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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1634 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 1200 ... 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 ... 1400 1600 1634 · «PREV / NEXT»
verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted October 15, 2015 02:51 PM
Edited by verriker at 14:52, 15 Oct 2015.

Conduit said:
Can someone please explain to me why its so difficult for you guys to make a challenging AI? I look at every other Heroes games and the AI was so much better, and some of those games came out 20 years ago. Why now in H7 is it such a disaster?


it's just a matter of competence, money and passion I think,

earlier games had JVC and the talented Gus Smedstad whose AI was so good he was told to dumb it down so processors of the day could handle it, Heroes 4 delegated AI away from them to NWC's weakest programmers and thus it sucked, Heroes 5 had the passionate fans of Nival (whose AI still wasn't great) and world-class AI engineer Quantomas, and Heroes 6 and 7 AI has been made by bargain basement rookies and interns (no offence) so of course it's broken lol
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Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted October 15, 2015 03:46 PM

Dan,

If the colour change will go ahead, would you please make it an option? I for one like the colours in the game now, and heroes 6 was giving me headaches.

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The_Green_drag
The_Green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 15, 2015 04:00 PM

I'd like to be able to turn the grid off

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PROJ
PROJ


Known Hero
posted October 15, 2015 04:02 PM
Edited by PROJ at 16:03, 15 Oct 2015.

verriker said:
Conduit said:
Can someone please explain to me why its so difficult for you guys to make a challenging AI? I look at every other Heroes games and the AI was so much better, and some of those games came out 20 years ago. Why now in H7 is it such a disaster?


it's just a matter of competence, money and passion I think,

earlier games had JVC and the talented Gus Smedstad whose AI was so good he was told to dumb it down so processors of the day could handle it, Heroes 4 delegated AI away from them to NWC's weakest programmers and thus it sucked, Heroes 5 had the passionate fans of Nival (whose AI still wasn't great) and world-class AI engineer Quantomas, and Heroes 6 and 7 AI has been made by bargain basement rookies and interns (no offence) so of course it's broken lol


It's more complicated than that.  

AI is super, super difficult to do well if the game has any sort of depth to it.  It's kind of a paradox, actually.  If you want the AI to be better, it pays to have a simpler, more easily solve-able game.  The more depth the game has, the more difficult it is to write an AI that can heuristically determine what to do.  On top of this, it's true that game companies rarely hire the best and brightest, and they are working on tight time constraints.  It is probably more prudent for a game company to write scripted asymmetric scenarios and allow the AI to cheat than actually attempt to spend resources creating a "good" AI.  

bottom line: if you want a challenge, play against humans.  If you can write a really good AI, your game is probably lacking depth.

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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted October 15, 2015 04:07 PM

Could this shiny effect on the wood piles be removed? It now looks like it is a pile of metal or some highly polished poles instead of tree trunks. I understand it has been added to make them more visible, but because all resources have this shiny effect it makes them look really similar. It especially makes the wood piles resemble dragon steel a bit.

Ore, shadow steel and starsilver also look very alike. Maybe also remove the shiny effect from ore to show it is not a metal (yet)? Starsilver could do with a new model. Maybe some kind of flask resembling how the resource looks in the resources bar.

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LordFoxton
LordFoxton


Hired Hero
Thin is the wall of illusion
posted October 15, 2015 04:08 PM

The_green_drag said:
Some of the color coding looked good with some factions, but the color options are lacking. I wonder if we could get some non Easter egg colors.


Yeah, Blue Haven actually looks pretty good, reminds me of H5, it's just a pity the Hero doesn't keep his blue clothes on the adventure map.


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3lion
3lion


Known Hero
posted October 15, 2015 04:08 PM
Edited by 3lion at 16:10, 15 Oct 2015.

Hermes said:
Dan,

If the colour change will go ahead, would you please make it an option? I for one like the colours in the game now, and heroes 6 was giving me headaches.


There must be an adjustable slider for saturation and brightness in video options. I think it's the best way.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted October 15, 2015 04:45 PM

PROJ said:
It's more complicated than that.

