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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 20, 2012 03:27 PM |
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 20, 2012 03:31 PM |
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Quote:
Beheshti said he was hospitalized for three days. The Iranian cleric said it was his religious duty to apply the principle of “commanding right and forbidding wrong,” and that he would continue to do so even after living through what he called “the worst day of my life.”
Despite this news being quite funny, the bolded parts just support my claims in this thread.
It seems that people cant hold religion for themselves.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted September 20, 2012 03:32 PM |
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Hilarious! To be beaten down by a woman in a country ruled by men. His male pride must have been severely damaged. Maybe it was one of those iranian female ninjas I have heard about.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted September 20, 2012 03:50 PM |
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"oh no you did NOT just say this outfit doesn't match my shoes..." *snap*
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 20, 2012 04:40 PM |
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted September 20, 2012 04:54 PM |
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Quote:
What about an unintentional JC caricature?
Christ alias Gorilla
Not really the thread for this... but still...
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 20, 2012 05:11 PM |
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Quote:
The Iranian cleric said it was his religious duty to apply the principle of “commanding right and forbidding wrong,” and that he would continue to do so even after living through what he called “the worst day of my life.”
ooooh... poor you 
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 20, 2012 07:03 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 19:04, 20 Sep 2012.
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Quote:
So? Defend your beliefs then, nobody is objecting against that (except, of course, you become medieval in their defense).
I know what you meant here Zenofex so don't take offense but I don't think anyone can easily defend their beliefs no matter what they are comprised off, at least not clearly. So much about beliefs (in my case anyway)is composed of many fragments of historical teaching, shared experiences (and the evaluations and impacts), along with a legion of best-fit conclusions resulting from a mountain of topics and interactions.
Quote:
I’m talking about western religions' built-in urge to spread and the conflict that may arise when this urge encounters minds which are not exactly susceptible to conversion. However, it's very likely that you'll misunderstand me so I'll add some side notes:
On the contrary, I do understand and <imo> the Church has misguided the masses about the issue behind this result. I'm no Church leader but I can still offer an opinion on what I believe to be an error.
@Corribus & All for that matter
For a few lines, I will talk about Christianity, but only as a back ground to what I believe is "partly" at fault with how Faith is seen by non-believers, therefore it has a valid impact concerning any religion including Islam.
Jesus gave "The Great Commission" to his disciples "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations. baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age"
I want to point out two words "make disciples" and I know they are of great importance to the Muslim believer because in the broadest sense, apparently, the radicals believe they're supposed to convert the world.
"Make disciples" is not "forced conversion", even though when the bible was not in the people's hands the Church for various reasons did as much. Power and wealth were duel pillars of the Medieval church; because its followers did not have the words of Christ to read. Had they have, <imo>Luther's revolt would have come much sooner. Note; the Reformation only began when it did; when Luther and his contempories possessed the original Greek-texts.
Very quickly, Christ did not force Himself on anyone. I will cite one reference that will show His Spirit on this subject. After leaving a village that did not receive Him; James and John asked; "Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from Heaven and consume them? Jesus replied; "You do not know what kind of Spirit you are of, for the Son of Man did not come to destroy lives but to save them". This was no tiny rebuke. It is my belief that if the printing press had been in heavy use say before 1050, there would have been no Crusades three decades later...anywhere.
What happened then was <imo>a clear example of what Paul warned about in Romans-10; "zeal but not according to knowledge". Mind you this is "ignorance" which is common for all of us at times. However, when not knowing/understanding is followed by a militant intent?... then it quickly loses all natural innocence and also naturally overrides any tolerance that a typical outsider might hold.
I'm not saying there is only one cause for the today's turmoil but much of the Middle-east is very poor, so "maybe" once again, "people are followers and not readers". Putting complete trust in leaders and abandoning personal responsibility for their own thoughts and actions, (even in other human-interests like politics, movements, unions etc) seldom works out well. Original ideas or purposes are often ignored or betrayed and usually it's greed in some form or another, most often power or wealth.
From what little I have read of Muhammad's own words I believe History is repeating itself, that is, if texts like the following are held as true examples of canon teaching by Muslims.
Quote:
Wiki, Many Muslim scholars believe that Quranic verses such as "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error" (Quran 2:256) and (Quran 18:29) show that Islam prohibits forced conversion towards people of any religion.
I believe that whatever a person believes to be important for life, should be seen in that person's actions and defined with words when asked. Unfortunately, it not the best advice for international communications but I still think a true diplomat needs to stay as close to that mindset as they possibly can.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 20, 2012 07:38 PM |
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well, the current problem isn't about forced conversions, but the fact they feel insulted. it's quite different.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 20, 2012 08:36 PM |
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I know. The video bit has happened since this thread opened and I'm still foolishly on topic The forced conversion is part of the beliefs of some of the extremists.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 20, 2012 09:56 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:58, 20 Sep 2012.
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Quote:
The forced conversion is part of the beliefs of some of the extremists.
Today, yes they are. Historically, they were the norm many times and places. Which is quite understandable since there were no basic human rights. You interpret your book with your ages' values, back in, say 16th century, they interpreted it with their ages' values. Today there are muslims who claim Quran is a feminist book.(Usually as a defense against the woman issues of islamic countries.)And trust me, if you search for what you want to find in a book, i mean if your searching method is based on trying to find what you wish, you'll sooner or later find it. The thing is, people didn't extract feminism out of the Quran, feminism established in the industrialised societies and spread around. Nobody saw feminism in Quran in 728 or 1245. It is easy for a person of faith to see what they want to see in their book since the language is usually metaphorical and the books are collages of so many pieces rather than the embodiment of a single main thought.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 21, 2012 04:33 PM |
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Quote:
And trust me, if you search for what you want to find in a book, i mean if your searching method is based on trying to find what you wish, you'll sooner or later find it.
