade. Haven faction just seems stronger now compared to others (even with 2 heals from sisters). I like Haven faction but not when it's so easy with them. Change in ghosts is nice flavor to the faction. Mass heal and regeneration is a joke, I just never used them anyway so I'll sure never use them more this time. No need to creep with all units, just some with each hero so no need of mass costly healing spells. In final fights there will be better spells to use so maybe give incentive to use those spells instead of just condamning them to a newborn death.
Well, just some thoughts, first impressions, maybe playing will change my views, let's wait, ...
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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Kitten
Known Hero
Roar
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posted August 13, 2011 02:01 PM |
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Anyone else thinks the 40 champions in duel mode is too strong? Nothing can stop those 40 Enraged Cyclops. During beta phase 1, I made my own "duels" consisting of
180 cores
60 elites
20 champions
It was quite balanced and no unit could take down everything. Now in their duel modes it's
180-220 or so cores
84-96 elites ( vampire Lord gets a bit over 100)
40 champions.
I'm pretty sure they gave the units amount X number of weeks, hence why those fire doggies get around 180 only.
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nicol_ra
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posted August 13, 2011 02:03 PM |
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Dificulty level (lack of)
Hello,
Will the AI in Heroes VI be more challenging then previous versions. I play at champion difficulty and when I reach the other computer players they are never a match for my army. For instance last game I finished with 184 vampires and 34 devils against 3 dragons and not much lower creatures. It's like AI recruits the creature but then they die. His heroes are also weak LVL 16-17 against my level 29.
Anybody else experience this? I know the solution is to play against human players but internet connection is very slow and hotseat not always possible.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 13, 2011 02:41 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 14:42, 13 Aug 2011.
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No 
I have experienced exactly the opposite...
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Wckey
Famous Hero
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posted August 13, 2011 04:54 PM |
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Everytime I play a multiplayer game all enemy AI players always have at least one hero with an higher level than my main hero (However the same doesn't happen with AI players that are on the same team as me).
Something I hope they change is the fact that every hero you buy brings new creatures with him/her.
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Come back soon, Elvin!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 13, 2011 06:21 PM |
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The insiders have been invited to Cologne to have a chat with the developers on each community's behalf, but neither Elvin nor I have been able to go, unfortunately.
One of the others has volunteered to ask questions from the forums in place of us, however, and Heroes Community is definitely no exception. I can't guarantee that everything (or, indeed, anything) will get an answer, but I'll do my best to ensure there's representation, so: if there are specific questions you want them to address, post them here.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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nicol_ra
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posted August 13, 2011 06:33 PM |
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Specific question: Can you make the game more difficult? Example, a level of difficulty beyond Champion.
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted August 13, 2011 07:15 PM |
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I'm having doubts as to the viability of the (x3,x5,x7) level progression. Too easy to build secondary hero with 16.666 xp that creates new heroes that will become lv5 with a learning stone after learning from the mentor. That means additional marketplaces as you wish. Right now the exchange rates are not well done since with 8 marketplaces (or heroes) (less also but didn' want to check the exact moment) you can gain unlimited gold or ressources, as you wish by simply trading. Hope it's already in the bug list ...
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 13, 2011 07:58 PM |
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Quote:
I'm having doubts as to the viability of the (x3,x5,x7) level progression. Too easy to build secondary hero with 16.666 xp that creates new heroes that will become lv5 with a learning stone after learning from the mentor. That means additional marketplaces as you wish. Right now the exchange rates are not well done since with 8 marketplaces (or heroes) (less also but didn' want to check the exact moment) you can gain unlimited gold or ressources, as you wish by simply trading. Hope it's already in the bug list ...
Well, what can they do, first there was a 1 secondary hero/castle limit and people complained, and now there is complains that you can abuse buying more secondary heroes. I guess we reap as we've sowed on that one.
I guess it makes more sense to have questions once we've tried next stage of the beta. When will the meeting take place?
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What will happen now?
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Kitten
Known Hero
Roar
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posted August 13, 2011 08:00 PM |
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Quote:
I'm having doubts as to the viability of the (x3,x5,x7) level progression. Too easy to build secondary hero with 16.666 xp that creates new heroes that will become lv5 with a learning stone after learning from the mentor. That means additional marketplaces as you wish. Right now the exchange rates are not well done since with 8 marketplaces (or heroes) (less also but didn' want to check the exact moment) you can gain unlimited gold or ressources, as you wish by simply trading. Hope it's already in the bug list ...
But tavern heroes scales lvl with your main hero anyway  5 lvls below unless you select them to be equal. So if your hero is lvl 8, all tavern heroes will be lvl 3. Though the price goes up with lvl and how many heroes you got.
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