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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: US Presidential Race 2012
Thread: US Presidential Race 2012 [ This thread is 59 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 (32) 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 ]
Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted May 13, 2012 01:44 PM

Quote:
In the holy kingdom of Sweden, a top politician would doom his own career and wound his party by publically admitting to being against gay marriage or rights. It is scary how gay marriage/rights is even an issue in the supposedly mightiest and most influentual nation on Earth.

What's sad about it is that they claimed "one does not mingle with God's design". Conveniently forgetting that marriage is not designed by God but a human cultural design. "Country of the free" alright.

Quote:
That's why President Obama wasn't going to endorse it.  People act like it's a great thing that he did, but in 2008 he said marriage was between a man and a woman.  He knew it would kill his campaign to say otherwise.   Due to the Vice President's big mouth, he was backed into a corner and had to make a statement. He never really wanted to make the statement.  The only time he would have done so would have been after the election, when it could not harm him.  Now it will affect his campaign, and I don't think in a good way.

And here I was thinking politics were supposed to be about standing up for what you actually believe rather than trying to appeal to the majority... Sad, sad.

Seriously, why are you people still voting for these two donkeys?
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GunFred
GunFred


Famous Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted May 14, 2012 04:21 AM
Edited by GunFred at 09:56, 14 May 2012.

"Seriously, why are you people still voting for these two donkeys?"

Actually... One of them is an elephant...

Added: Found this hilarious CollegeHumour video from the election 2008 that shows what the parties believe will happen if the other wins. Trust me, it is hilarious no matter if you support democrats or republicans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-_JhRJ0tWA&feature=related

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted May 15, 2012 01:33 PM
Edited by The_Gootch at 13:36, 15 May 2012.

Corribus, you called Obama at one point one of the worst presidents ever?  What is your metric?  Who was the last president you actually liked whose era you lived through?

If you lean more towards libertarianism, what is your view on taxation?  Would you consider yourself on the side of Arther J. [should have been]Laffer[ed out of Washington] supply side economic theory or classic Keynesian demand side theory?

What do you think should be done about the state of healtcare in this country?  

What should be done about taxes?  Should there be spending cuts, tax increases, both?  

What do you think is the reason for stagnating wages of the middle class over the last 30 years?

What about the mass export of our manufacturing base?  

You're a smart, highly educated man. It baffles me that you have bought into that libertarian credos of:

1.  [Snow] thy neighbor.
2.  What's in it for me?
3.  Why should I...?

Finally, I challenge any libertarian here to name me ONE country that has succeeded with libertarian policies.  Just one.  [Snow] theory.  Give me a real life name of a successful country that has applied pure free market principles and minimal government.


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mvassilev
mvassilev


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 15, 2012 02:40 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 14:40, 15 May 2012.

I'm not Corribus, or even a libertarian, but
Quote:
1.  [Snow] thy neighbor.
2.  What's in it for me?
3.  Why should I...?
is a gross representation of libertarianism. Libertarians believe in the non-aggression principle: no entity is allowed to initiate force or fraud. That does not mean "[snow] thy neighbor", in fact, it means the opposite: it means companies aren't allowed to lie to their customers, pollute property that doesn't belong to them, or keep their workers locked up and not pay them overtime, it means the government can't kill civilians in Pakistan and Libya, etc. Also, libertarians can be charitable - they're only against the use of force for the purposes of redistribution. Gootch, you should know better than to put forth these tired old talking points that have been disproved a thousand times.

Quote:
Finally, I challenge any libertarian here to name me ONE country that has succeeded with libertarian policies.  Just one.
A truly free market has never existed, but freer markets have led countries to greater successes than the lack of them. Compare West Germany and East Germany, North Korea and South Korea, etc. Or, if you want to look at history, look at the US before the Industrial Revolution (with the obvious exceptions of slavery and women's rights, of course).
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 15, 2012 03:05 PM

Though I am Corribus, I don't really classify myself as anything.  

