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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Super Thread is 548 pages long: 1 70 ... 71 72 73 74 75 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 548 · «PREV / NEXT»
Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 21, 2014 08:28 AM

When spell modding in VCMI will be made for adventure map spells also, i think of making low-level (2-3) spell giving hero additional move points for a day.
PS I mostly don't use chains in single player games. It's a matter of will not balance. If human wants to "cheat", he will cheat.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 21, 2014 09:46 AM

hippox89 said:
Coordinating movement/creatures between multiple heroes is an art to master in HMM3. It adds depth and dynamic to the whole movement system.  Calling the concept 'cheating' is something I fail to understand, because setting up good chains is not 'free', it takes planning/coordinating. I don't have time to comment on logistics just right now.


I don't think it's the issue of how to set something like that up, but more the concept of it all. The fact that your Heroes are limited in their movement, but your army stacks are not, provided you can chain your Heroes well enough. In theory, your army stacks could travel the distance of just about as many Heroes as you could chain together! In that respect, Heroes IV did it better, in that each stack had its own movement points and the total army moved as far as the stack with the least points remaining.

I realise HotA isn't going to change this aspect and it's here to stay for Heroes3, but I would favor realism over a game mechanic here. As a matter of fact, the AI doesn't use it purposefully either.

hippox89 said:
HMM3 is not a RTS where you have control over a lot of individual units which you can use for keeping the fog at bay. I don't think fog of war has a place in HMM3. Disguise and Cover of Darkness are concepts that was meant to affects the shroud, or lack thereof, without having 3 layers of vision (FoW).


Personally, even though I seriously dislike Fog of War (I like to know everything ), I think the game could benefit from 3 layers: fully covered (black), fully exposed (explored and within visual range) and greyscale with just static objects (like the Grail map, but then with static adventure map objects along with it) for areas that you did explore but aren't within any visual range.

This would immediately make the Scouting skill more useful, while also giving more (even late-game) use to the Lookout Tower of, well, Tower . And other map objects that give a view on certain areas. Since I seriously dislike how Cover of Darkness is implemented in the current game, I would suggest having it just turn the surrounding area to greyscale ... but since the game would already do that, I would suggest something else: simply have it reduce visual radius by X-amount of tiles for any practical purposes. For the map object with that name, the effect should last a week (giving it a purpose to revisit it) while for Necropolis, it's permanent. This also makes it easier to add up different effects, for instance when a Tower with a Lookout Tower is close to an enemy Necropolis with a Cover of Darkness active.

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2014 10:32 AM

ericoz said:
you mentioned earth spells, the only magic school  worth to be maxed in the game (unless you find a dimension door scroll early


by this statement you have proven that you are a noob and you dont know anything about balance. Air not worthed maxing? At least half of factions will benefit from it more than from Earth. Water not worth maxing? Tell it to the fortress lol.

How about we play 1vs1, you will show me your chaining. However it is more likely that will crush you in 2 weeks. Obviously its nothing wrong in being a noob but if you talk bullsnow and pretend to be pro while clearly you have low knowledge is.. meh.

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 21, 2014 02:18 PM

Maurice said:
Personally, even though I seriously dislike Fog of War (I like to know everything ), I think the game could benefit from 3 layers: fully covered (black), fully exposed (explored and within visual range) and greyscale with just static objects (like the Grail map, but then with static adventure map objects along with it) for areas that you did explore but aren't within any visual range.


I think it's a bad idea for HMM3.
It will not make things easier. But player instead of chains of heroes will be doing nets of heroes for visibility purposes.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2014 02:30 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 15:00, 21 Jul 2014.

First of all: This is a great and atm very bugfree Mod... very promising for the future.

Secondly: Sorry Ericoz, I think you are the one who got a PM instead of a Post to this thread. 1hour registration anti-spam delay xD my fault...

for the rest...
why don't combine both suggestions in case of scouting + fog of war?

*Fog of War could regrow 1 Square a day, with scouting it may stay revealed for a week. Also not the full (black) fog, a transperent one would be nice, where you can see monsters/artifacts you haven't

my wishlist atm:
*Rebalance of secondary skills (a lot suck heavy) (also pls an option for witchhuts not to accept offered skill, also the market of time works well in WoG for some unwanted hero starting skills)
*Unique special for Nargash and Jeddite (doubled Feature)
*Rebalance of Heroes with spell as special (Coronius in WoG works well imho)
*buy-all button like in WoG... Especially for Rampart a very useful feature, when u save your money <3
*pls bring back the "Barbarian Lord's Axe of Ferocity" with some changes maybe

€dit: some more for the wishlist
____________

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SkeleTony
SkeleTony


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2014 04:28 PM

Maurice said:
hippox89 said:
Coordinating movement/creatures between multiple heroes is an art to master in HMM3. It adds depth and dynamic to the whole movement system.  Calling the concept 'cheating' is something I fail to understand, because setting up good chains is not 'free', it takes planning/coordinating. I don't have time to comment on logistics just right now.


