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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted December 09, 2015 02:37 AM |
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Edited by Raenus at 02:43, 09 Dec 2015.
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Minion said:
I don't see Obama like that at all. Hillary I might not like as a person but at least she is competent for the job unlike most candidates lol.
What do you honestly think qualifies Hillary to be the president?
Also, HOW DARE TRUMP TALK ABOUT REFUSING SYRIAN REFUGEES!
Meanwhile your precious Obama is turning away christian refugees.
Before you reply look at This.
I want to see you justify this. Why is there a double standard being applied?
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 03:21 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 03:24, 09 Dec 2015.
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1) Precious Obama is not choosing the refugees but they are coming through The UN's refugee agency (UNHCR)
2) You already did refuse to take refugees after the Paris attacks for this year, but will be resuming it next year. So yes people do dare to talk about it.
3) Yes you are taking Christian refugees as well, but you do know that almost 90% of Syria is Muslim anyways.
As for Hillary well she is most experienced in foreign policy for sure. Even the Republicans can admit to that I presume.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 03:35 AM |
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Edited by Kayna at 03:35, 09 Dec 2015.
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But Donald Trump said things that goes against the Conservative base. At least the rich ones.
He said that Israel doesn't really want peace
He gave the finger to a small group of millionaires that finances most republican candidates ( I forgot their group name )
He said he'd go to war in Iran/Iraq/whatever to get the oil
Etc. Those are the ones I cam remember on top of my head. I know those are only 3 statements, but those 3 are pretty big statements.
Believe it or not, Trump's strategy is based on being honest. Or, more specifically, "vote for me, the only guy that says it like it is". I still stand by my reasoning that getting Trump elected is a sign that voters are changing, that voters finally knows politicians are full of crap and we ( they ) just want a honest guy for once. And that if he is elected, other politicians will follow suit 4 years later, and be more honest with us in the future to earn our votes.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 04:20 AM |
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Galaad said:
An old Zbigniew Brzezinski's interview from 1998 has just been dug up, thought of sharing...
Quote:
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?
B: It isn’t quite that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.
B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.
Translated from the French by Bill Blum
i've read this before. either here, or elsewhere on the internet. and people still think that nations aren't involved in destabilizing one another through seperate conflicts. i wish i could slap reality into people.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 04:26 AM |
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Minion said:
As for Hillary well she is most experienced in foreign policy for sure. Even the Republicans can admit to that I presume.
hillary is a straight-up criminal, with horrible beliefs that she will be allowed to use against the american people(unlike obama with his sensible gun control ideas that never get anywhere because congress and nra fights him), because of political correctness and an advancing sensitivity to groups that suck on america's back like a leech. she may be our best bet for foreign policy, but she'll rape american society with her views, and send our culture even further into the septic tank.
both she and trump(and indeed, anyone in the running, but the two forementioned will be going head to head, unless something magical happens; which it won't) are a HUGE step back for the states.
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted December 09, 2015 06:10 AM |
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Minion said:
1) Precious Obama is not choosing the refugees but they are coming through The UN's refugee agency (UNHCR)
2) You already did refuse to take refugees after the Paris attacks for this year, but will be resuming it next year. So yes people do dare to talk about it.
3) Yes you are taking Christian refugees as well, but you do know that almost 90% of Syria is Muslim anyways.
As for Hillary well she is most experienced in foreign policy for sure. Even the Republicans can admit to that I presume.
Okay, I find this a bit confusing. I think you may have misunderstood me.
1. The Obama administration is not accepting any Christian refugees, what you said appears to have no relation to that.
2. The Trump comment was mocking the general outcry from almost everyone on the internet, not my actual feelings.
3. No we are not. Did you read what I posted?
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 06:14 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 06:25, 09 Dec 2015.
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I did read, I followed a link on that article and it was something like 97% refugees are Muslims. Not many Christians but yeah you do take some.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 09, 2015 07:05 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 07:10, 09 Dec 2015.
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Trump's call for a temporary halt to Muslim immigration resonates with many for a number of reasons.
1) The fact is most terrorist attacks around the world are Islamic based. People really don't want to be beheaded or blown up or shot while attending Christmas parties or going to the market.
2) People are tired of the current administration and democrat leaders calling everyone Islamophobic if they say anything about Islam that is not praise.
3) The FBI already said there is no way to vet the refugees.
4) Obama is forcing states to accept the Muslim refugees and to provide lifetime welfare to them. This means local and state taxes must rise to provide for their needs.
Additionally the Obama administration attorney general has promised to investigate any negative speech against Islam and has launched a DOJ investigation into the school district where clock boy brought the clock that looked like a bomb.
In the latest terrorist attack in California the woman came over supposedly to get married. It now appears she was an operative sent here to commit murder with her New husband who was also a jihadist.
It is rational to greatly scrutinize any Muslim who wants to immigrate to the US.
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Revelation
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 08:02 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 08:03, 09 Dec 2015.
