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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 11, 2015 10:56 PM |
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Do you see the difference in quality Salamandre? lol. Just a slightly broader picture of what is going on instead of that SCANDALOUS reporting. Please no more links to tabloids, k?
The Metropolitan Police as a whole seems to have different opinion still than these officers.
It reminds me of the line of argument Trump uses "Trust me, I know a muslim and even he said I was right! He thinks I am great!" lol. It is not enough dude, that doesn't solidify your argument.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 11, 2015 11:02 PM |
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Wasn't you who quoted the telegraph, another "tabloid" in order to backup your petition BS? Is good for you but bad for me?
Anyway, I don't know why you want to start a personal fight. I quote it because I recognize there a very well known situation from where I live, and this is not a tabloid. In the last months we assisted at several officers fired for revealing a very disturbing aspect, usually covered by the dominant media.
Then I also quoted serious infos about tons of weapons and isis propaganda found in several mosques in France. So your point is that there is nothing to fear of? Need some glasses or yo live on Mars?
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 11, 2015 11:29 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 23:31, 11 Dec 2015.
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The daily telegraph is not tabloid... What exactly is BS about that ban? It would have just been funny unless this racist phenomenon stopped being funny a while back. The world can show how it feels in it's own way.
This was on facebook just want to post something positive for change. From Iraq veteran who everyone assumes has to hate Muslims for some reason.
Peace.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 11, 2015 11:41 PM |
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People signing for a petition is always a BS, in the state eyes. We had a referendum in France where French people VOTED at 54% "NO" to Europe, and yet Europe was imposed to them and their vote and will was tramped. So if a nation's referendum is so utterly ignored and despited, what a few thousands signatures will impact?
All the important newspaper are controlled by the power in place. They wanted and needed so much the immigration for the employers lobby that today, while being at war with the core of countries sending migrants, they still let the door wide open. We saw the outcome. And this is madness, here I agree with Trump.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 12:46 AM |
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Elodin said:
Muslims pour out in the streets over cartoons but not over terrorist attacks. Why?
that's actually a pretty good question.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 12, 2015 02:19 AM |
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Muslims aren't going to be a frontrunner voice against Muslim terrorists, because nobody ever is in that situation. Even if you do strongly condemn it, the instinctive human reaction is to avoid attention with somebody in a demographic associated with you. But, once again, we apply a double standard here because there has been so much more negative publicity (proportionally) towards Muslims, and once fear has stuck in a person it's difficult to weed it out.
i.e.
African Americans have a high crime rate. Where is the massive African American decrying of "African American crime"
Hispanics have a high crime rate. Where is the strong Hispanic decrying of "Hispanic crime"
Where is the massive homosexual outcry of homosexual crime?
Where is the massive Christian outcry of the shooting at the clinic?
Or let's dig even deeper:
Where is the massive male outcry towards male violent crime? It's so large.
Or larceny/theft and fraud: much higher rates among women than men. Where is the strong female outcry towards this?
In all of the above scenarios, and any other one you can think of, to a certain extent the answer is, "There is somewhat of an outcry." This isn't 1970. Information is easy to find. Just go to Google and look around at statements of Muslims condemning Islamic terrorist. It's not going to be hard to find them, especially considering the majority of victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslim, and the majority of people that combat Islamic terrorism are Muslim. All of the labels out there do condemn these criminal acts from "their own kind" (as if they had hardly anything in common in the first place besides that one broad label), but none of them are going to be the loudest voice, quite simply because somebody else is going to take far, far more pleasure in calling them out, and probably not with noble intentions. You're never going to match tempo with somebody that does it because they enjoy it.
And, aside from this, it's because all of the demographics are so broad. "Muslim". What is Muslim? It's anything from a timid grocery clerk to a painter to a soldier to a hermit to a terrorist to an engineer to a prostitute. What is homosexual? Such a broad tent of individuals. Everything from grocery clerks to porn stars to priests/pastors to dentists to soldiers to actors. What is Christian? What is African American? Or broader yet: what is black? What is male? What is female? Among all of these groups, there is such an enormous divergence of lifestyles and ideologies, especially the ones not related to a culture/religion.
I don't think it's too much to say that there is a subtle form of racism/prejudice in demanding that a group of people be primarily responsible for condemning a criminal act, for no other reason than because the perpetrator happened to share with them one label in which they have in common. If a black or hispanic or homosexual or male (or any other) person is told - probably with an intonation of presumptuous moral outrage - to vocally condemn the act of another person - a perfect stranger - because that other person was also black, or Hispanic, or homosexual, or male, I think a perfectly valid response would be, "Excuse me?" This mode of thought is impolite at best and crudely bigoted at worse.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 02:33 AM |
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blizzardboy said:
the instinctive human reaction is to avoid attention with somebody in a demographic associated with you.
and there's the pretty good answer. it's ok to be outraged when it's not your people. 
seriously, though; that does kinda make sense. people act like that all the time.
now, to read the rest of what you wrote, blizz. hopefully, i didn't repeat anything needlessly.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 02:35 AM |
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very good point, and well answered, blizz. 
