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krs
Famous Hero
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posted February 22, 2012 10:25 AM |
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This is what bothers me personally from the reactions the community had: the emphasis on the missing Town Screens which became a scape goat for UBI. While having no town screens was a HUUUGE mistake and 100% of players want them, if I would make a realistic list on what needs to be fixed in this game, that would be on a very low,low,low priority. And that is because there are tons of other things that tend to make the game unplayable in the long run. (multiplayer, RMG, mods... you know the list).
I would really like to see a summary on what the super fans involvement was. If there is such a thread please point me to it.
I am asking this because if you say they were aware, that does not come clear from the 2 videos UBI released. To me it just seemed you were just asking scripted questions that din not touch most of the major problems with the game. The general feeling from the videos was that while things are not great on release, on first expansion with town screens, rmg, and new factions it will be the greatest game ever.
If you can shed some light into the whole business...
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 22, 2012 10:54 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 11:01, 22 Feb 2012.
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Which videos? Those where they "answer" questions or those where they "present" something? In both cases, the videos were a joke - a bad joke which made nobody laugh. If I remember correctly, the Q&A videos were made by a couple of people on their own initiative and the "answers" there were just about the things which Ubisoft found convenient to answer - usually things which nobody or very few people cared about. The reaction after these videos was "OMFG, are you people f*****g with us?", you can check the old topics on the Ubisoft forum and here for confirmation (can't remember which exactly, sorry).
Regarding the town screens - here the chronology of the events should be taken into account. The lack of proper town screens was one of the first rumours that became wide-spread after the announcement of the development. If you remember, the first few months saw almost complete informational blackout and lack of advertisement which made many people nervous (including me) and nobody really knew anything specific about the game save the very few things which came with the announcement (excluding the insiders whose lips were sealed by NDA). The town screen thing however was the first bad rumour that was confirmed as a fact and that's why it was the first to generate such an outrage. Then a few more months of blackout followed and then came the beta. The three months of so-called testing resulted in plenty of comments (more negative than positive) and suggestions, however it was apparent even then that very few complaints apart from the bugs will be addressed. If you have seen the "official" beta sub-forum in the Ubisoft boards, you know what I'm talking about - a mess of epic proportions haunted by ONE active moderator who couldn't (and didn't) do s*** to organize the whole chaos so someone from Ubihole can use it for constructive purposes. They just didn't care and moreover, the game was so bug-ridden that the September (and then October) deadline probably made the bug-fixing a top priority - and it remained a top priority for two+ months after the release.
So, in short, it's not the lack of feedback that kept Ubihole from improving the game, it's the fact that it was broken when it was released and it still is to a large extent. We are not talking about polishing here, but about repairs. And it all boils down to little manpower, insufficient funds and terrible management. I guess the players have to revert back to old and proven techniques like death threats to get what they want.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted February 22, 2012 11:12 AM |
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Edited by krs at 11:12, 22 Feb 2012.
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Quote:
Which videos? Those where they "answer" questions or those where they "present" something? In both cases, the videos were a joke - a bad joke which made nobody laugh. If I remember correctly, the Q&A videos were made by a couple of people on their own initiative and the "answers" there were just about the things which Ubisoft found convenient to answer - usually things which nobody or very few people cared about. The reaction after these videos was "OMFG, are you people f*****g with us?", you can check the old topics on the Ubisoft forum and here for confirmation (can't remember which exactly, sorry).
Thank you for the replay. That was also my impression about those videos, but I also put some 1/3 of the blame on you, the super fans. I stand corrected!
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 22, 2012 11:36 AM |
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Edited by foxxxer at 11:37, 22 Feb 2012.
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@ SKPRIMUS
Quote:
…Any business trying to chase & accept every job even if they cannot do it properly or will make a big loss sounds naive, but it's ok because lets blame the client
I'm not quite sure how Ubisoft choose their developers. Whether announce a competition for the job or make an direct offer to the developer. If the Black Hole participated in the contest, then they have partially guilt too, but in both cases, Ubisoft are the ones who must decide which company is good to do the job and which not. Ubisoft have enough resources to research a small company such as how human resources they have, what’s the financial situation, whether they have an extensive library of codes, what graphics engine will be used for the game and so on. And here comes the question have they bothered to research BH or have chosen it just like that. If they have made a research, then they would have taken a big risk. If not - shows how much they care about the whole Heroes 6 project. Like other people said there are other games in the franchise, which are more profitable than Heores. In the era Ubisoft Heroes is the cornerstone for all other games in the franchise, that’s why they keep it still alive.
