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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 02, 2013 10:57 AM |
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Edited by artu at 11:08, 02 Jun 2013.
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We're drifting away from the topic but to sum it up:
Quote:
Nope. Look at any non-religion related thread and if religion is introduced 99% of the time it is by a person hostile towards religion who feels the need to constantly take jabs at religion.
Well, the threads are indeed here and I'm not the one with the reputation. Maybe, the problem is what you consider as taking a jab. For example, if marriage is on the table, saying monogamy is historically older than Christianity, it was there before it and will be there probably after it, is not taking a jab. It is pointing out a plain historical fact and taking a quite reasonable guess based on that fact. Remember what you turned that into? So before you start pointing fingers at people, I suggest looking in the mirror.
Quote:
You are making no sense. I've journeyed far on my spiritual journey and changed opinions as I've learned and understood more. Atheists are locked into one static position. "There is no god because no god exists!" No truth seeking at all there.
For the 100th time, there is no God because there is no valid reason or any necessity to assume one. Scientists say they CAN explain the universe coming into existence within limits of scientific knowledge. You, on the other hand, believe in a magical creature that is the equivalent of unicorns or genies. Your kind of God is especially anthropomorphic and clearly based on mythology. You claim universe can't begin by itself (when today, physicists whose job is to study that, strongly say otherwise) and yet although you don't believe a physical entity, dimensions of time and space can't happen out of nowhere, you have no problem imagining a creature with a personality that comes out of nowhere. The funniest part is, your so called spiritual journey is totally based on cultural heritage and if you had been born in India instead of Texas, you would be defending Krishna the way you defend Jesus now with the same blind conviction.
Put aside all of that, when it comes to truth seeking, I CAN change my mind if someone comes up with a convincing argument about God. Yet, the concept is so primitive and childish, the chances are overwhelmingly slim. You however, are guaranteed to never change your mind because Your position is locked by your dogma: You are not ALLOWED to commit the sin of thinking there is no God. Your religion tells you, that is the devil whispering in your ear. That's right, in your "truth seeking" religion some ideas are labeled from the beginning as evil, even to consider them is a crime. What a free thinking journey to look upon!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 12, 2013 06:25 PM |
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Finally, a not censored survey from UK. All aspects are analyzed, all aspects show negative impact. The religious belonging is not specified but this is only a detail, it is well known where are most of them from.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 12, 2013 07:58 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 20:02, 12 Jul 2013.
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Salamandre said:
Finally, a not censored survey from UK. All aspects are analyzed, all aspects show negative impact. The religious belonging is not specified but this is only a detail, it is well known where are most of them from.
That report is irrelevant to this thread.
Your link is only a report that states some arguments against immigrants, which sound pretty valid to me. But that isnt news actually. Everyone could guess what a mass of unskilled people can cause.
That has nothing got to do with the demographic of the immigrants or their faith unfortunately. But anyway, was an interesting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted July 12, 2013 08:28 PM |
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Except that if you read the 2359 english comments to that article, you see that muslim issue is brought before the second page and from then they go berserk.
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gnomes2169
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Duke of the Glade
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posted July 12, 2013 09:43 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Except that if you read the 2359 english comments to that article, you see that muslim issue is brought before the second page and from then they go berserk.
... Which has no bearing on the article itself and is rather obviously an example of racial/ cultural tension. So your proof is...?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted July 12, 2013 09:49 PM |
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Gnomes, EU problems with immigration is an euphemism. EU has problems with the muslim immigration, not with "immigration". If I still need to bring arguments for such obvious fact...
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gnomes2169
Honorable
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Duke of the Glade
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posted July 12, 2013 10:10 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Gnomes, EU problems with immigration is an euphemism. EU has problems with the muslim non-german immigration, not with "immigration". If I still need to bring arguments for such obvious fact...
Honestly, I have seen complaints about immigrants from every single country in the EU on this board and others, and the only ethnicity/ country not complained about is German. The EU does have a problem with all kinds of immigrants, though immigrants who come from Muslim countries very well may be "extra special" problems due to the rapidity of their flow. But trying to say that they are the only possible group that could be complained about or that they are the only ones causing problems is not accurate, which your link takes into account. So once again, where is your proof, your evidence and is it credible?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 12, 2013 10:31 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:32, 12 Jul 2013.
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I'm no fan of Muslims when they go into culture shock and transform into uber-conservative snows who keep talking about how this and that is Satan but to be fair, let's remember a simple fact here: Europe takes in immigrants because it needs them. Its economy needs a young population and cheap labor and in major countries in Europe, the native population don't have much kids anymore. In some countries the population is decreasing. (Which is not necessarily a bad thing but contradicts with capitalist principle that business should always expand. So it needs new workers AND customers.)
The ones commenting are small folk who just witness everyday culture conflicts, small business competition and other problems mentioned in the article. But they don't see the bigger picture and treat the problem like their government is made of angels whose only intention is to help those poor immigrants. No government does that for no reason especially if there is such a public reaction.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 13, 2013 02:35 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 02:36, 13 Jul 2013.
