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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 262 pages long: 1 30 60 90 120 150 180 210 ... 237 238 239 240 241 ... 262 · «PREV / NEXT»
P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted February 20, 2017 03:05 PM

So far the only problem I have with HotA balance are Nix and their unique ability +their actual Defense, but I think we gonna see a change next patch.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 20, 2017 03:41 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 15:44, 20 Feb 2017.

Sea Serpents and Haspids are also a bit too fast for big water serpents, I would give both -2 speed.
Pirates, Corsairs and Sea Dogs all have 7 speed, it would be better with Pirates having 5 and Corsairs 6, they are the only units in the game that does'nt gain speed when upgraded.  

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted February 20, 2017 07:35 PM

Any more progress updates yet?

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted February 20, 2017 10:04 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 22:05, 20 Feb 2017.

You guys have to much freetime, to bother the HotA staff, hum? I haven't any time at all, gimme some! The longer it takes the more bugfree content we get.

I personally hope for new artifacts and heros, but we'll see.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted February 21, 2017 03:12 AM

P4R4D0X0N said:
The longer it takes the more bugfree content we get.
Well the last time we heard anything was just after the previous expected release date of 15 January, and it's now February 20, so even an expected date would be nice.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted February 21, 2017 12:38 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 12:39, 21 Feb 2017.

I think it's a more complex update und it may lead to problems with compatiblity and other stuff but we'll see. St. Patricks fits well for Leprechaun

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 21, 2017 02:57 PM

I wish they would at least tell us what's happening.
New Years was quite a while ago, so was January 14...

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AyAyAyden
AyAyAyden

Tavern Dweller
posted February 21, 2017 09:51 PM

In the meantime we can keep on wishing, right.

1.
I would like to see an improvement in water magic and fire magic.

Earth and air are imo much too powerful with Townportal, Resurrection, Implosion, Slow, DD, Fly, Chain Lightning, Haste.

e.g. Sacrifice is a joke compared to Resurrection.

So I just suggest to change Sacrifice:
Sacrifice does not destroy own creatures, but opponent's troops.


2.
In an ideal world (Garden of Eden), you can activate/deactivate each new feature.
So lets say spell Sacrifice is changed and you don't like it.
Then you can go to your config.ini and set:
spell_sacrifice = 0
which would imply that the original spell is used instead of the HotA replacement.
Of course, for each change there should be a configurable setting, so everyone can create it's own HotA, e.g. now 10.000 gold on cartographer's full map instead of 1.000 gold etc. - when I don't like it, I just deactivate it in the settings.

____________

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted February 21, 2017 10:06 PM

I like Sacrifice as it is... it's perfect for Inferno town tho it could be stronger, thats correct.

But I agree on water and fire magic.... I'd like a revamp of the spell "Inferno" and would personally add some more damage to fireball. I'd like some more lowlevel skills for fire, some more lvl 2+3 would be nice in case of balance. For water I would like one level 4+5 spell each, since they are missing.

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Bluts
Bluts

Tavern Dweller
posted February 21, 2017 10:48 PM

Fire magic is all about Berserk and Armageddon. Berserk alone is a good enough reason to pick up fire magic xD and maybe curse ? I don't remember any other magic that I use ...
Water magic is all about prayer, cloning and bless... and summon boat I pick it up with very few heroes depending on the race. Bless can be a real bless ;D

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graenfur
graenfur


Hired Hero
posted February 21, 2017 11:39 PM
Edited by graenfur at 23:42, 21 Feb 2017.

Nik has already answered many questions.. here are some..
P4R4D0X0N said:
So far the only problem I have with HotA balance are Nix and their unique ability +their actual Defense, but I think we gonna see a change next patch.
nik312 said:
Well, what most of people (including me for quite some time) didn't realise is that it is not just the ability that makes Nix Warriors so impenetrable. The ability is an adequate mirror of Behemoths one and the requirement of mechanics consistency would forbid any changes to those numbers unless it is the only way left. What does make Nix Warriors kinda over the top though is pure stat-line with defense close to that of 7+ creatures. That will be fixed in 1.5.0 - the defense stat of Nix Warriors will be only a little higher than previous maximum and the attack will be cut as well.


