|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted January 02, 2015 01:18 AM |
|
Edited by xerox at 01:21, 02 Jan 2015.
|
So I watched a popular science programme about homosexuality and empirical findings were:
- Sexuality is tied directly to sexual arousal. If you are aroused by same-sex, well, sex, then you are homosexual.
- Most empirical findings point towards sexuality being determined at birth or pre-birth.
- For each son a mother has, the probability of him being gay increases by 33%. This is hypothezised to be a result of immunological reactions in the woman's womb. However, this only explains 15% of all homosexuals.
- Homosexuality might have something to do with the X comprosome, which is only inherited from the mother. There are usually more homosexuals on the maternal side of the family.
- Homosexual people are more likely to have preferences that are overrepresented among women such as interest for culture and social work.
- There's a gene which makes people more attracted to men and in women, it makes them produce more children but for men... well, they become increasingly attracted to men/gay but don't produce chilren. So being gay might be something like a genetic side-effect.
So I'm inclined towards sexuality per se, i.e. what genders we are aroused to, has a biological basis but the practices typicaily associated with a sexuality ("gay culture") are constructed.
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 01:21 AM |
|
|
Quote:
- For each son a mother has, the probability of him being gay increases by 33%
Bs, my mother had 8 sons and we're all straight/heteros.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 01:24 AM |
|
|
Tsar-Ivor said:
Quote:
- For each son a mother has, the probability of him being gay increases by 33%
Bs, my mother had 8 sons and we're all straight/heteros.
The probability of having a gay son is like 2% from the start so...
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 07:41 AM |
|
|
|
Gay is much more an education and psychology rather than physiology.
|
|
Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 09:22 AM |
|
Edited by Pawek_13 at 09:35, 02 Jan 2015.
|
Orzie said:
Gay is much more an education and psychology rather than physiology.
If you mean sexual drive, then this is a thing that cannot be controlled. You have no ability to choose which sex turns you on. If you mean the way how he/she behaves, then yes, this is determined by education and psychology. Besides, homosexual people have quite high levels of hormones which are associated with opposite sex. Can this be supressed? Not really. As xerox said, sexuality is determined during pregnancy or just after it and cannot be changed as that (this is the reason why we have no ability to change sex of a person).
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 11:17 AM |
|
|
Heh, Orzie will get crucified for his statement, but also yours is in no way more "scientific". The study says: people with high hormones have more chances in being interested by same sex, not that homosexuals have high hormones, nuance.
The science also knows almost nothing precise at this moment, but Orzie is also partially right: in a society which never stops hammering your head with "everything is normal if you feel it and hurts nobody", youngsters with unlimited curiosity and inexistent moral standards will be more inclined to explore various ways to satisfy their sexual needs. And possibly appreciate them all.
|
|
Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 12:10 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
The study says: people with high hormones have more chances in being interested by same sex, not that homosexuals have high hormones, nuance.
That's what I meant. 
Although it may be that society inclines someone to try homosexual relationship, the biological is still the major reason for specific sexuality.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 12:37 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
The science also knows almost nothing precise at this moment, but Orzie is also partially right: in a society which never stops hammering your head with "everything is normal if you feel it and hurts nobody", youngsters with unlimited curiosity and inexistent moral standards will be more inclined to explore various ways to satisfy their sexual needs. And possibly appreciate them all.
You make it sound like it is about lack of morals, why should they have a moral standard about it, if they feel it and it indeed hurts nobody? I think it would be much more accurate to say, if people are from a society that puts you in prison or hangs you for it, thet are more likely to regress it. Where I'm from, people from a small town can commit suicide when they are outed in Facebook or something, is that better? Besides, I dont think any culture has reached to a point where being gay is as comfortable as being srtraight. If nothing else, their parents will have a hard time adjusting to the fact that their kid wont have a traditional family with biological grandchildren. It seems to me very unlikely that someone would turn gay just out of curiousity.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 01:05 PM |
|
|
What I mean is that the today youngsters are more interested in shallow ways of communicating and know each other, love is an experiment and making love became a hobby. In this sterile and individualist environment, the fences protecting us from dysfunctions becoming natural are down and the science also became unable to explain the why, then also to predict the outcome at long term.
We are in an experimental phase.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 01:16 PM |
|
|
Hmmm, I wouldnt call the sexual revolution such a new phase, the first hippies are in their seventies now. In the West, It was the 60's and early 70's that was the experimental phase, it tuned down later with a consensus of everybody minding their own business.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 04:05 PM |
|
|
xerox said:
There are usually more homosexuals on the maternal side of the family.
that makes no sense?? if you are a mother, that increases the chances your parents are homosexual???
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 04:08 PM |
|
|
I think what he meant was that the genetic heritage from the maternal side is more likely to result in homosexuality. I have no idea if that's true, though.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 05:40 PM |
|
Edited by Orzie at 17:53, 02 Jan 2015.
|
Quote:
As xerox said, sexuality is determined during pregnancy
Only for those 4% which always existed despite all restrictions and religious morale.