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Salamandre said:
Gnomes, EU problems with immigration is an euphemism. EU has problems with the muslim immigration, not with "immigration".
weirdly I read quite a bunch about EU problems, and they never talk about muslims. that must be the argument of political parties which can't admit they are wrong and can do little more than spread fear and hatred...
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Zenofex
Responsible
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 13, 2013 07:03 AM |
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Europe has not problems with immigration but with different living standards in what should be a common economical structure. Not so far back in the past the Poles for example were the terror of Western Europe and especially UK because every low-level worker expected that half of the country will emigrate to his country and take his job for half the salary or even less. When Bulgaria and Romania join the Schengen Area, I fully expect the same anti-Bulgarian and anti-Romanian outcry that has been observed with other countries in the past (it's rather visible even at the moment). Same will apply to every new entry which "threatens" the employment in certain sectors of certain Western countries. The truth is, the drama is never so serious as people present it.
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Salamandre
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posted July 13, 2013 09:11 AM |
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This is like saying "I have no problems with coffee, but with caffeine". Of course the muslim immigration provokes cultural tensions dues to incompatible living standards, they don't come from thin air. Saying immigration is not a problem is contradicted by recent actions of almost all concerned governments-the english survey being an exceptional event without precedent-.
Do we realize that a socialist government banning burka, therefore stigmatizing a minority and handcuffing a religion is as unreal as the Pope agreeing on abortion, yet they HAD to do it? Today, it boils down to a simple fact: a government which continues to deny the muslim immigration major problem is condemned to lose next elections, and they know it.
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GunFred
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posted July 13, 2013 11:52 AM |
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Edited by GunFred at 11:53, 13 Jul 2013.
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Fauch said:
Salamandre said:
Gnomes, EU problems with immigration is an euphemism. EU has problems with the muslim immigration, not with "immigration".
weirdly I read quite a bunch about EU problems, and they never talk about muslims. that must be the argument of political parties which can't admit they are wrong and can do little more than spread fear and hatred...
That is very true and these fake politicians are just hooligans in nice suits who make a political career through fearmongering and hatred. Not too different from Hitler in his time and Europe will lose once these parties take over nations. And the xenophobes who vote for these parties are either cowards with cultural doomsday delusions or spoiled, lazy and violent brats who want everything for themselves for minimum effort. It is quite pathetic...
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 13, 2013 11:55 AM |
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Europe is nowhere near a land of freedom and acceptance that the EU claims. And France is the worst offender.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 13, 2013 12:44 PM |
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Drakon-Deus: Whaaaaaaaaaat?
Anyway, I think many of the problems Salamandre describes are not caused by immigration itself, but by other factors. Labour market regulation (especially related to wages) and access to european wellfare systems increase unemployment among unqualified immigrant groups. Multiculturalist policies turn people against each other and cause a rise in xenophobia and conflict when governments start favoring certain culture.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 13, 2013 12:47 PM |
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The way they treat Roms and muslims... is unacceptable. For a country that used to believe in liberty, equality and fraternity, that is.
note: I don't believe in equality but the French claimed they did
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted July 13, 2013 12:50 PM |
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@DD:
Actually France is feeding and giving a roof + money to the roms minorities your country chases out without remorse, so before going on your horse think twice, in your position I would just keep it quiet.
@GunFred:
Taking such shallow shortcuts is pathetic too and only a swedish could do it so good as you do, seeing the absolute laxity and censure your government practice. 100 hours of community service as punishment for each one of the 6 muslims boys raping a swedish girl, google and taste, no comment.
Besides, the anti-immigration tension is not about anti-immigrant, but mostly about the inactivity of governments, who do not propose any valid solution and just contemplate the disaster. The economical aspect of immigration is one variable, but there are also deep, unwanted and constant modifications into the cultural landscape and people complaining about those changes should be respected, it is their right to voice their opinions about secular traditions, moral values and the living standards their ancestors aimed for.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 13, 2013 12:51 PM |
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Yeah that's why they sent them back Sal?
And I don't represent the leaders of my country. I have my own views.
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Salamandre
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posted July 13, 2013 01:00 PM |
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They send them back because there is an economical agreement between France and Romania, Europe GIVES money to Romania for roms. Why don't you document before writing such things?
Yet they come back in France because the conditions offered are way better than in Romania.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted July 13, 2013 01:01 PM |
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Salamandre said:
@GunFred:
Taking such shallow shortcuts is pathetic too and only a swedish could do it so good as you do, seeing the absolute laxity and censure your government practice. 100 hours of community service as punishment for each one of the 6 muslims boys raping a swedish girl, google and taste, no comment.
I do not even understand what you are trying to say but Sweden is sometimes way too soft on crime, what about it? Let me know when you find an identical case where the rapists were swedish and show me the difference in punishment. Also have in mind that the rapists were all minors according to your article.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 13, 2013 01:01 PM |
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Sal: That's their choice. It's not the fault of Romania if they want to go to France or Italy or Spain. And yet when they cause trouble everyone blames Romania 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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