phoenix4ever said:
Sea Serpents and Haspids are also a bit too fast for big water serpents, I would give both -2 speed.
Pirates, Corsairs and Sea Dogs all have 7 speed, it would be better with Pirates having 5 and Corsairs 6, they are the only units in the game that does'nt gain speed when upgraded.
nik312 said:
Well, as for that part... It is hard to judge as Haspids don't really see much play in actual online games. I quite believe that with casual armies of 4+ month the stack of Haspids can become quite OP, but then so are many things in casual armies of 4+ month. And the raw power of the stack is quite low compared to Black Dragons for example. And one can reasonably argue that the ability of total magic immunity as well as significantly higher speed and flight by far outweigh the fact that you have to kill stack of Haspids in 1-2 turns or just ignore them for a while, concentrating on other stacks. So no, right now we don't see much actual reason for reworking that ability, but some future facts may change our mind.
nik312 said:
Pirates are one of the main features of Cove and their strength is quite deliberate. You are overlooking 2 major things though. Firstly - they only have 4 shots and yes, that does matter. You may not notice it in easier battles, where the amount of pirates allows them basically to one-shot everything, but in hard battles, where the strength of the stack is most relevant any lower number of pirates would do horribly worse than a stack of grand elves.
Secondly, the damage output of pirates even with bless is significantly lower than that of grand elves. Both average of 18 pirates and maximum of 21 pirates is only barely comparable in damage to 12 and 14 grand elves (and still lower). And yes - comparing pirates with grand elves is appropriate since you do upgrade elves as soon as you can but you don't usually start upgrading pirates until week 2

While niks answer about pirates does not mention speed, I think this well explains why they are the way they are.

AyAyAyden said:
In an ideal world (Garden of Eden), you can activate/deactivate each new feature.
So lets say spell Sacrifice is changed and you don't like it.
Then you can go to your config.ini and set:
spell_sacrifice = 0
which would imply that the original spell is used instead of the HotA replacement.
Of course, for each change there should be a configurable setting, so everyone can create it's own HotA, e.g. now 10.000 gold on cartographer's full map instead of 1.000 gold etc. - when I don't like it, I just deactivate it in the settings.
nik312 said:
The understanding lies as usual in a shift of perspective

The main idea why most of such settings are not introduced is the idea of gameplay integrity. And if we allow any player to easily ban or enable any object/spell or artifact before any generation - that would mean that the game has no default look. The game with DFH and conservatories and without them is very different. The game with Fly/DD/Tp and without them is totally different. The game with red orb/recanter cloak and without them is radically different.

And if all it takes to switch between these games is a change of one option - then which one is standard? Which one do people play in multiplayer? Which one do people play in singleplayer or in casual multiplayer with friends? Which one do we keep in mind when balancing stuff?

Now, what we can do to solve this contradiction is to allow template-makers to edit objects/spells/artifacts that are available in their own templates. That would transfer the responsibility for each change from the game itself to the creators of templates like it is already transferred to the creators of maps. That way it is more obvious that if you yourself make some template with weird settings then whether it is balanced or not and whether people will play it with you or not - depends solely on you. And the way game is supposed to work is in official templates from developers. Also, that way it feels much more natural and in its place rather than some checkboxes before generation

So there won't be any weird game-play changing settings within HotA itself, but..
Docent_Picolan has given us preview of the new template editor which (as I understand) will be available with HotA 1.5, where you would be able to make some weird settings without screwing up the default look of the game.
I personally cannot disagree with any of niks logic, and the teams approach to game balance.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 21, 2017 11:43 PM

Sacrifice is already very powerful, but it is situational since you ideally need to sacrifice a low level stack for a high level stack. Resurrection/Animate Dead is usually enough and it does'nt need another stack to be sacrificed, but in tough battles Sacrifice could be a game changer.
For boosting Fire and Water Magic Fireball, Land Mine, Frost Ring, Inferno and Slayer could be improved for a start.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted February 22, 2017 12:28 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 00:37, 22 Feb 2017.

Yeah fire and water is a little isolated to a hand full of skills. Same counts for air and earth magic imho but they are still some more useful since you may use them very well on map too.

As for "Water Magic" something like "Town Portal" or "Dimensional Door" could be interesting... another lvl 4 or 5 skill to teleport your ship over a larger distance maybe even map wide on water, since you need a turn anyway to leave the boat and attack a city. Maybe you could place a whirlpool on map leading to another defined whirlpool you already set on map. At least water magic would have a use outside of battles and not reduced to only a few skills. Some Examples...


"Benefit Currents" (LvL4 Water) gain an amount of additional movement points when you cast that spell on sea. up to 1-4 times a day depending on water magic skill.

"Whirlpool" (Lvl4 Water) creates a temporary whirlpool on map teleporting your boat to another location (cost a little less than Dimensional Door only works on water and in the same way as DD)

"Whirlpool 2" (LvL5 Water) Creates a lasting whirlpool on map that may be used by all heros (enemy included) leading to another whirlpool you already set on map. If you set another whirlpool the first one disappear and connects pool 2 and 3. Same counts for enemy (AI won't use that skill, just use existing whirlpools) (uses all spellpoints to cast, (at min. 50) to avoid exploitation)

"Healing Tides" (LvL4 Water) grants healing to all your troops, maybe also over an amount of rounds, depending on your water magic ability. No water magic -> once, basic -> once, advanced -> twice, expert -> twice.

