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Neraus
Promising
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Pain relief cream seller
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posted May 19, 2020 09:15 AM |
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Same here, we had to face a storm coming up our way, yet our PM said there was no risk and that we were ready back in February, there was #Milanononsiferma (Milan doesn't stop), in which people still ammassed and were encouraged to do so, also #Abbracciauncinese (Hug a Chinese) was going strong at the time, one of the leaders of the majority even got the virus by going to one of those parties, and Milan became one of the most infected cities of Italy, Lombardy is still some kind of leprosary now despite the rest of Italy having almost fully recovered.
It's easy to call out February's skepticism towards the virus when even the experts downplayed this (rightfully so, but it's another discussion entirely, since it means going over all the mistakes done treating the infected patients), then suddenly on March when overnight we Italians closed everything everyone started treating this like the new black death.
I might even say you all got conned, although that may be highly disrespectful towards all those who died, including doctors, who were sent to fight battleships with anti-air guns.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Salamandre
Admirable
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Wog refugee
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posted May 19, 2020 09:37 AM |
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I was in Italy from 7th to 12th of March. Then went in Romania and had to wait 2 hours for medical check before getting in. At my return in France on the 16th, there was zero control at Charles de Gaule airport.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 19, 2020 10:45 AM |
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Salamandre said:
You didn't read properly, make an effort next time.
My remark is about putting aside statements from different moments of the Covid timeline then making them sound concomitant, so you get a made-up propaganda video.
Yes and no. You say: Quote:
and btw, he never said Covid was a hoax, it was a video manipulation, check here and here and here. Enough?
And that has nothing to do with the video Minion linked to, because the video is showing the correct footage with the correct quote. You make it sound like the video would show fake. That's either ignorant or dishonest.
Quote:
For example, Macron's first speech in the video is from 16 March (Trudeau's from 12 march), Trump's is from 22 February. If you take Macron speech from March 7, he calls the people to go out, despite the virus. Is only after the 12th of March that Macron realized it will be bad, and so did everyone, including Trump.
While you make a relevant point, these are not the facts. In Germany, the first infection was diagnosed on 28th of January. They tried to find and quarantine his contacts. Then, end of February, cases slowly began to trickle in. In Germany, there was NEVER any taking-it-easy, it's just that people tried to keep the lid on it, without resorting to drastic measures. They tested people. In other countries, they may have been somewhat easier in general, but once it became clear that things couldn't be kept under control, everyone did what was necessary - everyone except a few that is - USA, Brazil, UK, and Russia.
You can read the US covid-19 stuff here.
The US federal government has been utterly inept in their dealings with this crisis. Trump has been warned multiple times early on by his intelligence, but he never heeded any warnings. The only thing this guy is interested in, is looking good and blaming everyone else - in this case first the WHO, then the Chinese, now the CDC. Keep in mind the US are not done, yet. They still have over 20.000 new cases each day - but Trump wants to restart everything ASAP, in spite of that. Without Obamacare the situation would be much worse, obviously.
How anyone can defend this disgrace of a fake president, is beyond me.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 19, 2020 11:24 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 11:26, 19 May 2020.
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What are you on about Sal? Trump has been a disaster in pandemic response, misleading the public to no avail.
‘Nobody knew there would be a pandemic or epidemic of this proportion’
Trump has repeatedly expressed his surprise at the scale of the coronavirus as it spread around the world and raced across the US.
There is evidence that not only was the Trump administration warned about the potential of a pandemic and its dangers to Americans, it was given a plan on how to deal with it, which it promptly SHELVED. This a massive reason why United States response has utterly failed.
‘It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle – it will disappear’
President was living in denial in February. This position he took has been REPEATEDLY contradicted by public health experts who predicted the sharp increase in Covid-19 infections, blunted only by social distancing measures and the shut down of large gatherings.
‘Anybody that needs a test gets a test. We – they’re there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful’
A lie. In reality, healthcare providers faced a severe shortage of testing kits as coronavirus hit the US, with the situation exacerbated by faults in the testing system and restrictions on who could actually take a test. A big disparity opened up whereby rich or famous people were able to get tests while others struggled to do so.
‘I’ve always known this is a real – this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic. I’ve always viewed it as very serious’
The president has repeatedly downplayed the threat posed by Covid-19, criticising concern over the crisis as a “hoax” (you were true, he didn't call the virus itself a hoax, just the concern over it...?), fretting that letting infected Americans off a cruise ship would increase the number of confirmed cases and claiming that only a couple of Americans had it as cases began to SOAR across the country. He has compounded this by suggesting social distancing restrictions be lifted around Easter – a timeline wildly out of kilter with public health experts!