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Serafim
Hired Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 04:33 AM |
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Elodin said:
Quote:
The muslims in the US, especially the US, owe the US nothing.Its not their job to care if some of them go around bombing people. Thats not a law, thats nothing.
America. Love it or leave it. Every citizen of the US owes his allegiance to the US. Any freak who lives here but does not care if America is bombed is scum and should immediately leave for a nation that suits them better.
Anyone living in the US who aids terrorists in any way should be tried for treason.
Any American Muslim who does not express outrage over terrorist attacks is an idiot because right or wrong others will begin to view them with distrust and suspicion.
Muslims pour out in the streets over cartoons but not over terrorist attacks. Why?
There is, to my knowledge, no state patriotism law in the US.
Also, what you are asking is morally right, but that wont happen.
Also, you dont ask the same thing of everyone like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting#Community_response
That guys community said "oh shucks, too bad for the kid. Sorry people".
Unless protsts pay bils or offer free education, I wuldnt care about what happens socially to other people.
Its the job of the police to care about security and prevent terrorism, not me and not anyone else.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 12, 2015 05:15 AM |
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Elodin said:
America. Love it or leave it. Every citizen of the US owes his allegiance to the US. Any freak who lives here but does not care if America is bombed is scum and should immediately leave for a nation that suits them better.
Anyone living in the US who aids terrorists in any way should be tried for treason.
Any American Muslim who does not express outrage over terrorist attacks is an idiot because right or wrong others will begin to view them with distrust and suspicion.
Muslims pour out in the streets over cartoons but not over terrorist attacks. Why?
I've already hashed out my view on this page, but I'd like to reiterate why this quoted post is incoherent:
A Muslim terrorist and a cartoon are two completely different things. The cartoon (as they see it) is a gravely serious affront against their faith, so it is internally logical and predictable within the frame of their worldview to be upset about it, because it is something that targets all Muslims. (Obviously I don't share their sentiments).
A Muslim terrorist - a perfect stranger - committing a violent act isn't something you would go on the street over, because it isn't associated with you. Why would you go to the streets because some creepy guy on the TV shot up some people? I don't do that. Do you?
There is no law in the US legally obliging you to feel or act a certain way when somebody does something criminal, nor could it enforce such a thing if it wanted to. Muslims have zero obligation - none whatsoever - to publicly decry a terrorist that they have nothing to do with, nor does anybody else or any other demographic.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 12, 2015 06:58 AM |
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Elodin said:
Quote:
The muslims in the US, especially the US, owe the US nothing.Its not their job to care if some of them go around bombing people. Thats not a law, thats nothing.
America. Love it or leave it. Every citizen of the US owes his allegiance to the US. Any freak who lives here but does not care if America is bombed is scum and should immediately leave for a nation that suits them better.
Anyone living in the US who aids terrorists in any way should be tried for treason.
Any American Muslim who does not express outrage over terrorist attacks is an idiot because right or wrong others will begin to view them with distrust and suspicion.
Muslims pour out in the streets over cartoons but not over terrorist attacks. Why?
I respect every citizen's right to hold to his/her culture, even living in a very different country, as long as they don't intrude with how other citizens live but terrorism is something else. If I were America's President, I would not tolerate anyone supportive of that, call me dictator all you want, it's my country, not theirs, and they come to America for a better life, it's not America that needs them.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 07:55 AM |
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blizzardboy said:
Muslims have zero obligation - none whatsoever - to publicly decry a terrorist that they have nothing to do with, nor does anybody else or any other demographic.
that doesn't help how people see them. you can't turn a blind eye to something that could be associated with your kind. you have an obligation to speak out about it, if you don't want people thinking you're a terrorist sympathizer. that causes fear-based violence against innocent people. it's already started happening. it happened after 9/11, and it'll keep happening until everyone who could be associated with terrorism does their best to let everyone know they are not on board with it, and in fact, are doing what they can to help rid the world of a people who are tarnishing their muslim way of life.
if they can go up in arms about a cartoon that offends them, then they can sure as hell go up in arms about terrorists using their name; who are making their religion, and their people, look bad. wouldn't that be offensive to them as well? SHOULDN'T that be?
of course, i'm only stating this, in case people want how the world views them, to improve. they have no actual obligation, correct. but they should CARE how people see them. because it could impact their lives in a negative manner. and that's a negativity that can easily be pointed at the whole muslim faith, just like when dumbasses like pat robertson or the westboro church tarnish the christian faith, and make people think that most christians could very well be asshats.
if people LIVE a faith, and they want to be able to be seen as good, then it would be in their best interest, to do what they can to extract what is making them look bad; or at least, to set themselves apart from it.
with groups of people, no matter if they are religious or not, public relations is important. world views are important.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 12, 2015 08:22 AM |
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fred79 said:
if people LIVE a faith, and they want to be able to be seen as good, then it would be in their best interest, to do what they can to extract what is making them look bad; or at least, to set themselves apart from it.
with groups of people, no matter if they are religious or not, public relations is important. world views are important.
