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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: US Presidential Race 2012
Thread: US Presidential Race 2012 [ This thread is 59 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 (34) 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 ]
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted July 04, 2012 02:25 PM

Maybe drug addicts aren't criminals, but most drug dealers certainly are.  The law does make some distinction between these two, but not enough.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 04, 2012 03:36 PM

Not all drug dealers are criminals. Society allows some drugs - and dealing with them -, others not, and that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
History has taught us that it is impossible to control drug use by outlawing it.
Drug dealers are only supplying a demand and make a big profit from it. At the same time they - and their customers - are outlawed, and since this doesn't actually change anything, the bottom line is a massive loss for society, human as well as economic.

The problem is comparable with the sex problem (the problem that there is a big demand, but "use" may have a certain price). The only reasonable solution is a responsible drug (sex) education and a controlled open-minded treatment of the "problem".

I mean, I wonder how it's possible to think it's perfectly alright to smoke fags, while drinking a large Whisky, but a complete desaster to smoke a joint, snort a line (of equally controlled pure and clean coke) or even shoot some (pure and clean) opiate.
Where's the difference? It's not like everyone would do everything all the time, right? If that was true, we had 100% smokers and drinkers.

So drug policy in most countries is absolutely foolish because it doesn't reach its goals. I mean, if you outlaw something, then your goal obviously isn't to put as many people behind bars as possible, but to deter a maximum of people from doing that something. In this case "doing" that something has to do with spending money. World annual drug report says that in the US, in 2008, inthe Cocaine market alone there was a turnover of 38 BILLION dollars.

Interestingly enough cigarette consumption in the US in 2007 was 360 Billion fags. Even today you can get a carton of 200 Marlboros for about 20 bucks, online, so interestingly enough the people of the United States spent as much money for the allowed cigarettes than for the forbidden Cocaine. If THAT's the difference between allowed and outlawed, something is quite obviously very wrong.

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted July 04, 2012 04:46 PM

Quote:
Quote:
People who use drugs typically are not conservatives.


Oh, so you mean that all those rustic white folk sustaining the meth trade, they're the ones who voted Obama into power?


*swoosh*

Nothing but net.

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted July 04, 2012 06:22 PM

Jailing everyone is just a sympthom of deeper problems. Its usually founding for the police, a reward system that does only consider amount of tickets/arrests passed out, internal corruption making the police not target the upper distributors, etc. Of course, no such thing will be adressed properly, at the least in western countries.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 04, 2012 07:19 PM

It's actually a lot worse. Police - or part of it - is in for a cut.

I would really like to hear even ONE good point for making some stuff legal and other stuff illegal.

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 04, 2012 09:14 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 00:32, 05 Jul 2012.

Quote:
Quote:
People who use drugs typically are not conservatives.


You’re kidding when you said this right? What kind of BS blatant nonsensical statement is that? I know conservatives that do drugs, go to any rehab and do a survey on that note.  One should have to allow their vomit like statements to be screened before forcing us to read s*** like that. Ones habits in regard to addictions or extracurricular fun are not based on which party they belong to. I would rather wakeup with my labia sewn to the carpet then listen to that ridiculousness

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted July 05, 2012 05:11 PM

Quote:
People who use drugs typically are not conservatives.


Indeed. People who are conservatives are addicted into something else,control?

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 05, 2012 10:55 PM

Quote:

It's long known that about 50% of all the risk factors for drug addiction are genetically predetermined. A drug addict is not a criminal, they are suffering from a disease and should treated that way.



The simple truth is no gene makes you snort a like of coke or smoke a joint.

Quote:

Not all drug dealers are criminals



All illegal drug dealers are criminals. Pharmacists are not criminals. All people who use illegal drugs illegally are breaking criminal law and are thus criminals.

Quote:

Drug dealers are only supplying a demand and make a big profit from it.



There is a demand for sex with little boys and girls. That does not mean that the sex slaves or child prostitution should be legal.

[qutoe]
It's actually a lot worse. Police - or part of it - is in for a cut.



Only a very, very small percentage of cops are corrupt. Most are hard working, conscientious individuals who put their lives on the line every day to help keep the public safe. Even for ungrateful people who look down on them.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Streetwise Hercules
posted July 06, 2012 01:51 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 02:18, 06 Jul 2012.

@JJ:

I think for certain drugs, you can make a case for why it should either be illegal or at least very regulated & controlled compared to something more moderate such as booze or weed. A lot of drugs have reasonably minimal impact on a person that will make them violent or dangerous. Something like crack on the other hand... crack will **** you up. If you take the # of people that are prone to become dangerous when they drink, you can surely multiple it many times over with crack. You can literally lose your mind.

People own licenses for vehicles, firearms, heavy machinery, etc... because there is an additional level of responsibility required in their use. This is especially true for a legally-defined parent/guardian. Most would agree that you don't have an inalienable right to walk around in a giant mech unless you've been trained to do it and don't have a record of obliterating shopping malls with your robot arms, which is probably what I would do after I suit up and become overwhelmed & exhilarated by the sheer magnitude of my strength. You can apply the same concept to certain drugs since there is a level of danger involved in their use, and not just to the individual taking them.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 06, 2012 06:58 AM

Blizz, you ARE aware of the danger potential of ancohol, right? How many people have already died from traffic accidents in connection with it?

The INHERENT dangers of EVERY drugs are

1) Overdosing (not necessarily lethal, but with unwished-for consequences, ill-effects and so on).

2) The effect as such, if it's mind-altering. For example, in many cases of drunk driving it's the effect of the drug that makes people over-confident and reckless.