Americans will have access ‘to vaccines, I think, relatively soon’
Dr Fauci and others at the meeting confirmed that clinical trials – standard for any new vaccine – would have to take place first. A vaccine is more likely to be a year or 18 months away. Despite being told this, Trump told a rally in North Carolina on 2 March that there will be a vaccine relatively soon. What a joke.
‘You can call it a germ, you can call it a flu, you can call it a virus, you know you can call it many different names. I’m not sure anybody even knows what it is’
On 27 March, Trump made the above claim despite warnings from public health experts that coronavirus should not be conflated with seasonal flu. The world has been well aware of the dimensions of the virus since January. I could go on.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Salamandre
Admirable
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Wog refugee
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posted May 19, 2020 11:35 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
And that has nothing to do with the video Minion linked to
No, because I was responding to:
Minion said:
It starts by The Donald calling corona virus a hoax(!),
JollyJoker said:
While you make a relevant point, these are not the facts. In Germany...
yes and kudos to you guys for being the only ones responsible. Thats the only example (except asian countries ofc) you can give. All the others, UK, Italy, France, Spain, got overwhelmed. But "orange man bad" and let's forget about context!
JollyJoker said:
How anyone can defend this disgrace of a fake president, is beyond me.
Oh, here we are, feelings. If debunking lies and made-up videos is defending Trump, so be it.
Minion said:
What are you on about Sal
You have been faithful to yourself by linking a made-up video with fake quotes and different timelines then comparing them like they were concomitant, then you ask me what I am on? Give me a break.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 19, 2020 11:36 AM |
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Hahahahaha, we live in a world when even if you show the President himself speaking, some people call it fake. Unbelievable. Just look at my previous long post as a response.
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Salamandre
Admirable
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Wog refugee
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posted May 19, 2020 11:41 AM |
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No, I call you only a fake.
Minion said:
It starts by The Donald calling corona virus a hoax(!)
Minion said:
you were true, he didn't call the virus itself a hoax
I let those two consecutive comments for the posterity.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 19, 2020 11:44 AM |
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Umm yeah, so I corrected myself, like a normal person does.
You can try to steer to subject to my character, it just proves that you have no arguments on the matter itself. Suit yourself lol.
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Salamandre
Admirable
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posted May 19, 2020 11:52 AM |
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Look guys, what about you listen for once to different sources than your made-up orange man bad so you get the timeline about what has been you know, in our reality.
Dan Crenshaw with Bill Maher on Covid's USA response
4:30 for the Covid debate, yet the other stuff is interesting as well.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 19, 2020 12:24 PM |
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The timeline of Covid in the US is well-documented.
For example:
Quote:
On January 24, President Trump praised China for its coronavirus efforts in a tweet.
Or:
Quote:
President Trump repeatedly claimed credit for acting early with the travel ban. However, The Washington Post reported that 300,000 people traveled to the U.S. from China during the month prior to the ban. The New York Times reported that more than 40,000 persons traveled from China to the U.S. after the January 31 partial ban, and around 430,000 total between the December 31 disclosure of the outbreak by China and April 4. The Washington Post reported that six other countries had restricted travel from China before January 30, six did so on January 31, and by the time U.S. travel restrictions became effective on February 2, 38 other countries had taken action before or at the same time as the U.S. restrictions. The earliest action was Singapore on January 23. Flights from Europe were not banned until March 11, with hundreds of thousands crossing the Atlantic into the U.S., due to disputes about the impact on the U.S. economy among Trump Administration officials.
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Salamandre
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posted May 19, 2020 12:31 PM |
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Yep, and I came back from Italy the 16th of March. No control at De Gaulle airport, yet at that time Italy was like Europe's grave.
So you said?
Quote:
The New York Times reported that more than 40,000 persons traveled from China to the U.S. after the January 31 partial ban,
If you had listen to the video I linked you would have known that those 40k were US citizens being repatriated. But why bother.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 19, 2020 03:21 PM |
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Ah, so repatriated citizens are immune for some reason? No checks, no quarantine? I mean, that's exactly the point: You shut the door for people living in a certain area - but citizens staying in that same area can of course come back, no problem?
Doesn't make any sense at all.
Is that too difficult to see how dumb this is? You have a virus outbreak on a cruising ship. You now say, hey, no one from that ship is allowed to enter my home - oh, except everyone actually living here, no problem. You'd think, you'd put everyone in quarantine, coming back from such a crisis zone...