AI is super, super difficult to do well if the game has any sort of depth to it. It's kind of a paradox, actually. If you want the AI to be better, it pays to have a simpler, more easily solve-able game. The more depth the game has, the more difficult it is to write an AI that can heuristically determine what to do. On top of this, it's true that game companies rarely hire the best and brightest, and they are working on tight time constraints. It is probably more prudent for a game company to write scripted asymmetric scenarios and allow the AI to cheat than actually attempt to spend resources creating a "good" AI.

bottom line: if you want a challenge, play against humans. If you can write a really good AI, your game is probably lacking depth.


very true as well, and certainly another of the many reasons the more convoluted H4, H6 and H7 have failed to achieve good AI lol
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted October 15, 2015 04:55 PM

I think people complain about H7 graphics because of colours. If they are as grey as know, the game is much less attractive for eyes and teherfore in general too.
It is very easy to see it for example on H6 maps, the nature was pretty nice there.
Just compare:
http://static9.cdn.ubi.com/en-GB/images/Haven%20setting%20with%20greentcm2113237.jpg
and
https://gamezroomx.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/homm6-055.jpg

with H7 grey
http://d1vnh8mbrp67em.cloudfront.net/image/file/4/7f/70064/m_m_7.jpg

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properkheldar
properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted October 15, 2015 05:40 PM

The_Green_drag said:
I'd like to be able to turn the grid off


Yea, please. Movement shadow ftw.
____________
"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted October 15, 2015 06:06 PM

Yeah Heroes 7 is really ugly. I don't know what they wanted to accomplish with this gritty look. A more darkish setting maybe? But who would've guessed I'll miss Heroes 6 in that regard (or any regard actually)

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Sempai
Sempai


Known Hero
Ubi is love
posted October 15, 2015 11:07 PM

I didn't notice, if there are people who actually liked this game except some ppl from SC which were sticking the chosen like just in principle disregarding what has been announced or are there bugs and crashes etc.
So @Marble aka @Dies_Irae was one of the most prominent supporters with @Cleglaw and @Sligneris. But thus far @Marble didn't even touch the game yet, @Cleglaw was just swearing (I believe in a week or two he will like the game again (and after that he will hate it again )), @Sligneris... does anyone knows, where is @Sligneris?

So who else? The necromancer 1991 is posting on SC how much does he like the game but whatever, that's just his lifestyle I believe.
I mean is there anyone mindful who really liked the game? And why?

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 15, 2015 11:08 PM

I can guarantee Sligneris does not have the game yet. Asked him and got the answer.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted October 15, 2015 11:33 PM

Sempai said:
I didn't notice, if there are people who actually liked this game except some ppl from SC which were sticking the chosen like just in principle disregarding what has been announced or are there bugs and crashes etc.
So @Marble aka @Dies_Irae was one of the most prominent supporters with @Cleglaw and @Sligneris. But thus far @Marble didn't even touch the game yet, @Cleglaw was just swearing (I believe in a week or two he will like the game again (and after that he will hate it again )), @Sligneris... does anyone knows, where is @Sligneris?

So who else? The necromancer 1991 is posting on SC how much does he like the game but whatever, that's just his lifestyle I believe.
I mean is there anyone mindful who really liked the game? And why?

There's a huge difference between enjoying the game and believing that this game is not only complete, but more importantly that it fulfills our expectations. I consider myself to be a sane person, yet I like the game, like Maurice and Stevie do (at least from what I can deduce from their posts) and these guys are definitely mindful. This game isn't inherently bad, it has its positives - it's still a "Heroes" game, after all, but the sad thing is that it feels... unloved. While I am sure devs did all hey could to make this game, it feels like some officials treated it like a fifth wheel of a car - someone told them to make, so they do as they have to but without any dedication.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 15, 2015 11:38 PM

Indeed. I am currently playing the game and having a fun time doing it. However, that doesn't mean I don't feel that a lot of concepts miss their mark (some even by a long shot) or that there isn't a lot of room to add stuff that can really make it shine - on the contrary. The amount of untapped potential is astonishing and likely not nearly everything will even be scratched before the title is considered "finished".

I don't consider it an AAA title worth 60 Euro's, that's true.

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Sempai
Sempai


Known Hero
Ubi is love
posted October 15, 2015 11:58 PM

Maurice said:

I don't consider it an AAA title worth 60 Euro's, that's true.


Yes, that's exactly the problem. Not just the price, but approach.
It is kinda painful to see the reduction of standards of the series. I mean e.g. the normal way should be from the simple to complicated. Like with skills. And what we see is the way from the complicated skillwheel to a primitive one, from 3d cities to 2d, from the cool stories and charismatic characters to faceless hollow dudes which names are even can't be remembered.
Gruesome things for me. The whole vector is wrong. And according to my own feelings from the beta, the game is really not that bad and mechanics are rather more interesting than in h6. But overall the game is average. Not that bad but any good. There's no that feel like "ok, I will play just one hour more...ok, one more hour and I'm done...gash, screw the school/university, I will play till dawn".
I'm sure that that's not the future for the series which I'd like to support by purchasing this game.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted October 16, 2015 12:05 AM

Paid 35€ for the game. I really like it and yes it pains me to see so much stuff unfinished. Yet my demeanor stays positive (as long as i keep my visits here in check), and those devs sure make it look like this game will be supported more than heroes 6. So that's excellent in my books.
Love the factions(i even enjoy dungeon's racial in battle!!!).
This skillwheel to me(casual player) is smth "new" and exciting. I love spending time thinking what i should learn next, possible synergies, governor stuff. Got some dragon age flashbacks while leveling up and deciding my next ability.
Town development is one of my faves. I d like a tiny bit less restrictions, but in the same time i like that every faction has its own town scheme.
I actually adore color coding. Line ups are never boring to watch over and over again (especially the dungeon-circus with vivid colors)
And 3lion's mod really hits the spot!!
Waiting for large non rush maps that will allow me to chill and develop my heroes and towns.
And an inferno/sanctuary expansion some time.


