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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Great quotes and monologues
Thread: Great quotes and monologues This thread is 18 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 24, 2015 06:03 PM
Edited by artu at 01:26, 25 Jul 2015.

To understand this quote clearly, one must note that the writer uses the word religion in a broader perspective, he defines it as
a system of human norms and values that is founded on a belief in a superhuman order. So, Communism and it's deterministic laws of historical progress, Nazism with it's claims of biological superiority and even the concept of human rights, if they are considered intrinsic, are all religious systems. They are imaginary orders, that are brought into reality because masses agree with them, they are not scientific facts that exist with or without humans but they are not simply lies either, he defines them as inter-subjective:


The inter-subjective is something that exists within the communication network linking the subjective consciousness of many individuals. If a single individual changes his or her beliefs, or even dies, it is of little importance. However, if most individuals in the network die or change their beliefs, the inter-subjective phenomenon will mutate or disappear. Inter-subjective phenomena are neither malevolent frauds nor insignificant charades. They exist in a different way from physical phenomena such as radioactivity, but their impact on the world may still be enormous. Many of history’s most important drivers are inter-subjective: Law, money, gods, nations.

The belief in the growing global pie eventually turned revolutionary. In 1776 the Scottish economist Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations, probably the most important economics manifesto of all time. In the eighth chapter of its first volume, Smith made the following novel argument: when a landlord, a weaver, or a shoemaker has greater profits than he needs to maintain his own family, he uses the surplus to employ more assistants, in order to further increase his profits. The more profits he has, the more assistants he can employ. It follows that an increase in the profits of private entrepreneurs is the basis for the increase in collective wealth and prosperity. This may not strike you as very original, because we all live in a capitalist world that takes Smith’s argument for granted. We hear variations on this theme every day in the news. Yet Smith’s claim that the selfish human urge to increase private profits is the basis for collective wealth is one of the most revolutionary ideas in human history – revolutionary not just from an economic perspective, but even more so from a moral and political perspective. What Smith says is, in fact, that greed is good, and that by becoming richer I benefit everybody, not just myself. Egoism is altruism. Smith taught people to think about the economy as a ‘win-win situation’, in which my profits are also your profits. Not only can we both enjoy a bigger slice of pie at the same time, but the increase in your slice depends upon the increase in my slice. If I am poor, you too will be poor since I cannot buy your products or services. If I am rich, you too will be enriched since you can now sell me something. Smith denied the traditional contradiction between wealth and morality, and threw open the gates of heaven for the rich. Being rich meant being moral. In Smiths story, people become rich not by despoiling their neighbours, but by increasing the overall size of the pie. And when the pie grows, everyone benefits. The rich are accordingly the most useful and benevolent people in society, because they turn the wheels of growth for everyone’s advantage. All this depends, however, on the rich using their profits to open new factories and hire new employees, rather than wasting them on non-productive activities. Smith therefore repeated like a mantra the maxim that ‘When profits increase, the landlord or weaver will employ more assistants’ and not ‘When profits increase, Scrooge will hoard his money in a chest and take it out only to count his coins.’ A crucial part of the modern capitalist economy was the emergence of a new ethic, according to which profits ought to be reinvested in production. This brings about more profits, which are again reinvested in production, which brings more profits, et cetera ad infinitum. Investments can be made in many ways: enlarging the factory, conducting scientific research, developing new products. Yet all these investments must somehow increase production and translate into larger profits. In the new capitalist creed, the first and most sacred commandment is: ‘The profits of production must be reinvested in increasing production.’

That’s why capitalism is called ‘capitalism’. Capitalism distinguishes ‘capital’ from mere ‘wealth’. Capital consists of money, goods and resources that are invested in production. Wealth, on the other hand, is buried in the ground or wasted on unproductive activities. A pharaoh who pours resources into a nonproductive pyramid is not a capitalist. A pirate who loots a Spanish treasure fleet and buries a chest full of glittering coins on the beach of some Caribbean island is not a capitalist. But a hard-working factory hand who reinvests part of his income in the stock market is.
.....