I don't think it's the issue of how to set something like that up, but more the concept of it all. The fact that your Heroes are limited in their movement, but your army stacks are not, provided you can chain your Heroes well enough. In theory, your army stacks could travel the distance of just about as many Heroes as you could chain together! In that respect, Heroes IV did it better, in that each stack had its own movement points and the total army moved as far as the stack with the least points remaining.

I realise HotA isn't going to change this aspect and it's here to stay for Heroes3, but I would favor realism over a game mechanic here. As a matter of fact, the AI doesn't use it purposefully either.

hippox89 said:
HMM3 is not a RTS where you have control over a lot of individual units which you can use for keeping the fog at bay. I don't think fog of war has a place in HMM3. Disguise and Cover of Darkness are concepts that was meant to affects the shroud, or lack thereof, without having 3 layers of vision (FoW).


Personally, even though I seriously dislike Fog of War (I like to know everything ), I think the game could benefit from 3 layers: fully covered (black), fully exposed (explored and within visual range) and greyscale with just static objects (like the Grail map, but then with static adventure map objects along with it) for areas that you did explore but aren't within any visual range.

This would immediately make the Scouting skill more useful, while also giving more (even late-game) use to the Lookout Tower of, well, Tower . And other map objects that give a view on certain areas. Since I seriously dislike how Cover of Darkness is implemented in the current game, I would suggest having it just turn the surrounding area to greyscale ... but since the game would already do that, I would suggest something else: simply have it reduce visual radius by X-amount of tiles for any practical purposes. For the map object with that name, the effect should last a week (giving it a purpose to revisit it) while for Necropolis, it's permanent. This also makes it easier to add up different effects, for instance when a Tower with a Lookout Tower is close to an enemy Necropolis with a Cover of Darkness active.


These are some truly great ideas I would love to see implemented (if possible) in Heroes III. But I am not sure if they are feasible or not (I am not a developer in any way).

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 21, 2014 07:24 PM

SkeleTony] In that respect, Heroes IV did it better, in that each stack had its own movement points and the total army moved as far as the stack with the least points remaining.
quote said:


Just imagine making about 100 separate armies consist of one first level unit, to make fog disappear. Do you still want so much armies against fog?

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
posted July 21, 2014 07:53 PM

Will there be a WoG/VCMI support in the future?

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2014 10:44 PM
Edited by hippox89 at 22:54, 21 Jul 2014.

Lord_Immortal said:
Will there be a WoG/VCMI support in the future?


These questions have been asked countless times, no offence. Besides, what does 'WoG/VCMI support' even mean?

Recreating HotA for VCMI is a decision for the VCMI team and anybody willing and able to contribute to that goal. The crew is invested and dedicated to reverse-engineering Shadow of Death files. They're doing their own thing in other words.

Also, the crew has said that there's no plans to add compatibility with WoG/ERA. It was something that they wanted to achieve in the past, but to my understanding they have move entirely away from that idea now.

I wish there was a eye-catcher FAQ that would definitively answer the top 3 asked/answered questions.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted July 21, 2014 11:28 PM

Yeah, a small faq wouldn't hurt. The OP is a bit vague in this endless, asked matter.

"The modification surely will not work on AB, RoE or WoG. No ERM (or other script language) support is available."

Same for Kronverk/Cathedral factions (although this is more clear). Adding info about Forge and how is far from finished would be nice too
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SkeleTony
SkeleTony


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2014 11:48 PM

Macron1 said:
SkeleTony] In that respect, Heroes IV did it better, in that each stack had its own movement points and the total army moved as far as the stack with the least points remaining.
quote said:


Just imagine making about 100 separate armies consist of one first level unit, to make fog disappear. Do you still want so much armies against fog?


You somehow misquoted here. I did not say the above which is attributed to me. I do not even play Heroes IV.