You're preaching to the choir here but you're absolutely correct. I learned that no matter what I was wanting to learn or understand, that I needed to cleanse or clear-out (the cleansing-breath of child-birth is a similar effort) first before reading text. I also had to be wise enough to recognize that their were times that I should not bother because I was too bothered.<L> I've put down many a novel because "Mitch was dead? but the last thing I remembered was he was eating a fine meal". Must have been the salad!
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 21, 2012 06:22 PM |
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 21, 2012 06:58 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 19:18, 21 Sep 2012.
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Quote:
Love the Prophet Day ends with 17 dead in Pakistan.
I sometimes wish the EU was communist. I would love to see how masses of nutcases would riot and pillage against tanks...
An attack to an embassy is directly an attack to the state. And I hate to see how the current US administration apologizes when there is nothing to apologize for. If I was in charge of the US, I would remove embassies and send an aircraft carrier to replace that.
Really, when I hear this, it boils me with anger:
Quote:
Reporting from the city of Freiburg, Germany, Nick Spicer said, "Several hundred came to express their feelings of dignity and love for the Prophet".
Feelings of dignity and love? Is this a joke? Is this trolling?
They came there to express denial and intolerance.
Whats next, lets make a support rally for every butthurt person in the internet? I wonder when they start rioting and claiming jihad for love and dignity.
I love how hypocritical these puppets are. They kill and burn and torch everything and yet they claim dignity and love?
These people are not even in the right mind when they burn embassies because some anonymous guy posted a video on youtube. And youtube is what? An international video streaming operator?
At least the authorities in france disallowed this "Gathering".
edit: Disregard the message of the video. The things obama says are more unsettling. They are mostly fumb and false
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 21, 2012 07:05 PM |
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Quote:
An attack to an embassy is directly an attack to the state. And I hate to see how the current US administration apologizes when there is nothing to apologize for. If I was in charge of the US, I would remove embassies and send an aircraft carrier to replace that.
It's irritating to watch. No response. No retaliation. Just apologies and denials. My favorite part of the Libya mess is how the White House stated it was spontaneous even though reports stated some assailants were armed with RPGs.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted September 21, 2012 07:23 PM |
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Quote:
Feelings of dignity and love? Is this a joke? Is this trolling?
They came there to express denial and intolerance.
No, actually the German marches were sort of one-time things that were actual demonstrations that Muslim peoples could declare their faith peacefully. 
And if we (The USA) bombed countries with extremest nutjobs who attacked us into the dirt, the list of countries that would not exist would include: Italy, Germany, Japan, Vietnam, Sudan, Egypt, South Africa, Russia, Ukraine, Iran, Afghanistan, Serbia, Seria, Iraq, Pakistan, etc, etc. One does not destroy a population because one is annoyed with a people or attacked. The governments themselves are not attacking us, so for now we are attempting to make the disorganized mob happy so that they just go home. If they won't do it, then it's their government's job to handle them, not ours.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 21, 2012 07:42 PM |
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Quote:
No, actually the German marches were sort of one-time things that were actual demonstrations that Muslim peoples could declare their faith peacefully.
You did not get my point. No matter how "Peaceful" they are. The point of the demonstration is a display of denial and intolerance.
You cant simply make a gathering because somebody in the internet made a joke about your fatih. This is absurd.
Quote:
The governments themselves are not attacking us,
I dont see that aplogizing is the way to "Defend" your embassies.
There is nothing to apologize for and its the burden of the host state to provide security and ease up the riots.
At least the US embassies should be closed in these countries.
Quote:
so for now we are attempting to make the disorganized mob happy so that they just go home.
Disorganized? I could bet that these "Mass" riotes are state sponsored. Again, it is the state that should ease up the riots, not the state which the embassy belongs to.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 21, 2012 08:18 PM |
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not one of the muslims I know said anything about it. I asked one of them, and she didnt't even know what happened (she heard of the videos, but not of the riots)
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted September 21, 2012 08:30 PM |
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Quote:
You did not get my point. No matter how "Peaceful" they are. The point of the demonstration is a display of denial and intolerance.
You cant simply make a gathering because somebody in the internet made a joke about your faith. This is absurd.
Demonstrations can be for any reason you can think of, what are you going on about? And while I agree that the reasoning might be a little screwy, that does not mean that it's a celebration of intolerance.
Quote:
There is nothing to apologize for and its the burden of the host state to provide security and ease up the riots.
And it's also their job to deal with their citizens. If the US sends troops to deal with these protesters, it will be seen as an act of war. And as we are trying to get out of wars in the middle east...
Quote:
At least the US embassies should be closed in these countries.
They are, or did you not see those points in the news article?
Quote:
Disorganized? I could bet that these "Mass" riots are state sponsored.
I didn't know that you believed in conspiracy theories.  Until such a time as there is actual evidence of the government sponsoring and implementing an attack, all that thoughts like this are is idle speculation.
Edit:
Quote:
Again, it is the state that should ease up the riots, not the state which the embassy belongs to.
*COUGHCOUGHCOUGHCOUGHCOUGH*
Quote:
it's their government's job to handle them, not ours.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 21, 2012 08:37 PM |
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The governement is indirectly sponsoring every fanatic and mass demonstration by not fulfilling his role. What is better for an incompetent governement than seeing all people in the street manifesting for something else than they should? They don't have jobs, they don't have access to universal culture, they don't have hope. Yet they don't see who is the only guilty about their misery.
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Era II mods and utilities
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This thread is pages long: 