The modern capitalist economy must constantly increase production if it is to survive, like a shark that must swim or suffocate. Yet it’s not enough just to produce. Somebody must also buy the products, or industrialists and investors alike will go bust. To prevent this catastrophe and to make sure that people will always buy whatever new stuff industry produces, a new kind of ethic appeared: Consumerism.
Most people throughout history lived under conditions of scarcity. Frugality was thus their watchword. The austere ethics of the Puritans and Spartans are but two famous examples. A good person avoided luxuries, never threw food away, and patched up torn trousers instead of buying a new pair. Only kings and nobles allowed themselves to renounce such values publicly and conspicuously flaunt their riches. Consumerism sees the consumption of ever more products and services as a positive thing. It encourages people to treat themselves, spoil themselves, and even kill themselves slowly by overconsumption. Frugality is a disease to be cured. You don’t have to look far to see the consumer ethic in action – just read the back of a cereal box. Here’s a quote from a box of one of my favourite breakfast cereals, produced by an Israeli firm, Telma:

Sometimes you need a treat. Sometimes you need a little extra energy. There are times to watch your weight and times when you’ve just got to have something … right now! Telma offers a variety of tasty cereals just for you – treats without remorse.

The same package sports an ad for another brand of cereal called Health Treats:

Health Treats offers lots of grains, fruits and nuts for an experience that combines taste, pleasure and health. For an enjoyable treat in the middle of the day, suitable for a healthy lifestyle. A real treat with the wonderful taste of more[emphasis in the original].

Throughout most of history, people were likely to be have been repelled rather than attracted by such a text. They would have branded it as selfish, decadent and morally corrupt. Consumerism has worked very hard, with the help of popular psychology (‘Just do it!’) to convince people that indulgence is good for you, whereas frugality is self-oppression. It has succeeded. We are all good consumers. We buy countless products that we don’t really need, and that until yesterday we didn’t know existed.

How can we square the consumerist ethic with the capitalist ethic of the business person, according to which profits should not be wasted, and should instead be reinvested in production? It’s simple. As in previous eras, there is today a division of labour between the elite and the masses. In medieval Europe, aristocrats spent their money carelessly on extravagant luxuries, whereas peasants lived frugally, minding every penny. Today, the tables have turned. The rich take great care managing their assets and investments, while the less well heeled go into debt buying cars and televisions they don’t really need.The capitalist and consumerist ethics are two sides of the same coin, a merger of two commandments. The supreme commandment of the rich is ‘Invest!’ The supreme commandment of the rest of us is ‘Buy!’ The capitalist-consumerist ethic is revolutionary in another respect. Most previous ethical systems presented people with a pretty tough deal. They were promised paradise, but only if they cultivated compassion and tolerance,overcame craving and anger, and restrained their selfish interests. This was too tough for most. The history of ethics is a sad tale of wonderful ideals that nobody can live up to. Most Christians did not imitate Christ, most Buddhists failed to follow Buddha, and most Confucians would have caused Confucius a temper tantrum.

In contrast, most people today successfully live up to the capitalist-consumerist ideal. The new ethic promises paradise on condition that the rich remain greedy and spend their time making more money, and that the masses give free rein to their cravings and passions – and buy more and more. This is the first religion in history whose followers actually do what they are asked to do. How, though, do we know that we’ll really get paradise in return? We’ve seen it on television.

.....