EDIT: Didn't you come from Romania, technically? And ITALY, wasn't the problem, actually, but NORTH Italy at the time.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 19, 2020 03:35 PM |
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Everyone does what they want, technically.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Salamandre
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posted May 19, 2020 04:00 PM |
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It is a cheap move to brag about how dumb other's decisions were, once the pandemic is half gone. When it is obvious everyone just followed the same pattern. The same medias who accused Trump, Macron, Johnson or whoever, did exactly same mistakes.
White House Press Secretary slams press for hypocrisy
Also, compelling with the lockdown, as I said in the other thread, is the most degrading and pathetic situation ever. Lock 99,5% sane people because of the 0,5% infected, seek no further the definition of insanity. People became sheep.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 19, 2020 05:16 PM |
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Salamandre said:
It is a cheap move to brag about how dumb other's decisions were, once the pandemic is half gone. When it is obvious everyone just followed the same pattern. The same medias who accused Trump, Macron, Johnson or whoever, did exactly same mistakes.
White House Press Secretary slams press for hypocrisy
Also, compelling with the lockdown, as I said in the other thread, is the most degrading and pathetic situation ever. Lock 99,5% sane people because of the 0,5% infected, seek no further the definition of insanity. People became sheep.
Ah, now it gets interesting. First of all, the pandemic isn't HALF gone. It's halfway contained in large parts of Europe and Canada, but it's in full swing in other countries and the US are part of this, with 20.000 new cases each day. And the problem isn't that people make mistakes - they do all the time, although some make more and bigger ones than others - the problem is when people who ARE responsible, simply by their office, first tell all kind of crap (all is peachy, no problem, no danger), and then blame God and the world when it becomes obvious they told crap.
That's one thing. the other is, that you obviously didn't understand the actual problem. The actual problem are not the +85year-olds dying (earlier) - you could just protect THEM. The problem are those who get seriously ill and need treatment, and if they don't get it will either die or suffer some permanent damage shortening their life span.
This happened in Italy (and also New York) where so many people were really sick at the same time that they couldn't all be treated - health system breakdown. There are also the "regular" health problems, people needing treatment after accidents, appendicitis, heart failure, and so on. And there are the medical workers, the doctors and medics and nurses who can't work when they are themselves sick.
And that's only the tip of the iceberg. But some things seem too difficult to understand.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted May 19, 2020 05:25 PM |
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The football stadium, where there are people supposedly treated from the virus right now, is simply empty (a few days ago). Speaking from personal experience. I dunno how it's at you, but the guys in my gov are kinda jerks (not like they weren't before).
There also is the option (obligation mostly, at this point) of declaring even people who died of heart attack without traces of the virus to have died of the virus. Happened plenty of times.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 19, 2020 05:37 PM |
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Salamandre said:
It is a cheap move to brag about how dumb other's decisions were, once the pandemic is half gone.
Excuse me? There has been nonstop criticism to the Trumps lack of response to the pandemic and belittling of the virus, ESPECIALLY from health care professionals. Right from the beginning.
Your precious Fox News might have been worse though, 74 journalism professors and leading journalists lambasted Fox News for allegedly spreading misinformation about the outbreak and the network is now bracing for lawsuits over the network’s coronavirus coverage.
Sorry, you don't get to rewrite history.
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Salamandre
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posted May 19, 2020 07:29 PM |
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You mean the 74 specialists who switched from "Russia Russia" to "Fox Fox"? Because the "Task Force" are amateurs, that is? Do you ever listen to doctor Birx talking about Trump handling the crisis?
Guys, your hatred is just beyond rational, nobody can save you at this point. You twist everyone's words while not seeing how little substance your arguments hold.
Someone listened to that debate between Crenshaw and Maher? I see not, why have your little bubble destroyed in a second when you can just close eyes and continue to create your reality. Go ahead.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 19, 2020 08:37 PM |
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Trump is completely out of touch of the situation in hand, everyone can see it. For political reasons people like Crenshaw (and you, who is not American nor politician, which is odd) bend over backwards to try to make his stupid sentences look smart. That is ridiculous.
I feel bad for the Americans (and as a proxy for the Western coalition that we used to have), they used to be on top of the world, now they look like a joke.
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Blizzardboy
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posted May 19, 2020 08:52 PM |
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He has been erratic, confused, bipolar, and unpredictable. He's deflecting blame to everybody he can, including - with what has become a normality in the past three and a half years - lower people stuck with serving him. I wish it weren't so and I'd say he was doing a good job if I could.
There's a lot of variables that go into the death rate but one that is pretty clear is that early testing saved a small handful of countries from something that could have been much worse.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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