@ krs
We have 2 insiders in that board who are our connection with Ubisoft. They tell to Ubisoft what concern us. And that was almost during the whole developing process (after announcement). Ubi are aware about every issue. If you want some “summary on what the super fans involvement was” I can’t give it to you because there are to many threads, you have to dive deep in the Heroes 6+ Altar of Wishes and Heroes 6 - The New Beginning sections. The only one that comes to my mind is that. You have a lot to read. 
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted February 22, 2012 12:07 PM |
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@foxxxer (there's a xxx in your name), well yeah I also blame Ubi a lot for the quality of the game too. I feel we are talking different things here.
The topic (which is still only rumor) is about BHole not getting as much profit as they would have liked ==> for that they have mainly themselves to blame, not their client. If BHOle said in their proposal they can do it & be cheaper than companies XYZ & ubi said great & they got the contract ahead of companies XYZ & stuffed it up like it is now, then companies XYZ gets pissed off & BHole will have to take the loss.
ofc ubi actions may have contributed to BHOle's rumored loss, but still nowhere near the levels you or anyone else makes it out to be since a contract needs to be offered & accepted!
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 22, 2012 12:40 PM |
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Edited by foxxxer at 12:43, 22 Feb 2012.
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SKPRIMUS, as you said every company trying to chase and accept every job but as Ubisoft claim that they are respectful publisher, it’s normal to make right decisions when choose developers, right? That’s my point. I don’t care what the contract between Ibi and BH is. I just don’t want broken Heroes. For one you’re right it’s still only a rumor and hope to be a fake rumor. That game can be fixed at least to be playable. I have major issues with the game (mostly mechanics) but there are other people that like the new concept and wait only to be fixed. Speaking for myself I have been disappointed 3 times in row so I’m gonna wait for a sequel.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 22, 2012 01:20 PM |
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Quote:
This is what bothers me personally from the reactions the community had: the emphasis on the missing Town Screens which became a scape goat for UBI. While having no town screens was a HUUUGE mistake and 100% of players want them, if I would make a realistic list on what needs to be fixed in this game, that would be on a very low,low,low priority. And that is because there are tons of other things that tend to make the game unplayable in the long run. (multiplayer, RMG, mods... you know the list).
That's what I've been saying since ... well ... since DarkLord created his town screen petition (March 30th 2011). People didn't care about bugs, they only cared about their beloved town screens ... all in all, I'd say the community got the game they've been pleading for instead of getting the game we deserved. People simply set their priorities wrong, it's a bit late to complain.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted February 22, 2012 01:25 PM |
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Edited by SKPRIMUS at 09:50, 25 Feb 2012.
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@foxxxer, ok good that your point is that ubi should make right decisions in choosing developers, I agree wholeheartedly.
And if you don't care about the contract between Ibi & BH, then your opening words in this thread of "If the rumor is true I am really sorry for Black Hole..." is a bit misleading I think, because the contract conditions are at the very heart of the topic of the thread.
I don't intend to carry on with this debate until rumor confirmation.
I very much agree that ubi stuffed it up big time with H6 initial release, but I totally do not agree with blaming them for everything including some rumored loss by BHole. This is not really a thread for completely discussing the quality of the game. {but it is threatening to be!}
Bitula in the ubi forums said something in the similar thread about some things that can be guessed at...companies can easily hire 10+ poor quality peoplenot-so-good workers that, in total, cannot even do what one top quality personreally good worker (who really knows the job) can do.
ps. the game is very playable for those who don't have major gripes with missing features from previous games & don't mind playing online SP when the servers work
pps. where is that "official" beta sub-forum?
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted February 22, 2012 01:32 PM |
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RMG cannot be a top priority thing for initial release because the developer has to first understand the game a lot more in order to make a good one plus the game has to be somewhat semi-polished...no point getting a crappy RMG. RMG for first expansion is the right priority...unless no campaigns ofc (imo ofc)
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 22, 2012 03:01 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
This is what bothers me personally from the reactions the community had: the emphasis on the missing Town Screens which became a scape goat for UBI. While having no town screens was a HUUUGE mistake and 100% of players want them, if I would make a realistic list on what needs to be fixed in this game, that would be on a very low,low,low priority. And that is because there are tons of other things that tend to make the game unplayable in the long run. (multiplayer, RMG, mods... you know the list).
That's what I've been saying since ... well ... since DarkLord created his town screen petition (March 30th 2011). People didn't care about bugs, they only cared about their beloved town screens ... all in all, I'd say the community got the game they've been pleading for instead of getting the game we deserved. People simply set their priorities wrong, it's a bit late to complain.
You mean that we ultimately got better town screens?  Where?!!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 22, 2012 06:58 PM |
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My guess is that the commonfolk kinda hoped there would be no bugs in the final version of of the game.
Back in March.
