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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted May 02, 2011 08:49 PM |
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Quote:
I find it ironic that your avatar is that of a Dark elf then. 
I have no idea about what "irony" you're talking about
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted May 02, 2011 09:28 PM |
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Quote:
2. bring Isabel back to the game (?)
Don't even joke about that.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 02, 2011 09:31 PM |
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Maybe if we can kill her, we'd prevent H5 from happening !
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2011 09:35 PM |
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You complain about Ashan being the most unoriginal Heroes universe ever, and yet your avatar features the by far most unoriginal race in it - a dark elf. A race which is just straight ripped off from Warhammer.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 02, 2011 09:43 PM |
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Quote:
You complain about Ashan being the most unoriginal Heroes universe ever, and yet your avatar features the by far most unoriginal race in it - a dark elf. A race which is just straight ripped off from Warhammer.
That's not completely fair, the ripped off the whole matriarchal underground cavern living thing from DnD's drow! (drow being another word for Dark Elf)
So they didn't just ripp off GamesWorkshop, they ripped off Wizards of the Coast as well!
To be even more fair though, the whole fantasy genre more or less is constantly drawing inspiration from each other (to put it in a nice way) but we still love it despite this little bad habit of it... right? 
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted May 02, 2011 09:47 PM |
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Quote:
To be even more fair though, the whole fantasy genre more or less is constantly drawing inspiration from each other (to put it in a nice way) but we still love it despite this little bad habit of it... right?
Even the Heroes VI developers are willing to acknowledge that the H5 Dungeon was a carbon copy from Warhammer and should be avoided in future. You can count on us to ensure that if the Dungeon is ever back in H6, it will not rip off other franchises, at least not on such a scale.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 02, 2011 09:49 PM |
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Yeah... I mean... HV dungeon was... a bit much...
I'm surprised that nobody sued em for it.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 02, 2011 10:06 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 22:07, 02 May 2011.
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Cease and desist, baby!
Probably the reason why a few of the names/creatures ended up being slightly altered.
(Also I think the "Stealth Edit" function may be broken...)
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted May 03, 2011 07:16 AM |
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Disciples3 tried to copy HoMM instead of remaining true to it's roots - the result CRAPPY BUGGY game!
Let's hope Heroes6 is not trying to compete with Warcraft - otherwise.. well you know..
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Davy
Known Hero
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posted May 03, 2011 02:38 PM |
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Quote:
You complain about Ashan being the most unoriginal Heroes universe ever, and yet your avatar features the by far most unoriginal race in it - a dark elf. A race which is just straight ripped off from Warhammer.
well technically it has not to be a complete ripoff,since there are actually elves and dark elves in the mytholgoy.
But well I doubt,that they actually did the research and ripped it really just off xD.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted May 03, 2011 02:59 PM |
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Quote:
Disciples3 tried to copy HoMM instead of remaining true to it's roots - the result CRAPPY BUGGY game!
That was soul-crushing. One of my most beloved series turned into complete garbage.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 03, 2011 03:00 PM |
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Man Omega everytime I see you post anywhere I just want to give you a big hug.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted May 04, 2011 09:51 AM |
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I'm wondering, why people exactly think Ashan is more unoriginal than H2/H3 universe?
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 04, 2011 10:02 AM |
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Quote:
I'm wondering, why people exactly think Ashan is more unoriginal than H2/H3 universe?
That had some interesting sci-fi elements mixed in, though to be honest not everybody was too keen on those.
In the end, it is a fair point, it wasn't exactly a text-book case of a truly original setting.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 04, 2011 10:14 AM |
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Ahan is generic to the core while the old world was certainly not. But people who have no knowledge of it apart from the Heroes game are usually clueless about this. And it's not only about the sci-fi.
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted May 04, 2011 10:21 AM |
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Quote:
Ahan is generic to the core while the old world was certainly not. But people who have no knowledge of it apart from the Heroes game are usually clueless about this. And it's not only about the sci-fi.
I've heard that a hundred times. What I'm asking are specific details why exactly the previous universe was better.
So far I got one - sci-fi elements - that's a fair point.