Fred for President.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 08:45 AM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Fred for President.
sure, why not?
fred79 said:
and when i come into power, i will have my pick of the finest maidens before i retire into an undisclosed bunker or other obscure location indefinitely, effectively leaving the populace leaderless; and to fend for themselves.
i will make it a rule; that anyone who even attempts to assume authority over the leaderless, be brought to me to be pulled apart and shredded(like pulled pork) by wolves, for my entertainment.
some decades of that ought to set the populace back on track, however temporarily.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 12, 2015 10:11 AM |
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fred79 said:
Drakon-Deus said:
Fred for President.
sure, why not?
fred79 said:
and when i come into power, i will have my pick of the finest maidens before i retire into an undisclosed bunker or other obscure location indefinitely, effectively leaving the populace leaderless; and to fend for themselves.
i will make it a rule; that anyone who even attempts to assume authority over the leaderless, be brought to me to be pulled apart and shredded(like pulled pork) by wolves, for my entertainment.
some decades of that ought to set the populace back on track, however temporarily.
If you would make Romania the official partner of the USA and bring over some female American exchange students here, in exchange for anything you want, I'm cool. 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 10:57 AM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
If you would make Romania the official partner of the USA and bring over some female American exchange students here, in exchange for anything you want, I'm cool.
those currently(and forever) in charge would never give me authority over people. they know i wouldn't play ball their way, and would just have them eaten by different animals. they won't have any use for me until the collapse. then people like me will be a dime a dozen anyway. 
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 12, 2015 11:20 AM |
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fred79 said:
those currently(and forever) in charge would never give me authority over people. they know i wouldn't play ball their way, and would just have them eaten by different animals. they won't have any use for me until the collapse. then people like me will be a dime a dozen anyway.
In that case, I'll have to manage with the pen and the Axe.
Gondor has no king, for Gondor needs no king.
...
Okay, now back to our regularly scheduled program...
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 12, 2015 05:22 PM |
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@fred:
In the real world, yes, disassociating yourself with violence is usually the smart thing to do (and Muslim groups do do this), but it's only done as a necessary concession to fight against prejudice.
But once again, it's hard for Muslims to do this, because when they see this on the news, the human instinct is to shy away in shame/embarrassment and say nothing. They just stay huddled together in their cluster in London or Paris or New York and keep their heads low.
The social dynamics are also complicated and awkward. A large percentage of Muslims view the United States - and the CIA in particular - as terrorists, but at the same time, they would never become a terrorist themselves. They're not radicalized, but they're also not friendly towards mainstream America.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 12, 2015 05:59 PM |
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Quote:
I've already hashed out my view on this page, but I'd like to reiterate why this quoted post is incoherent:
A Muslim terrorist and a cartoon are two completely different things. The cartoon (as they see it) is a gravely serious affront against their faith, so it is internally logical and predictable within the frame of their worldview to be upset about it, because it is something that targets all Muslims. (Obviously I don't share their sentiments).
The above post is not rational. Muslims say drawing a cartoon of Mohammad is a grave sin. Thus when a non-Muslim draws such a cartoon they riot.
Yet when people who identify themselves as Muslims commit mass murder in the name of Allah they do not pour out into the street to protest even though they claim Islam is a religion of peace.
So, a cartoon drawn by a non-Muslim would seem to be a grave matter but killing in the name of Allah is not. The message they are preaching with their actions and inactions differs from "Islam is a religion of peace."
____________
Revelation
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 12, 2015 06:38 PM |
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@Elodin:
That's not the way they see it, and frankly, nor should they.
Islam and protestant Christianity have no central teaching office. Why would they feel strongly compelled to decry somebody whose faith is different than theirs? You're a conservative Christian. An Episcopalian bishop is very liberal. You both fall under the nebulous tent of Christianity, but generally speaking, your ideologies are quite foreign to one another. It actually wouldn't be too hard for you to find more common ground with certain moderate Muslims than you would with certain Christians. Islam is likewise fractured and internally confused. Religion of peace. Death to infidels. Somewhere in between. Whatever. It really just depends on which mosque you stumble into on Friday evening and which guy is up front shooting his mouth, and what his particular hormonal fluctuations are on that day. Cast a die. Textual justifications are retrospective. If somebody is angry and wants to believe that they're doing the right thing by waging jihad, their mind will retrospectively & automatically justify themselves in text. Their personal whims are the chicken, the text is the egg. They don't follow religion. They follow themselves.
Also, I already explained, the cartoon is a political statement directed towards Muslims. A murderer on TV is just that: a murderer, who also happened to have radical religious motivation.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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