Capital and politics influence each other to such an extent that their relations are hotly debated by economists, politicians and the general public alike. Ardent capitalists tend to argue that capital should be free to influence politics, but politics should not be allowed to influence capital. They argue that when governments interfere in the markets, political interests cause them to make unwise investments that result in slower growth. For example, a government may impose heavy taxation on industrialists and use the money to give lavish unemployment benefits, which are popular with voters. In the view of many business people, it would be far better if the government left the money with them. They would use it, they claim, to open new factories and hire the unemployed. In this view, the wisest economic policy is to keep politics out of the economy, reduce taxation and government regulation to a minimum, and allow market forces free rein to take their course. Private investors, unencumbered by political considerations, will invest their money where they can get the most profit, so the way to ensure the most economic growth – which will benefit everyone, industrialists and workers – is for the government to do as little as possible. This free-market doctrine is today the most common and influential variant of the capitalist creed. The most enthusiastic advocates of the free market criticise military adventures abroad with as much zeal as welfare programmes at home. They offer governments the same advice that Zen masters offer initiates: just do nothing. But in its extreme form, belief in the free market is as naive as belief in Santa Claus. There simply is no such thing as a market free of all political bias. The most important economic resource is trust in the future, and this resource is constantly threatened by thieves and charlatans. Markets by themselves offer no protection against fraud, theft and violence. It is the job of political systems to ensure trust by legislating sanctions against cheats and to establish and support police forces, courts and jails which will enforce the law. When kings fail to do their jobs and regulate the markets properly, it leads to loss of trust, dwindling credit and economic depression. That was the lesson taught by the Mississippi Bubble of 1719, and anyone who forgot it was reminded by the US housing bubble of 2007, and the ensuing credit crunch and recession.


- Yuval Harari - Sapiens, A Brief History of Humankind

____________
i challenge ANYONE to prove me wrong. you CANNOT. -fred

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 31, 2015 05:15 AM

Artists are the monks of the bourgeois state. -Cesare Pavese

____________
i challenge ANYONE to prove me wrong. you CANNOT. -fred

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 11, 2015 07:43 PM

"We try not to order society via our lizard brains, and that's a good thing. Now, if we were to govern by my lizard brain, that would be perfectly acceptable, because my deep-seated hates and fears and instincts are all reasonable and proper. The problem is all those other damn lizard brains out there, worn by lunatics with different hates and fears and instincts... When we unleash the lizard brains - when we give into the temptation to ignore the distinction between speech and assault, between insulting and attacking - we will find to our great regret that the majority of lizard brains don't work like the ones we see on our carefully moderated Twitter feed. Most lizard brains are really ****ing scary. For every lizard brain cheering when someone we hate gets chased down the threat by a screaming mob, there's two our three lizard brains ready to cheer when that happens to someone we agree with. I am more afraid of the consequences of normalizing and condoning this behavior than I am gleeful about the humiliation of an awful person." - Ken White
____________
Eccentric Opinion

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted August 11, 2015 09:19 PM

Sometimes the reason good things are not happening to you is because you are the good thing that needs to happen to other people.
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted August 12, 2015 01:51 AM

^ Agree completely.
____________
Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 12, 2015 10:20 AM

Work alone isn't enough for me and mine;
we know how to break our backs, but the great dream
Of my fathers was to be good at doing nothing.

Cesare Pavese
____________
i challenge ANYONE to prove me wrong. you CANNOT. -fred

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted August 12, 2015 04:07 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 16:24, 12 Aug 2015.

Quote:
Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground.   You said to yourself: I will ascend to the heavens; I will set up my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of the gods' assembly, in the remotest parts of the North.

I will ascend above the highest clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.

But you will be brought down to Sheol into the deepest regions of the Pit.

Those who see you will stare at you; they will look closely at you: Is this the man who caused the earth to tremble, who shook the kingdoms,

____________
Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 02, 2015 08:45 PM

"When you see politicians saying dumb things, remember that these politicians are not fools. They are responding rationally to the incentives before them. They say dumb things because they expect voters want to hear dumb things. When you see that voters want to hear dumb things, remember that the voters are only foolish because they are responding rationally to the incentives before them. How we vote matters, but for each individual person, how she votes does not. Thus, most individuals vote as if very little is at stake." - Jason Brennan
____________
Eccentric Opinion

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted October 15, 2015 04:37 PM

Without freedom of choice, there is no creativity. Without creativity there is no life. ( James T. Kirk, Star Trek TOS )

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Herry
Herry


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
posted October 15, 2015 06:54 PM

Actually, there is, to an extent. Restricted choice can make someone get the best of whatever he can get, using creativity, but that really depends.
____________

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted October 15, 2015 07:15 PM

Yes, it depends. But I agree with the quote, specifically the second part.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted October 16, 2015 12:28 AM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 00:31, 16 Oct 2015.