I want to know because I'm not familiar with the old universe and I'd like to understand people's reasoning behind the claim.
There's also the problem of understanding what people regard as the "universe". Is it just the lore and history of the world, or the storyline or everything including factions, spells, creature lineups etc.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 04, 2011 10:26 AM |
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H2/H3 managed to tell their stories in a more... subtle way?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 04, 2011 10:32 AM |
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Long story (very) short...
A universe is pretty much everything, from the lore, through the characters, the factions and so on, to the smallest details like the expression of your party's bouncer who's trying to pull a magical sword out of a stone without $hiting his pants in the process.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 04, 2011 10:37 AM |
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Well, first off, Ashan has no real background and no game to support it, while Heroes 1/2/3/4 were backed up by the M&M games (HoMM is a spin-off of M&M). Ashan "could be" an interesting universe if there was some kind of RPG or even books to immerse the players.
For me, one of the most interesting part was that H2, H3, H3AB and MM6/7/8 were intertwined and even though there were some anachronisms, it had some epic feeling.
Another thing that makes Ashan bland are the stereotypical factions. They lack depth and are very boring. You also have the feeling that each faction lives on a territory surrounded by gigantic walls and that nothing happens between them at all, except when a demon points his fiery nose out of Sheogh and then all factions magically decide to gangbang the poor fellows ... and then hide behind their walls again.
At no point in H5, you have the feeling that there could be any "out-of-war times" relationships between the factions.
At least H6 seems to be changing some things, but I'm not sure it will be enough to make Ashan interesting :
- Orcs camps in the Griffin Duchy + friendship between Duke Slava and Kraal
- Scatha's bio : an elf among the Seven Cities then becoming the first sight of an elven necromancer
Ashan definately needs a M&M XI to show its potential instead of relying on MMH6's "RPG" side (which is an aberration).
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 04, 2011 11:14 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 11:16, 04 May 2011.
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The simple fact is the old setting is older.
Personally I'd like to say settings have a life cycle as well, I'm basing this on my observations of various games I've followed all the way through.
Let's start with Warcraft shall we?
Bear in mind, this is merely my opinion on Warcraft's story development.
Warcraft: Orcs and Humans.
Birth
The infancy stage of the setting, it's a simple premise with some plot but is still trying to figure itself out.
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness.
Growing up
Has decided on the continuity of the prequel but is itself still split story, the narritive becomes deeper and the plot evolves at a good pace and in a good way.
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos.
Matured
Again set up the contuinity of it's prequel, incorperating a lot of key events from both sides of the story, now has a clear and strong narritive centred around various characters that shape most of the story on-screen, plot evolves ever deeper and stronger.
World of Warcraft
Gray hairs
Begins tying up loose ends but struggles with the new format narritive starts to suffer from "villain of the week" to keep things flowing and setting up new threads to tie up later.
Makes a few out of character descisions but overall is still respectable.
World of Warcraft TBC
Slightly senile
Ties up loose ends quite nicely but is starting to forget where it came from, large retcons and continuity errors start becoming an issue.
World of Warcraft Wrath and Cataclysm.
Very senile
Don't think I need to explain this, Wrath and Cata both made some great calls but overall...the setting has been digging it's own grave since WoW, all that remains now is for it to either to reboot, start an alternate continuity or die horribly.
Yes there are plenty of other games to compare too, but most people have heard of (and keep comparing to and wailing on) Warcraft.
Personally, I'd say the old world got dumped around the Gray Hairs stage when it jumped ship to Axeoth trying to re-invent itself, like a bizzare mid-life crisis if you will.
Though I hear the quality of the story in HoMMIV was quite good despite that. (sadly I can only speculate on HoMMIV)
Ashan on the other hand was standing at it's birth in HoMMV but I think with Clash of Heroes and Dark Messiah may have done some growing up, I predict it will either continue to grow or reach maturity at HoMMVI.
HoMMVI's plot, at least from what we have gleaned, seems to understand the concept of pacing and subtelty (though then executing them properly is a different story) and that it can draw upon plenty of other conflicts then just the Demons or crazy Necromancers.
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This thread is pages long: 