Other than that, it comes from education and psychological traits formed from the very childhood, like soft boys educated by lone mothers or a couple mother-grandmother for example, when they also often are bashed by more aggressive contemporaries due to the soft/weak character and tend to establish friendship with girls rather than boys. Whatever the ultimate tolerance fanboys think.
When a child is a child, it's possible to make very many things normal in the child's mind.
Moreover, the animal instincts which still dwell in humankind can take their toll in extreme situations, like sexual isolation for a long time (prison). This happens to "naturally born according to Xerox" straight people as well with almost no exceptions.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 06:09 PM |
|
|
Orzie said:
Other than that, it comes from education and psychological traits formed from the very childhood, like soft boys educated by lone mothers or a couple mother-grandmother for example, when they also often are bashed by more aggressive contemporaries due to the soft/weak character and tend to establish friendship with girls rather than boys. Whatever the ultimate tolerance fanboys think.
When a child is a child, it's possible to make very many things normal in the child's mind.
Sorry, Orzie but that sounds exactly like the propaganda crap people accuse of Putin. Those things can turn a child's behaviour and mannerisms more feminine but usually wouldnt have much of an effect in sexual orientation. There are swat team members who are gay and opera singers who are straight. This soft/tough talk has nothing to with biological urges but it's rather about social roles and what's expected of a man traditionally. Also, it makes no sense whatsoever since homosexuality is known to be common among boys-only schools. (Not exactly prisons where they cant reach any girls, are they.)
Also, I'm not sure what you are suggesting, should we ban people from being raised by mother and grandmothers only, how is that gonna happen? And even if that was the reason, should we not "tolerate" gays and shun them? Why? What bothers you so much about them? Let's assume they are "softer" people, how is that something morally wrong?
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 06:28 PM |
|
|
artu said:
swat team members who are gay and opera singers who are straight.
haha, I will relate this comparison to my students and have a good laugh. Male singers (why you say opera, and no pop/jazz for example, they sing 100% same area)have low range -bas, baritone, tenor, they usually play in FA key (women play in SoL key)- and being good male singer has nothing to do or is enhanced by with your sexual orientation.
I think you confound with medieval castrates. Which, poor ones, had no sexuality at all. But this indeed affected their singing capacity, range and accuracy.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 06:30 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 18:35, 02 Jan 2015.
|
Well, I'm the one objecting to such stereotyping, isnt that quite obvious? There is a general trend associating gay or "soft" people and the love of opera, it's a cliche and I'm not sure what its origins are (the movie Milk maybe, but it's older than that). Anyway, it was just an example and the point was to show that it's flawed logic.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 06:41 PM |
|
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 06:48 PM |
|
Edited by Orzie at 18:58, 02 Jan 2015.
|
Quote:
Those things can turn a child's behaviour and mannerisms more feminine but usually wouldnt have much of an effect in sexual orientation.
You speak by theories, while I speak by my own observations. I didn't say I exclude the possibility of swat team members being gay, cases like these of course happen, but the quantity of gay people will increase drastically when gay propaganda will be launched at maximum. Poor, poor demography.
And yeah, opera is not a good example. If we speak about the cultural activities, gay people just tend to do them (it's just another observation, e.g. a fact, a phenomenon, but of course not an explanation), but cultural activities don't cultivate homosexualism.
Quote:
Also, I'm not sure what you are suggesting, should we ban people from being raised by mother and grandmothers only, how is that gonna happen?
We shouldn't ban anyone, it's impossible. I just used that as an example when a newly formed personality of a man may be influenced by many external factors. It's not only the genes which are responsible.
Quote:
I think you confound with medieval castrates. Which, poor ones, had no sexuality at all. But this indeed affected their singing capacity, range and accuracy.
The countertenors which you speak of had their voices changed because of the overall hormonal balance (it's an interesting question if hormonal balance is also responsible for changes in sex preferences). That's why we basses often get recommendations to enhance this balance using simple sweets of life ;D
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 06:59 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 19:00, 02 Jan 2015.
|
Salamandre said:
I never heard this cliché.
Just a couple among many when you Google opera and gay:
1,2, 3, not to mention dozens of sitcom jokes I witnessed over the years.
@Orzie
Your observations seem biased and appear very ideological, nobody denies circumstantial factors are part of the combination but "the soft gay" thing is a real cliche and normative in a very subjective and flawed way, not to mention even if they are so, to bully them about it would be the morally wrong thing, not being a person who's more vulnerable.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 02, 2015 07:03 PM |
|
|
|
When something is considered by someone a cliche, it doesn't yet mean it doesn't have many precedents in human history. I can name a lot of cases where soft-charactered people were straight, but it's unclear if it will stay the same after a long-time brainwash. Oh, sorry, a long-time tolerance lesson.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