Quote:
If you lean more towards libertarianism, what is your view on taxation?  

My view on taxation is that there should be less of it.  Higher taxes discourage productivity, increase waste, and decrease consumer spending spending.  At the very least, the income tax system needs to be greatly simplified - lower the overall rate but at the same time reduce the number of allowed deductions (most deductions are just a secret way for the government to encourage behaviors it approves of - something the government shouldn't be doing in the first place), and especially eliminate the loophole that allows investment earners to earn oodles of investment earnings that aren't taxed as income.  I'm keen on the idea of a flat tax - or even dropping income tax altogether in favor of a consumption (sales) tax - because to me it seems the fairest option, but I'll openly admit that I'm not an economist and don't know all the possible consequences of such a radical change in the way taxes are collected.

Quote:
What do you think should be done about the state of healtcare in this country?

I've addressed healthcare elsewhere.  It's clear to me the recent healthcare bill doesn't solve any problems of our healthcare system (and in fact just confuses people about what the real problems are).  The biggest issue as I see it is the way people view health insurance - this is a cultural problem as much as anything else and isn't likely to be changed by legislation.  It's clear that private (individual) insurance policies need to be far cheaper than they are now, that tort reform needs to be enacted, and that insurance plans should be restructured to encourage people to opt into high deductible policies that ultimately lower costs for everyone.  I don't have the solution to how those changes can be effected, but I know the recent joke of a health care bill doesn't do any of it.

As to whether the government has the right to require people to purchase health insurance - even if there were clear benefits to such a requirement, as a matter of philosophy I don't agree with it.  We'll see in June if the USSC agrees with me.

Quote:
What should be done about taxes?  Should there be spending cuts, tax increases, both?

We spend enough money on far too many things we shouldn't be spending money on.  Remember how Obama said during the 2008 campaign repeatedly that he was going to go through the budget "with a scalpel"?  What a laugh.

To answer your question: there should be spending cuts and there should be tax restructuring, not necessarily unilateral increases or decreases.  But the tax code is such a mess and so loaded with political baggage that it will never happen.

Quote:
What do you think is the reason for stagnating wages of the middle class over the last 30 years?

How the heck should I know?  Ask a hundred economists and you'll probably get a hundred different answers.

Quote:
What about the mass export of our manufacturing base?  

What about it?

Quote:
You're a smart, highly educated man. It baffles me that you have bought into that libertarian credos of:

1.  [Snow] thy neighbor.
2.  What's in it for me?
3.  Why should I...?

This is just disingenous placing of words into my mouth.  It's a fairly nice straw man, but I'm not going to sit here and try to defend something I don't believe in.  Believing in smaller government is not the same as believing in no government at all, and nor does it mean I have no empathy or sympathy for the suffering of others.  I believe in many basic government services, but I also believe that trying to "legislate fairness" is as fruitless as it is wrong.

Quote:
Finally, I challenge any libertarian here to name me ONE country that has succeeded with libertarian policies.  

Hard to name one that has succeeded when I can't name one that has tried.

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kandhoshlo
kandhoshlo

Tavern Dweller
posted June 05, 2012 04:29 AM

Aside from cost, I've had great experiences with US health care, and my family certainly isn't "filthy rich".
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DarkShadow
DarkShadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted June 05, 2012 04:37 AM

I've had some great experiences with guns, doesn't mean I want to have to be forced to use them one day

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted June 15, 2012 11:58 AM
Edited by Elodin at 11:58, 15 Jun 2012.

The Bumster has decided to give large portions of the illegal aliens in the US immunity. Such things have failed to pass in the legislature so the dictator in chief does it anyways. People who think criminals should not be given immunity should vote the trickster out of office.

Clicky

Quote:

The White House will halt the deportation of as many as 800,000 young illegal immigrants and in some cases give them work permits, in a sweeping new initiative announced by the Department of Homeland Security.