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Elodin said:
It is rational to greatly scrutinize any Muslim who wants to immigrate to the US.
it is also rational to greatly scrutinize a move that would make muslims feel isolated and unwanted. that's prime thinking for breeding terrorism. intelligent people are attempting to stop that kind of thinking, to keep those same people who are afraid of muslims, safe from future terrorists. if you believe that in order to keep people safe by keeping others out, then you don't understand how terrorism is created in the first place.
on a small scale, you'll have mass shooters like you've been seeing(and many of them weren't muslim, if you remember). on a larger scale(say, the 1.4 billion that makes up the muslim faith), you'll have a much larger problem on your hands.
humanity will only work if people come together. the harder they try, the more successful they'll be. any attempts to divide people should be met with extreme prejudice. by telling anyone they're not welcome, you are effectively making them your enemies.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 09, 2015 08:53 AM |
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fred79 said:
that would make muslims feel isolated and unwanted.
I cannot talk for US but at least Europe offered exceptional conditions to immigrants: open borders combined with state welfare and assistantship is the golden goose mixture the poor countries can only dream. If you compare the level of freedom, wealth and life quality one can have in Alger or Pakistan for example, then France, it is incomparable. You would think that this alone would make them grateful and willing to learn more about French culture and values, to desire to become part of it, be proud of.
And no, it isn't the case, there is a serious resistance -specific to Islam maybe, but it requires way more time and more resources than other cultures. And the problem is that Europe is financially broken, and people are not happy to see the rare spared resources going into some strangers education, which, furthermore, prove to be a waste because it doesn't work. Now put this along open borders ordered by Bruxelles, and you get the deadly illness: more of them enter than we can assimilate yearly, despite the hard work. So is not about Muslims being unwanted but about additional Muslims being unwanted, and this is perfectly rational.
Then I am sorry, but what is this snow concept proclaiming that any country must want, love and kiss anyone's butt who wants to get in? What are we, sugar flies? When I immigrated in France, I worked like a madman to make them appreciate me and I would have considered indecent to ask "rights" without first proving I am worth their respect. I consider that a country has the right and the duty to ask first: what you have to offer so we let you in? It is a mutual collaboration, both sides must profit.
fred79 said:
that's prime thinking for breeding terrorism. [...]then you don't understand how terrorism is created in the first place.
Sorry fred, terrorism is created when armies illegally invade other countries, perform a coup d'etat then keep bombing around for whatever reasons until those countries are reduced to such poorness and powerless that only desperate suicide acts can become one's life goal. Terrorism IS NOT created when you close borders, but when you cross other borders WITHOUT being invited. Terrorism is born from humiliation.
You were in the army attacking Iraq, you said?[...]
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Era II mods and utilities
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 08:59 AM |
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Salamandre said:
I cannot talk for US but at least Europe offered exceptional conditions to immigrants: open borders combined with state welfare and assistantship is the golden goose mixture the poor countries can only dream. If you compare the level of freedom, wealth and life quality one can have in Alger or Pakistan for example, then France, it is incomparable. You would think that this alone would make them grateful and willing to learn more about French culture and values, to desire to become part of it, be proud of.
And no, it isn't the case, there is a serious resistance -specific to Islam maybe, but it requires way more time and more resources than other cultures. And the problem is that Europe is financially broken, and people are not happy to see the rare spared resources going into some strangers education, which, furthermore, prove to be a waste because it doesn't work. Now put this along open borders ordered by Bruxelles, and you get the deadly illness: more of them enter than we can assimilate yearly, despite the hard work. So is not about Muslims being unwanted but about additional Muslims being unwanted, and this is perfectly rational.
Then I am sorry, but what is this snow concept proclaiming that any country must want, love and kiss anyone's butt who wants to get in? What are we, sugar flies? When I immigrated in France, I worked like a madman to make them appreciate me and I would have considered indecent to ask "rights" without first proving I am worth their respect. I consider that a country has the right and the duty to ask first: what you have to offer so we let you in? It is a mutual collaboration, both sides must profit.
isn't there a segregation thing in france? say, usual french are here, and the muslims are over here? correct me if i'm wrong, but this is what i was led to believe, that muslims have their own areas in france. before i continue in this vein, i'll need verification on that.
fred79 said:
that's prime thinking for breeding terrorism. [...]then you don't understand how terrorism is created in the first place.
Sorry fred, terrorism is created when armies illegally invade other countries, perform a coup d'etat then keep bombing around for whatever reasons until those countries are reduced to such poorness and powerless that only desperate suicide acts can become one's life goal. Terrorism IS NOT created when you close borders, but when you cross other borders WITHOUT being invited. Terrorism is born from humiliation.
You were in the army attacking Iraq, you said?
i never said that terrorism isn't created by invasions as well? you should well know my stance on that, as i've made it quite clear over many posts on the subject.
anyway, if you could either verify or deny that muslims are living in segregated areas in france, i would appreciate it.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 09, 2015 09:14 AM |
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Deny what? That, like every where in the world, people sharing similar values and cultures tend to live together? Sure they do. We have entire areas where you won't find any hint about being in France.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 10:01 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 10:06, 09 Dec 2015.