I'd prefer it if it said 'without creativity there's no humanity' to make it more accurate. As in that is the essence of being human, rather than the essence of life.
____________
Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted October 16, 2015 12:39 AM

In context, he was talking about a society that was controlled entirely by a computer and brainwashed "lawgivers". So, yeah, more like humanity and what humans can create.

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Hadji020
Hadji020


Adventuring Hero
The Underestimated
posted October 16, 2015 06:01 AM
Edited by Hadji020 at 06:31, 16 Oct 2015.

"Fat people are harder to kidnap"


Ok   ok... a better one

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything"
By: Malcolm X
____________
.::True Rebels Walk Alone::.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 16, 2015 11:17 AM

Hadji020 said:
"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything"
By: Malcolm X


i have trouble thinking a nihilist would be easily led. he'd have to invest care into whatever a cause would be; which means, he wouldn't be a nihilist.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 16, 2015 11:21 AM

But a deliberate nihilism is also a very strongly opinionated position. I don't think that's the type of person X refers to.
____________
i challenge ANYONE to prove me wrong. you CANNOT. -fred

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 16, 2015 11:49 AM

it's just what's first associated in my mind, when i think of someone who "stands for nothing". i'm aware of what he's referring to. i want to expand on the intricacies of why i think the quote is faulty, but i'm not optimally functioning atm; my thoughts are whirlwinding instead of forming completely. so i'll get back to you later, if i remember. i need sleep, lol.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 26, 2015 11:51 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 23:52, 26 Oct 2015.

"The Mind has a different relish, as well as the Palate; and you will as fruitlessly endeavour to delight all Man with Riches or Glory, (which yet some Men place their Happiness in) as you would satisfy all men's Hunger with Cheese or Lobsters; which, though very agreeable and delicious fare to some, are to others extremely nauseous and offensive: And many People would with reason preferr the griping of an hungry Belly, to those Dishes, which are a Feast to others. Hence it was, I think, that the Philosophers of old did in vain enquire, whether the Summum bonum consisted in Riches, or bodily Delights, or Virtue, or Contemplation: And they might have as reasonably disputed, whether the best Relish were to be found in Apples, Plumbs or Nuts; and have divided themselves into Sects upon it." - John Locke

I'm not the only one who makes food analogies.
____________
Eccentric Opinion

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted October 27, 2015 04:16 PM


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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted November 26, 2015 09:14 PM

Quote:
All, everything that I understand, I understand only because I love. - Leo Tolstoy



This is literally the answer I've been searching for subconsciously for so long. I've often ran into trouble when trying to deal with people, or think of appropriate courses of action when collaborating with others, or my general approach to things. Much of it came from them doing unexpected things, stupid things, things that they themselves didn't understand (turned up late, lack of motivation, contradicting themselves etc list goes on and on) or generally surprising me with other forms of sheer stupidity. Anyway, my solution has been to either help them improve to an acceptable level, or to cut all my dependance on them or vise versa, I simply couldn't work with people that boggle my mind.

All cause I didn't understand them, and it did bother me, still does, I simply cannot comprehend what kind of twisted thought process would produce such a character/action, boggles the mind, so I resigned myself to either getting them to fall in line or stamp such people out of my life ASAP. I'm changing, and I now desire every bit to understand people, cause I believe in a Nationalist Socialist state where everyone has worth, not a fascist state where the strong (as the rich in capitalist state) hold authority, and in order to be able to achieve this I have to be understanding and find the correct method of dealing with/making productive use out of the low-intelligent section of my population. (oh god there are many).
____________
Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."

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