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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted May 24, 2013 12:43 PM |
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DF, you would think they'd know better not to do that, but hey, whoever said radical islamists are reasonable?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 24, 2013 12:45 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:47, 24 May 2013.
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Quote:
It's a severe sin for Hindus to kill a cow. Muslims kill and eat cows right in front of them.
Yes, but the Muslims that happen to do it in front of them are usually not Arabs 
Besides, in today's global world, I don't assume Hindus remain too sensitive about people eating cows. Never been to India though, it's just a guess.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 03:28 PM |
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Of course they are not Arabs. I'm using the general stereotype of Muslim = Arab, which most of the world follows (although incorrectly). Not sure why people of India would be different on that matter 
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fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 04:00 PM |
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I still don't know what the problem is with muslims in France.
in another hand, no one worries about the usa.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 24, 2013 04:12 PM |
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US is probably much more flexible and experienced about immigrants, since its foundation is people starting all over in a new country. France is the country in which the idea of nation-state evolved. Besides, a lot of muslim immigrants in France are from North African colonies, they have historical conflict. US was never involved in colonialism in the classical sense.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted May 24, 2013 05:06 PM |
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Quote:
US is probably much more flexible and experienced about immigrants, since its foundation is people starting all over in a new country. France is the country in which the idea of nation-state evolved. Besides, a lot of muslim immigrants in France are from North African colonies, they have historical conflict. US was never involved in colonialism in the classical sense.
Yeah, when a nation has historically forcefully colonialized large parts of the world, it loses the right to complain when itself is colonialized in return. I would be highly amused if some african tribes suddenly traveled across the seas and kidnapped some white americans to use as slaves. well, at least the thought is amusing...
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 24, 2013 05:43 PM |
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Good point. Still, that's a little bit different. An Algerian immigrant in France considers himself an Algerian immigrant. Afro-Americans don't think in terms of African countries. Even when they get political about the past, it's about a continent, not countries.
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fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 09:06 PM |
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I would think France is quite experienced when it comes to immigration.
US people just killed the native people and imposed their own rules, I believe.
but I didn't mean the problems of the USA, I meant USA is probably a much bigger threat than muslims or islamists.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted May 24, 2013 09:15 PM |
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Quote:
I would think France is quite experienced when it comes to immigration.
US people just killed the native people and imposed their own rules, I believe.
but I didn't mean the problems of the USA, I meant USA is probably a much bigger threat than muslims or islamists.
As long as you buy their stuff and share your oil with them you have nothing to fear from the USA.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 09:22 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 21:27, 24 May 2013.
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No. Islamism is a much greater threat to people's liberty than the United States are.
Hate against the United States is naive. The world would not be more peaceful, free and prosperous without the United States. On the contrary, the US have been fundamental for much of the peace, prosperity and progress we take for granted today.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 24, 2013 09:58 PM |
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Quote:
No. Islamism is a much greater threat to people's liberty than the United States are.
Hate against the United States is naive. The world would not be more peaceful, free and prosperous without the United States. On the contrary, the US have been fundamental for much of the peace, prosperity and progress we take for granted today.
There is no Islamism, Islam is a religion that is about to be a page in history, people who stick to it have nothing else to stick to, so the turning of the page will be sticky. US? As a 20th Century Boy, I love their cinema, music, literature but most of all, I watch their TV. That TV is not prosperity and progress all the time.
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fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 10:13 PM |
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Quote:
On the contrary, the US have been fundamental for much of the peace, prosperity and progress we take for granted today.
yeah, that's why they attack nations that try to reach those ideals.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 10:47 PM |
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Quote:
Islamism is a much greater threat to people's liberty than the United States are.
That's debatable. With all the wars and military interventions the US has been involved in... Consider Obama's current drone strikes killing innocent civilians, the US's historic support of dictators worldwide, and the national security state that arose as a result of the "War on Terror". Yes, Islamism is oppressive, but the US government is quite bad too.
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Eccentric Opinion
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 10:57 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:07, 24 May 2013.
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Artu: Islam is a religion. Islamism is that religion incorporated as a political ideology (though the Quran is much more political than the Bible in itself). It is generally a very oppressive ideology when realized.
Fauch: That's more about projecting power than ideals. I don't agree with many aspects of Amercian foreign policy in the last two decades.
Mvass: I was thinking more out of a historical perspective. How the US has impacted the world. Market democracy, values encouraging progress and tolerance. How such values have been broadcasted across the world with much of their culture. science, Opposition towards totalitarian regimes.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 11:05 PM |
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Ok, to decide what's worse, the US or Islam(ism), let's just imagine
a) The US of A would become a muslimic country like, say, Jordan or Algeria. Or
b) a muslimic country - say, Jordan or Algeria would suddenly have the power of the US of A, but become a secular state
What would you fear more: a secular Jordan or Ageria with the power of the US of A or a muslimic US of A?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 24, 2013 11:08 PM |
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Quote:
Artu: Islam is a religion. Islamism is that religion incorporated as a political ideology (though the Quran is much more political than the Bible in itself). It is generally an very oppressive ideology when realized.
Thank you very much for teaching that to me. As someone who has been living in a country whose political history has been about if Islam can be compatible with secular law, I really needed to hear that from you. But don't you think there is the slightest chance what I meant was Islam can not maintain as a political ideology for long?
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fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 11:10 PM |
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Edited by fauch at 23:21, 24 May 2013.
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Xerox : that must have been a long time ago
JJ : isn't it what the US says? imagine what they would do if they had our power. maybe they should look at themselves first?
are islamists as imperialists as the US? I heard the US may have helped some of those islamists in order to destabilize governments.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 11:16 PM |
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Xerox:
While the US has opposed some totalitarian regimes, it has a long history of supporting dictators, such as in Latin America and Pakistan. It also supported Islamist insurgents in Afghanistan. And its interventions abroad have not been to promote free markets but to give privileges to big business (see the history of the United Fruit Company).
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Eccentric Opinion
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 25, 2013 02:43 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 02:45, 25 May 2013.
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America has been the biggest force in spreading democracy around the world. Yeah, the US has supported some dictators to, for example, prevent the Soviets from gaining puppet states in Latin America. I think that the world is much better off with the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed as a result of the US waging the Cold War with it rather than the world being under Soviet communist rule.
However, this thread is about the danger of radical Islam. Which is I think the greatest threat to the world today. If jihadists get their hands on a nuclear weapon they are going to use it and not necessarily against the US or Israel though those are probably the tow preferred targets. Any Western nation would make an acceptable target for the jihadists.
"Average Joe" Muslim is not a threat. He'll go to work, come home, do stuff with family and friends and makes a good neighbor.
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Revelation
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 25, 2013 06:14 AM |
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Documentary from UK. It is even worse than in France, here the police would have arrest them all. How is possible that they are allowed to shout and publicly demonstrate this way?
That girl has some balls.
On a more funny side, muslims also have their Muslim value survey
7 years long survey shows that when muslims watch porn, people die in Gaza.
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