Obumer is also sueing Florida for removing illegal aliens from the registered voter roles.

Clicky

Quote:

The Justice Department set the stage Monday to sue Florida over its effort to purge the voter rolls of non-U.S. citizens -- just hours after Gov. Rick Scott announced that his administration was filing suit against the federal government in connection with the same initiative.


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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted June 15, 2012 12:59 PM

Someone's desperate for the Hispanic vote.
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Minion
Minion


Supreme Hero
posted June 15, 2012 01:25 PM

People who have graduated from highschool and with no criminal record seem like ok folks to keep in the country imho.
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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Legendary Hero
Libertarian Mafia
posted June 15, 2012 02:01 PM

I agree. This is a good and humane thing. I'm sure mexicans do not have much trouble integrating into the US society and getting jobs. It's completly different from many of the refugees that have zero education that we get in Europe. Plus, the US isn't a wellfare state so your immigrants have to adapt and actually do stuff.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted June 15, 2012 02:44 PM

Quote:
Plus, the US isn't a wellfare state so your immigrants have to adapt and actually do stuff.


Hahahahahaha!!!  

That's a good one.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted June 15, 2012 03:10 PM

Quote:
People who have graduated from highschool and with no criminal record seem like ok folks to keep in the country imho.

The point of course isn't whether or not to keep people in the country.  It's letting people come into the country legally and in a controlled fashion.  Granting blanket amnesty doesn't solve any immigration problems - that is, problems with the system - it's just plain politics.

And Obama was going to change the way things were done in Washington.  LOL.
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted June 15, 2012 05:51 PM

Bravo Mr. President.  Bravo.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Snowball from Hell
posted June 15, 2012 06:03 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 18:06, 15 Jun 2012.

I'm generally happy to see amnesty given for non-criminal illegal immigrants (kind of a seeming paradox, but criminal minus the crossing the border part). Investing boots & money to chase around certain illegals is almost as ill-spent as the War on Drugs, particularly since the mass wave of illegal immigration has receded anyway. It would be better to just let the illegals that have already been here for some time to stay here. Pursue the problem-makers and as for the rest: wink at them and hand them a pardon.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted June 15, 2012 06:54 PM

Except that we weren't spending money chasing them, so it's not like we're suddenly going to save lots of money.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Snowball from Hell
posted June 15, 2012 07:05 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 19:25, 15 Jun 2012.

I think we will, because a free body is a free body, and the fact that they won't have to keep their heads low in fear will provide them better mobility and give them better odds of being successful, tax-paying citizens. Even if in reality the US doesn't go to much effort to catch them beyond the initial effort along the border states, that doesn't stop the illegals from going to great lengths to avoid detection out of paranoia. I was updating map & residence information as part of some preliminary work to the official 2010 Census, and yeah... good ****ing luck getting them to answer the door when you're wearing a navy blue satchel with the Department of Commerce logo on the outside. I might as well have been walking around naked, covered in blood, holding an axe in one hand a chain gun in the other, screaming at the top of my lungs "I'M A SPACE SQUID!" I'm pretty sure more illegals would have answered the door or returned my calls.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted June 15, 2012 08:14 PM

The border states are the main ones that hurt because of illegal immigration. Massive loss of jobs to citizens, increased welfare costs, increased police costs, increased education costs, increased costs of the prison system, ect.

The federal government needs to start sending subsidies to the states to pay for the illegals if they are not going to enforce the border. Since Ombuma is neglecting to follow his oath to uphold the laws of the land he should be impeached.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted June 20, 2012 11:34 AM

As Obama's attorney general faces contempt of Congress for refusing to turn over documents Obama uses executive privilege to participate in the cover up. Voters need to remove this clown from office.

Clicky
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted June 20, 2012 01:11 PM

*rolls his eyes, yet again*

Brilliant.  Romney is non-electable so the far right's only other option is to scream scandal and impeachment proceedings until they're blue red in the face.

Puhleese.
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