Sure, drugs have a serious danger potential.
So WHAT?
What about the danger potential of air pollution? What about the millions of tons of uranium that our coal plants fire up into our lungs? Isn't that dangerous as well - but we WANT our energy, right? What about side effects of legal drugs that we take willingly - and in many cases needlessly? What about lead in fuel and CFC in fridges and other things?
What about the stuff we do all the time, not yet knowing that it gives us cancers and allergies and whatnot?

What we need is a better drug education, which includes the legal drugs as well. We need to better control the substances with a view on children, but we must DECRIMINALIZE it.

I mean, if you are born in some US big city social project and housing neighborhood - why would you not become part of the only employer and business that promises a good life style and deal drugs? Obviously it's a BIIIIIIIG market. A thriving one, in which people invest a lot of money.
And this comes ONLY from making this a crime.

I mean, if you read about Heroin - it's probably one of the best drugs ever invented. It has been sold a dozen of years as a cure against morphine addiction, but also against 40 other things like high blood pressure, lung and heart problems and more - as cocaine was in use widely to cure not so serious ailments, like cold, problems with the stomach and so on.
Of course it was to be taken ORALLY, not to be injected.

Anyway. The current situation is not acceptable.

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted July 06, 2012 09:09 AM

Quote:
Only a very, very small percentage of cops are corrupt. Most are hard working, conscientious individuals who put their lives on the line every day to help keep the public safe. Even for ungrateful people who look down on them.


If there is bad cops, and they actualy have a %, then cops should be looked down upon for not getting rid of them. If good cops is not working activly against bad cops, they are worse than the bad cops by letting them stay.
And secondly: Putting their life on the line? Most cops are glorified ticket handlers, and very few shoot at street thugs. Most of them also has the sensibility of calling for help if anything at all happens, meaning that per definition can't risk their lives. Then again, this is a structural problem. If its more "profitable" for a police station to write tickets and fines all day, then frankly investigating crime will not be prioritated.

So which presidental candidates of our 2 default choices is willing to do something about the corruption, misaimed founding, structural problems, and crony capitalism in lobbying? None.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted July 06, 2012 09:15 AM
Edited by Seraphim at 10:37, 06 Jul 2012.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE
Romney song!

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Streetwise Hercules
posted July 06, 2012 03:19 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 17:38, 06 Jul 2012.

@JJ:

Yes, I agree with across-the-board decriminalizing, but not all drugs should be treated with equal concern. The thing about alcohol is: it's already out of the bag. Billions of people consume it, many of them fairly regularly, and the bad consequences that can come with it are spread out over a huge demographic of people. Cocaine or heroine are niche markets that have plenty of room to grow, and those drugs can have a far stronger effect on a person's mind than some kiddish beer. You take enough cocaine and suddenly eating somebody's face sounds like a good idea. The next day: oops. Sorry about your face. I don't think we have reason to believe this will become an epidemic of a problem if these drugs are accessible in safer forms and dosages. Cough syrup can completely **** your mind up if you drink a huge dose of it, and it's available in practically any convenience store, yet it remains a niche market, probably because very few people even want to experience that. However, cough syrup is generally considered a weird, lazy-man's substitute for other drugs that are more sensual.
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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 06, 2012 07:49 PM

We should not hunt the drug users, they do not cause harm - but the people who are producing, smuggling and selling them. Just look at what the drug consumption in the US did to countries like Mexico.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted July 07, 2012 08:56 AM

Well, whats wrong with a little Capitalism in Mexico?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 07, 2012 10:58 AM

I don't exactly know what your opinion here is, Blizzard, but alcohol-induced violence is pretty common - it can't get much worse, actually.

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FriendOfGunnar
FriendOfGunnar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
able to speed up time
posted July 10, 2012 07:43 AM
Edited by friendofgunnar at 07:43, 10 Jul 2012.

@ Xerox and anybody else with anxiety about Romney you should take a look at this chart.  He's a centrist really who's running for office in a political system that demands polarity.

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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 10, 2012 11:48 AM

Well, I've always hated the American two-party system. It really sucks and for a country that's supposed to be pretty liberal, you don't really have a lot of choice. If politicans from the established parties are missing something, then people in a country with a parliament will start a party and change stuff. If politicans from the existing parties are not doing a good job, then the people won't allow them to stay in the parliament. With the US system, you can't exactly vote to keep the Republicans out unless you want to turn the US into dictatorship ruled by Democrats. (lol)
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted July 10, 2012 12:03 PM

Romney changed his opinion on everything to become the Republican nominee. Makes you wonder what he REALLY feels about any issue really.
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Our consciousness should be global, our footprint local.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 11, 2012 04:50 AM

Flip-floper-in-chief Uhbumhu is closing down some border patrol stations to make it easier for illegal aliens to cross the border and vote for him. He is fighting the Texas voter ID law too. Dems are traditionally voted for by the dead, cartoon characters, and illegal aliens so he is moving to solildify his electorate.

Perry has already made it clear Texas is not a state of bums and will not submit to Oldbum's Marxistcare. Omobster knows Texas is a lost cause for his extreme liberal agenda and is doing everything in his power to hurt Texas.

Clicky

Quote:

The Obama administration is moving to shut down nine Border Patrol stations across four states, triggering a backlash from local law enforcement, members of Congress and Border Patrol agents themselves.

Critics of the move warn the closures will undercut efforts to intercept drug and human traffickers in well-traveled corridors north of the U.S.-Mexico border. Though the affected stations are scattered throughout northern and central Texas, and three other states, the coverage areas still see plenty of illegal immigrant activity -- one soon-to-be-shuttered station in Amarillo, Texas, is right in the middle of the I-40 corridor; another in Riverside, Calif., is outside Los Angeles.






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