"Ice Block" (LvL3 Water) freezes an enemy to a certain location up to a maximum of 3 rounds, targets attack is reduced by 15% (it still retailiates or may attack if ranged) and it takes 7% more damage. Fire magic like fireball will instantly melt the ice. (some more use for fire AoE since you may hit a surrounding enemy and freing one freezed stack while you damage it a little)

"Blizzard" (LvL4 Water) weaker version of Armageddon ideal for ice immune units (add ice immune units first)

"Thunderstorm" (LvL5 Air) Place a Thunderstorm (lasting dark cloud on battlefield, "Inferno" spellsize) for X rounds, the storm hits friendly and enemy units randomly in a random pattern (may hit nothing, one of five units, maybe all aswell), it has also a very small chance to chain light in it's area. [This skill would force units [most use for ranged units], out of an area while your own units aren't save aswell in this area]

"Portal" (LvL5 Fire) (very likely to get for Inferno, since this town is predestined for it), place a pentagram on map, you and enemy may use it, if you set another one you'll port to the first set location. (see Whirlpool above) (uses all spellpoints to cast, (at min. 50) to avoid exploitation)

just some brainstorming... and I dunno if something like this is possible to code at all. I haven't disassembled the source (no time )


phoenix4ever said:
Sacrifice is already very powerful, but it is situational since you ideally need to sacrifice a low level stack for a high level stack. Resurrection/Animate Dead is usually enough and it does'nt need another stack to be sacrificed, but in tough battles Sacrifice could be a game changer.
For boosting Fire and Water Magic Fireball, Land Mine, Frost Ring, Inferno and Slayer could be improved for a start.


It's IDEAL for Inferno, get rid of your Imps to get demons with your Pitlord and resurrect your own fallen units (Efreets, Devils or something) still: the strenght of this lvl5 skill is quite low to be honest.

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Sun_Carrier
Sun_Carrier

Tavern Dweller
Carry the Sun!
posted February 22, 2017 12:15 PM

Hey everyone!

I don't think this issue has been solved and I wasn't bothered to read about 200 pages from this thread (I'd think almost anyone wouldn't have the time or patience to do so), so I'm going to ask this. I am having a compatibility issue with HoTA and the HD mod (at least the crashlog says so). In the map "Barren Lands" my game suddenly started crashing when the last player - teal, AI - ended its turn and my turn was about to begin. I've reloaded about six times now and it still crashes at the same point. The game used to run fine without HoTA. Any help is appreciated.

If this is of any use, I have the original CD version of HoMM 3 Complete - not from GOG.

I'm quite new here, so if anyone could show me how to attach files to my message, I would gladly post my crashlog and save file...

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luk3Z
luk3Z

Tavern Dweller
posted February 22, 2017 02:53 PM

Sun_Carrier said:
Hey everyone!

I don't think this issue has been solved and I wasn't bothered to read about 200 pages from this thread (I'd think almost anyone wouldn't have the time or patience to do so), so I'm going to ask this. I am having a compatibility issue with HoTA and the HD mod (at least the crashlog says so). In the map "Barren Lands" my game suddenly started crashing when the last player - teal, AI - ended its turn and my turn was about to begin. I've reloaded about six times now and it still crashes at the same point. The game used to run fine without HoTA. Any help is appreciated.

(...)


Same here in HOTA scenario.
This is due to map's building bug in (some?) scenarios (crash when I stay in new HOTA building at the end of turn ie. in warehouse of wood).
You should try to play random maps.

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted February 22, 2017 03:21 PM

@Bugreporters:
The only bug I know is with simultanous turns enabled in multiplayer. It crashes when you or any enemiy is using a shipyard.

If your bug is another one, maybe you should send savegame and crashlog to baratorch (email adress should be included in crashlog)

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted February 22, 2017 07:27 PM

Have you tried to reinstall HotA and install a fresh HD Mod after that? I remember having problems some time ago and a reinstall fixed that problem.

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Sun_Carrier
Sun_Carrier

Tavern Dweller
Carry the Sun!
posted February 23, 2017 12:54 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions, but I seem to have found the problem...

I decided to look a bit more closely at the crashlog and it seemed to be having some problems with the sound files. So I just muted the game and it didn't crash anymore (I was able to put the sound back on again after the AI's turn without further crashes).

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 23, 2017 05:06 AM

there's another thread for bug/crash reports.

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skaniol
skaniol

Tavern Dweller
posted February 23, 2017 07:55 AM

graenfur said:
Nik has already answered many questions.. here are some..

10x, graenfur. This is why an official FAQ would be good. It's a lot easier to maintain a FAQ than it's to answer the same questions over and over again in a huge thread. I am sure that such questions are frequently asked on the Russian forums too.