Whereas most people already knew about Ubisoft's idea to not include town screens in H6 by that time.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted February 22, 2012 07:34 PM |
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I was under the impression that with the delayed launch to September there was some hope almost the whole Summer that town screens will be included.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 22, 2012 07:46 PM |
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No, there wasn't. They made it clear that the only town "screens" that we'll get will be the town windows as we see them now but some people were left with a different impression for reasons unknown to be (maybe trust in Ubisoft, oh jeez...). The last remainders of the confusion were cleared a few months before the release when they explicitly said "OK, we got it, you want real town screens but understand already that they are not top priority right now, maybe some time after the release...". And here we are. The town screens are not to blame for the sorry state of the game, they have never been a part of the pre-release works - or at least not a significant part.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted February 23, 2012 07:13 AM |
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Heroes 6 can be a great game, the graphics and speed with which to navigate between menus is cool. What I would like them to change/add:
- One extra rare resource (eg. red gems)
- Spell books (with magic guild to learn spells) (i.e. taking away the spells from the magic skill trees but still keeping these skill trees)
- Unique skills/abilities per faction (e.g. swarming gate for Inferno) (this should deepen the skill tree system)
- Take away shared creature pool growth
- Favourable adjustment to Luck skill
- Take away the area of control feature (not just a tick box, but actually removing the feature and the graphics re. the obelisks between lands - this divides the lands too much)
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 23, 2012 03:07 PM |
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Quote:
That's what I've been saying since ... well ... since DarkLord created his town screen petition (March 30th 2011). People didn't care about bugs, they only cared about their beloved town screens ... all in all, I'd say the community got the game they've been pleading for instead of getting the game we deserved. People simply set their priorities wrong, it's a bit late to complain.
What are you talking about? At the point when we started to really push UBI to create proper townscreens we were convinced by them that rest of the game will be polished.
Hell they pushed release date twice to polish the game. For all that we knew the rest of the game should run as smooth as butter. Nobody could predict that game would have so many bugs and faulty AI after so much development time.
And after all this time and after 3 patches bugs are still here and townscreens are not, so don't blame our priorities, blame incompetent developer and producer.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted February 23, 2012 03:15 PM |
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 23, 2012 03:25 PM |
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My tweets with @MightMagicGame:
- @MightMagicGame Where are townscreens? Where is next patch? What are you doing? Can someone show a sign of life for this game?
Feb 22, 6:27 AM via web
- @DVecanski Hi, work on townscreens is ongoing as well as on the coming patches. More info is to come very shortly
Feb 22, 6:37 AM via web
- Thank you for quick answer @MightMagicGame. What entire community asks is just a little more communication from official source.
Feb 22, 6:46 AM via web
- @DVecanski Yes, indeed. I've got more information recently and we are going to share it with you! Let us figure everything out first  !
Feb 22, 6:48 AM via web
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Falconian
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 23, 2012 06:24 PM |
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I couldn't care less about town screens tbh, but yeah it adds up to the rest.
In H6 they simplified A LOT of things... resources basically halved, mines linked to forts, castles share creatures, etc.
I feel like they wanted to make a Heroes version for kids.
I could overlook those if my favourite factions weren't nerfed into a complete joke... even if you get after the terrible creeping, there is no reward in the end.
On the other hand though, the UI and skill system are what I wanted to see in H5.
I didn't like that on level up you get to choose from skills chosen randomly (even if I can alter the chances in HeroClass, it's still random in the end), the fact you can choose your path feels good.
I just consider H6 an "arcade" version of Heroes.
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G0b1in
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 23, 2012 08:46 PM |
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No no no!
It's not the town screens that bother me....
It's not simplification and "streamlining" (talents, resources)...
It's not the bugs...
Not even the poor AI...
Nor is it poor faction balancing...
or mediocre and "grindy" campain...
or the fact that you can't have more than 2 heroes per race as "main" heroes...
It's not any single of these things that makes H6 mediocre game (instead of great)...
But it's ALL THIS THINGS PUT TOGETHER AND MORE
overall i feel like this is it for HEROES series - last chapter (unless some non-ubi company in distant future puts together H7 that has all of these issues fixed)
Well... It's been great series non the less and in time we will look back and remember H2, H3 & H5 (maybe even H1) like we do when we hear Baldur's Gate or Age of Wonders ... oh what great times there were where when we were young and played Heroes of might and Magic !
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Kivo
Famous Hero
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posted February 24, 2012 12:12 AM |
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I really doubt that ubisoft would sell Might and magic to another company... they have clash of heroes and heroes kingdoms which are linked with it. If they would sell only the Heroes of might and magic withou any other of their games it would be a bit strange :/ Well i hope they wont and that mmh6 will improve! Any news about BH?
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