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ericoz
ericoz


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2014 05:20 AM

revolut1oN said:


by this statement you have proven that you are a noob and you dont know anything about balance. Air not worthed maxing? At least half of factions will benefit from it more than from Earth. Water not worth maxing? Tell it to the fortress lol.

How about we play 1vs1, you will show me your chaining. However it is more likely that will crush you in 2 weeks. Obviously its nothing wrong in being a noob but if you talk bullsnow and pretend to be pro while clearly you have low knowledge is.. meh.


Air magic can be hell strong with the right town (because of haste) and also if you get dimension door access.

But access to slow, shield, force field (to clean utopias), ressurrection (no more army losses), town portal, not to mention the best damage spells being earth, it ouclasses every other magic shool in usefulness.

I never claimed to be a pro... nor stated anything about skill regarding other players. I'm an average player that plays sometimes at  world cup league site... 80% of players I know there agree with me on earth being the stronger magic school, while some argue about air being on par with it. But all agree on fire being the worst and water somewhat not bad but not worth maxing either.

Sure they all can be useful into some extent, but earth is overpowered.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 22, 2014 08:54 AM
Edited by Maurice at 08:54, 22 Jul 2014.

Macron1 said:
Maurice said:
In that respect, Heroes IV did it better, in that each stack had its own movement points and the total army moved as far as the stack with the least points remaining.



Just imagine making about 100 separate armies consist of one first level unit, to make fog disappear. Do you still want so much armies against fog?


Don't misquote me; I never said that I wanted the armies as in Heroes IV, where units could move without a Hero. I am actually quite opposed to it because it's too much micromanagement in my opinion. Armies should only move when lead by a Hero.

But handling Heroes across the map to reveal the shroud? Please do! In fact, having one of your scout Heroes killed could be a tactical set back, because you lose information on the whereabouts of your enemy.

However, this changes the tactical dynamics of the game, so I don't think it's feasible to implement without changing the way the game is played.

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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted July 22, 2014 11:52 AM

Macron1 said:
Maurice said:
In that respect, Heroes IV did it better, in that each stack had its own movement points and the total army moved as far as the stack with the least points remaining.



Just imagine making about 100 separate armies consist of one first level unit, to make fog disappear. Do you still want so much armies against fog?


And that's why in H4 you had a maximum number of armies

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted July 22, 2014 01:34 PM

That'd be changing H3 mechanics too much, and we well know HotA team doesn't want to do such a thing.

Still, you can always count on expert view air
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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 22, 2014 05:57 PM

Maybe its change but its also a chance for a better balance... If you see the whole map its kinda easy to react on nearly everything.
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 22, 2014 06:16 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Maybe its change but its also a chance for a better balance... If you see the whole map its kinda easy to react on nearly everything.

Look at it like on Enroth Google Maps

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted July 22, 2014 07:11 PM
Edited by hippox89 at 19:12, 22 Jul 2014.

P4R4D0X0N said:
Maybe its change but its also a chance for a better balance... If you see the whole map its kinda easy to react on nearly everything.


Cartographers was already removed. You cannot see the whole map because you actually have to scout the land beforehand. You can intercept a scout moving into your vision with an advantage, because he's moving into what you can already see.

Anyhow, I had a random brainstorm idea (it's not a suggestion) about how a hero with Scouting would be able to close the shroud in the same ratio of his extended vision. A portable Cover of Darkness, basically. It'd probably be annoying.

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Sal
Sal


Famous Hero
posted July 22, 2014 07:23 PM

But it makes not much sense to have scouting close the view, even if for enemies only. It would be better for such cursed secondary effects to be tied to heroes factions. Ie inferno heroes create shroud, necro terraform land into cursed, druids into grass, wizards/warlocks able to place magic plains and such.

More of a material for a local mod, as I doubt it's everyone's taste, such changes.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 22, 2014 07:55 PM

hippox89 said:

Cartographers was already removed. You cannot see the whole map because you actually have to scout the land beforehand. You can intercept a scout moving into your vision with an advantage, because he's moving into what you can already see.



If u've seen that part of the map its there forever, so you're prepared for everything, thats what i mean...

Other opion is: replace eagle eye, mysticism, resistance, artillary, first aid, diplomacy, learning, scouting, sorcery... for something useful. Atm these skills are nearly in every constellation pure crap, waste in your hero bar, same as speciality on one SINGLE Spell for certain heros...

With adequate fog of war you may see the whole map from cartograph, but who cares when u dont see any movement on it? just the static map... imo this is an option for skillful gameplay
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