Bluts said:
Fire magic is all about Berserk and Armageddon. Berserk alone is a good enough reason to pick up fire magic xD and maybe curse ? I don't remember any other magic that I use ...

You never use Bloodlust, Blind, Fire Wall, Land Mine, Frenzy, Sacrifice? Unfortunately, neither of these justifies picking Fire Magic and they are almost as good while at Basic. The spell cost reduction is among the most useful things, sadly.

Quote:
Water magic is all about prayer, cloning and bless... and summon boat I pick it up with very few heroes depending on the race. Bless can be a real bless ;D

What about the tactical Teleport, the useful Water Walk on certain maps and the mass spells Cure/Dispel, Weakness, Forgetfulness?

Fire and Water really have their share of good spells, but Earth and Air just trump them. It's a very hard decision to abandon Earth/Air over Fire/Water and there is not enough room for 3-4 schools. If it wasn't for DD, I would probably gravitate toward Water, though. In its current form Earth is just indispensable.


AyAyAyden said:
In the meantime we can keep on wishing, right.
e.g. Sacrifice is a joke compared to Resurrection.

So I just suggest to change Sacrifice:
Sacrifice does not destroy own creatures, but opponent's troops.


Are you sure about that? Think about it! Even if we ignore the fact that it doesn't make sense to sacrifice something which isn't yours in the first place, sacrificing enemy stacks would be broken. It would be a lot better than "Implosion + Resurrection" at the same time... not fair at all.

The rest of my post compares Resurrection to Sacrifice, because I prefer arguing to merely stating my opinion.



Sacrifice isn't really a joke compared to Resurrection. I've used it to great effect. It's just a different spell used in a different way. Both of them convert Spell Points (SP) to Health Points (HP), but Resurrection is more effective toward achieving a flawless victory, while Sacrifice CAN be more effective while facing much stronger armies. Although Sacrifice costs more SP to cast, it can be a lot more cost-effective, because it relies on the sacrificed stack much more than the Power skill (Pwr) of the caster. It also tends to be situational. You need a lot of pre-planning.

The Resurrection formula is straightforward:
40|80|160 + (Pwr * 50) HP restored (perma, unless basic)
`-> Basically, you get 50 HP per each point of Pwr. Basic/Advanced/Expert Earth Magic effectively give you 0.8/1.6/3.2 extra Pwr (respectively)

The Sacrifice formula is a bit more interesting:
(Pwr + Base HP of sacrificed stack + 3|6|10) * Num of sacrificed creatures
`-> Which is actually:
(Pwr + 3|6|10) * Num of sacrificed creatures
That's because the sacrificed stack is lost. You could say its HP are transferred, but this transfer doesn't change the Net worth of HP in your Army. The shortened formula above says how much extra HP you get from the spell (this is how to compare it to Resurrection when it comes to SP to HP conversion). From the formula, you can conclude that the most important thing is the number of sacrificed creatures, because significantly increasing your Pwr (or the base HP of your creatures) is a lot harder than collecting a few more low level creatures like imps/pixies/peasants. The extra bonus on Fire Magic expertise (+3|6|10 to Pwr) is nice, though.


If you sacrifice 50+ creatures, the Expert Sacrifice will always restore more total Army HP compared to Expert Resurrection (as long as there are enough troops to resurrect). Depending on Pwr, you can get away with even less: 44 creatures @ Pwr 40; 42 @ Pwr 30; 39 @ Pwr 20; 37 @ Pwr 15; 33 @ Pwr 10; 28 @ Pwr 5; 20 @ Pwr 1.

Keep in mind that lower than that number of creatures means that the Sacrifice is less effective when it comes to total army HP. On the other hand, it's usually more effective at bringing stuff to life per cast, due to the HP transfer that I was talking about.

For example, you have 15 Pwr and 20 SP left, a stack of 100 imps and a dead stack of 100 demons. If you cast Resurrection on the demons, you'll resurrect ((15 + 3.2) * 50) / 35 = 26 demons. The total HP of your army will be 26 * 35 + 100 * 4 = 1310. On the other hand, if you were to Sacrifice the 100 imps in order to resurrect demons, you'll be able to resurrect ((15 + 4 + 10) * 100) / 35 = 82 demons for a total HP of 82 * 35 = 2870. Although this is an ideal situation, the Sacrifice there looks nothing like a joke to me. You'll need a Pwr of 55 to bring back the same 82 demons at once, or a Pwr of 67 for all 100 demons, thru Resurrection. You'll need a Pwr of 21 or 121 Imps instead of 100, in order to resurrect the 100 demons thru Sacrifice.

One of the main downsides of Sacrifice compared to Resurrection is the Fire Magic school. In addition to the various undead, unliving, elementals and creatures immune to level 4 magic, you can't use it on creatures immune to fire too. (Poor Efreeti! They could benefit a lot).

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