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sobaka770
sobaka770


Hired Hero
posted October 16, 2015 12:11 AM

Sempai said:
I didn't notice, if there are people who actually liked this game except some ppl from SC which were sticking the chosen like just in principle disregarding what has been announced or are there bugs and crashes etc.
So @Marble aka @Dies_Irae was one of the most prominent supporters with @Cleglaw and @Sligneris. But thus far @Marble didn't even touch the game yet, @Cleglaw was just swearing (I believe in a week or two he will like the game again (and after that he will hate it again )), @Sligneris... does anyone knows, where is @Sligneris?

So who else? The necromancer 1991 is posting on SC how much does he like the game but whatever, that's just his lifestyle I believe.
I mean is there anyone mindful who really liked the game? And why?


Mindful or not, I enjoy this game. I definitely enjoy it way more than Heroes 6, which is not difficult, and almost as much as Heroes 5 at release, which is surprising. Note that I've been playing on Windows 10 on two different computers (rather beefy, 970GTX, 8Gb RAM etc) and I had a minimal amount of bugs on both.  

First-of-all, I find the campaigns very well-done. I like to play the campaigns in Heroes games and these ones are probably the best since Heroes 4. The mission design is varied for once and not just a conquest map followed by a no-castle race map. The story in the campaigns has a simple structure - 6 separate stories and one final campaign) and is definitely better than the convoluted mess of Heroes 6. What I like most so far (and I hope it stays consistent) is that all stories are written in a rather mature way without cheese and terrible lines.

Second, I very much like a lot of minor things in the game like: map scaling with small towns and wider zoom like in Heroes 3, smooth gameplay and general responsiveness when doing things on adventure map and in battle, the fact that most maps don't waste space for useless doodads, simple but effective UI, no end-of-turn warnings, lots of options for skirmish and difficulty (if you misclick once the game autosaves anyway and I hate being constantly asked whether I want to move as I usually don't).

Third, I like hero progression systems, artifacts and the game in general is actually rather well-balanced. This is probably the first Heroes game where shooters are not OP. Some damaging spells seem too strong but so are the buffs/curses which makes for interesting tradeoffs. The skillwheel has some interesting choices and I didn't yet find a totally OP path apart from racial ones, and I like that leveling is rather fast so it never feels like a chore getting to high level.

Last, with the latest patch the game flies on my system. AI turns are fast, loading times are smaller, especially at startup, gameplay is smooth and even combat animations, while a bit lackluster, seem to be better optimised as they don't occur out of sync with sound or other animations.

I think I enjoy it most because I avoided a huge amount of bugs by having a rather powerful system and not playing on a laptop or with an older graphics card. I also didn't expect to be blown away by various fluff. Heroes 5 was very well funded and you could feel the money spent on that game even despite the bugs. Heroes 7 cannot top that but it's a solid effort, I enjoy its campaigns, systems, smoothness and balance. I do believe that developers didn't lie in saying that this is probably the most complete Heroes game at release. (I also hope that the editor is good enough to see some awesome mods, it's UE3 after all)

Negatives: town screens are bad, new rare resources are bland and samey, adventure map visibility is not optimal for buildings and aforementioned resources, combat animations still lack impact (I still want the impact blob from Heroes 5), color palette needs more colors other than brown (and NO FOG), some UI lags when building in town especially, AI needs more work, skillwheel restrictions make random skill system non-viable, multiplayer seems to bug but I don't play it apart from Hotseat.



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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 16, 2015 12:42 AM

When I'm bored this weekend I'll write my thoughts on the game. But for now I'm certainly enjoying it. It definitely could have been much better and it's kinda irritating sometimes to see how close they were to making some parts of the game really fun and challenging...but didn't pull through. I see a lot of potential with some extra content but they do need to change some mechanics first, but nothing game breakin for me.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 16, 2015 01:49 AM
Edited by GenyaArikado at 03:13, 16 Oct 2015.

Ok im at Dungeon 4 map. Where the snow is Fang Bay?

edit: nvm obelisks derp

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