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what i mean is, when muslims come into your country from other countries to take up residence there, are they guided to a place seperate from current french residents? do muslims live next door to non-muslims all over the place(meaning, situationally integrated into the french populace) or are they all in designated areas; specifically for muslims? and if they are in designated areas, were those areas designated by french authorities, or were they designated by muslims, to stay closer to one another?
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 09, 2015 11:09 AM |
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Here is my idea in a nutshell: Whoever you are, you come to Europe or to America, and want to live here, adapt to it. Same for any place on the planet. You can get help, sure, but you have to work and respect the law.
And I could not say this earlier because of post limit: Putin and Trump are both very Conservative for their countries, any way I look at it. And you know that I'd qualify ad a moderate Republican voter for US or centre-right or even plain centre for Europe. No such thing in Romania now. 
And while no politician is honest, I still like Trump a little better than Hillary, although that says too little, and Putin better than any other Russian, but they still wouldn't like each other, that is where I'm getting at.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 12:28 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
And while no politician is honest, I still like Trump a little better than Hillary, although that says too little, and Putin better than any other Russian, but they still wouldn't like each other, that is where I'm getting at.
i'd rather have obama as president for another couple terms, than hillary or trump. out of all the politicians i've paid attention to thus far, i like him the best. even though he comes across as someone that people with power wipe their feet on. even though he was only put in office to soothe people after their rage and disillusionment with bush jr.
but that's only if congress was replaced with people who don't bicker among one another and actually work together to get things done. every snowing piece of snow in congress needs ripped apart by pit bulls, on live television. i despise them. i really snowing despise them. it is beyond my comprehension why nobody with weight has called for them to all be fired from the thrones that they've been using as toilets for years now.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 09, 2015 12:31 PM |
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Congress sounds like our parliament.
Anyway, I dunno if the two-term limit is the best thing. I mean, like you said, Obama still isn't the worst, and even Mr. Clinton for all his faults wasn't terrible. Neither was W. for me. And one-term Presidents usually sucked.
My point is, if the people would want a President for a third term, they should be allowed to vote for that. I've seen forums a while back where people were wondering if Bill could run again in 2012...
And history doesn't remember losers, but I sometimes do. 
Mitt Romney was too nice. And he didn't have the best running mate either. Otherwise, he was not far away from the win.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 12:49 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Mitt Romney was too nice. And he didn't have the best running mate either. Otherwise, he was not far away from the win.
mitt romney is a demon with a human mask; worse than any common sociopath. you turn your back on that guy, and he'd slit your throat just for snows and giggles; then most likely turn your loved ones into hamburger while recording the screams for playback during his jogs. afterward, he'd use the bodies as furniture, while sipping on some $10,000 wine. make no mistake, THAT guy is bad news. 
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 09, 2015 02:30 PM |
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fred79 said:
Drakon-Deus said:
Mitt Romney was too nice. And he didn't have the best running mate either. Otherwise, he was not far away from the win.
mitt romney is a demon with a human mask; worse than any common sociopath. you turn your back on that guy, and he'd slit your throat just for snows and giggles; then most likely turn your loved ones into hamburger while recording the screams for playback during his jogs. afterward, he'd use the bodies as furniture, while sipping on some $10,000 wine. make no mistake, THAT guy is bad news.
Hmm, I should rephrase, since you know him better : He wasn't clever enough to win the campaign.
And Obama is not a full bad guy to me either, but no matter what the media says, the GOP is still the way to go to me. Unlike other places, the US was pretty good by not making radical changes. I mean really, like going to state socialism, dictatorship, etc. And that is what Democrats of today want, more change, too idealistic to be sustainable. And you know, there's that thing called order.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 09, 2015 02:34 PM |
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fred79 said:
when muslims come into your country from other countries to take up residence there, are they guided to a place seperate from current french residents?
No. Nobody takes immigrants by the collar and tells them "you gotta go there". Even if people voting left are supporting this propaganda to explain why the assimilation doesn't work, the truth is much simpler.
This truth is same as in every country which offers social welfare: the type of the housing receiving welfare is precise and must match various criteria. And as everywhere in the world, the types of houses match the neighborhood. Then the majority of people immigrating -not necessarily Muslims, everybody- are economical migrants, which means they have little to offer but a lot to ask. People arriving without any scholar education or diplomas have little chances to occupy luxurious apartments on the Champs Elysees, thus they have to accommodate with sorta ghettos where the prices are low and affordable -for them. This is what I did too, when I was not yet allowed to work because my student visa.
But this doesn't mean you are forced to stay in such areas all your life. As in every social climbing, the house you live in will match your journey. But if no progress -and you will be the only responsible of your failures, then of course you will have live in such ghettos all your life.
Knowing that education, including access to universities, is FREE in Europe, I see no reason to explain global poverty -to a large extend- other than laziness, immaturity, low set of life priorities or drugs.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 09, 2015 02:38 PM |
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Which proves my point: Every country needs order. And you can do that just fine by being careful with immigrants and such. Not every right-wing policy is racifascibigozi, contrary to the "mainstream" belief.
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