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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1634 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 1200 ... 1236 1237 1238 1239 1240 ... 1400 1600 1634 · «PREV / NEXT»
Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
Official spokesbirb
posted November 04, 2015 06:49 PM

Elvin said:
ThatRedSarah said:

Skill cap...

Just lol

In H5 it made perfect sense that you could not pick all abilities from a skill, since it made you specialize. H7 on the other hand is just not built that way..


Do you think that they could rework H7's system in such a way that it would become possible?
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==Uplay/Steam: Marblethrone==


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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 04, 2015 06:51 PM

Why are their minds so coffined between these arbitrary restrictions anyway. Didn't it ever occur to them that they already have a free/soft cap with experience gains curve? Seriously, what the hell.

Some good news in there otherwise, not arguing that.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted November 04, 2015 06:58 PM

Stevie said:
Why are their minds so coffined between these arbitrary restrictions anyway. Didn't it ever occur to them that they already have a free/soft cap with experience gains curve? Seriously, what the hell.

Some good news in there otherwise, not arguing that.


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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted November 04, 2015 07:04 PM

I really don't get why i, the player, cannot if so choose to, max my hero in a skirmish or scenario map, which i play for my own enjoyment, without having a level or skill cap.

I could even stress this to campaign maps, where the difficulty can decide when and if there is going to be a level cap per map or a skill cap.

But seriously, if i wanna max the skills of my hero, i paid to be able to do that, didn't i?

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3lion
3lion


Known Hero
posted November 04, 2015 07:14 PM
Edited by 3lion at 19:16, 04 Nov 2015.

About skill cap:
Lvi 1-30 no restrictions. Hero gain one skill point and one attribute point for each level.
Lvl 31-40: hero gain one skill point at every second level and one attribute at each level.
Lvl 40+: hero gain one skill point every third level and one attribute at each level.
Fair enough?
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Creature Scale mod (patch 2.2.1 compatible)

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted November 04, 2015 07:31 PM

Things that shouldn't have needed a patch in the first place, because they were needed to be in the game.

This is just a big joke, if one looks it from a professional, business, game development view.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 04, 2015 08:32 PM

Ability gains are way too powerful, with the XP curve much too shallow.

People want to be able to get more levels, because it's no fun to play big maps, but things are balanced extremely poorly.

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 04, 2015 10:28 PM

I don't really get why limit the skill-point gain past 30 on generic skill-system like h7 has. All it does is enforce the fact that classes have useless  filler skills in them that never get picked(and paragon extra exp will never feel worthwhile since you lost those points forever). Really you might as well make the system give skill-point every two levels since the start to make them feel like they got some value. I always end up after one or two skills just stacking the points and when I got some 5-10 points I may open the skill-tree to use them. The game just becomes so easy after you get those one or two key-skills that opening the skill-wheel feels too much work with no value gained.

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Gomaki
Gomaki

Shaper of Lore
Community Manager, Limbic Ent.
posted November 04, 2015 11:46 PM
Edited by Gomaki at 00:04, 05 Nov 2015.

This is a great discussion. So that point about skill cap is exactly my words it's by no means what is actually going to happen which is good why I have you lot hear to help direct what you would like to see.

My thought process on a cap is that people would find it a bit boring if you just got everything and would make picking you skills not really have much significance due to the fact you could or would just eventually get them all anyway. I'm surprised to read people are so adamantly opposed to the idea of a cap when all I hear is how the random skilling from heroes 5 was God like, but why would it matter if its random if you can just have everything anyway? However it's beyond to point, sometimes constraints are good sometimes not,in this situation maybe it's bad.

So let's brainstorm what we could have instead of a skill cap.

Increase amount of exo required to level making each skill point wochanges.e.

Only provide skill points every X levels and increase stat gain inbetween and make the stat gain for each hero different so it provides a bit if uniqueness.

Keep things as they are, no cap on skill gain.

New ideas.

Hit me up and I'll start talking about this tomorrow at work and getting some more feedback.

Hope you all enjoy the next patch and the color changes

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 05, 2015 12:12 AM

Gomaki said:
I'm surprised to read people are so adamantly opposed to the idea of a cap when all I hear is how the random skilling from heroes 5 was God like, but why would it matter if its random if you can just have everything anyway?


But that's the point: you couldn't. There were a total of 11 skills for 5 slots (excluding the Racial) if memory serves me right. As such, the player had a choice on new skills offered to fill those five slots. That was the cap. However you filled up to that cap was the players' choice - but the premise was that from the onset, all Skills had a chance to appear in the Hero's setup.

The same applies to the Perks. Each skill in Heroes 5 featured maybe like up to a dozen Perks, but you could only ever pick 3 from among those. Again, the player had the choice on which ones he could pick - and note that the Skill level didn't require any amount of Perks to advance to the next higher Tier. Perks themselves had Tier requirements, though: some Perks couldn't be picked if some prerequisite Perk wasn't picked first. Coupled with the limited Perk slots, you had to make some choices - but you had no restrictions otherwise.

I'm not sure you want to go that way, though. It means a rather big redesign of the Skillwheel setup.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted November 05, 2015 02:42 AM

Gomaki said:
My thought process on a cap is that people would find it a bit boring if you just got everything and would make picking you skills not really have much significance due to the fact you could or would just eventually get them all anyway. I'm surprised to read people are so adamantly opposed to the idea of a cap when all I hear is how the random skilling from heroes 5 was God like, but why would it matter if its random if you can just have everything anyway? However it's beyond to point, sometimes constraints are good sometimes not,in this situation maybe it's bad.


if more people in Limbic had actually bothered to play Heroes 5 before starting work on Heroes 7, it might be less surprising lol
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted November 05, 2015 07:26 AM

And then we'd get the next patch in 6 months. Great idea, are you sure you dont already work with ubi? lol

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 05, 2015 07:55 AM

My suggestion would currently be to drop the level cap completely for primary skills, but keep the current cap for secondary skills and abilities - not that it makes much difference, since the system is a disaster, no matter what.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted November 05, 2015 08:03 AM

@ gomaki, I think with the new patch experience gain is normal on first levels. What we would like is to alter experience table for levels after 10+. For example in heroes 5 level 30 is attainable at twice the experience points compared to heroes 7. If you make the experience curve that steep and continue to increase XP needed after level 30 even further you don`t need any restrictions because only few maps will offer for example 40 and that will be after a lot of adventuring which will feel rewarding.

Increasing XP needed for levels brings one problem though - Mentor. With level 35+ hero one could be able to breed a new hero of level 25-26 that could be viable strategy. I propose to ditch mentor and put an ability that gives +1 to all stats. This way paragon becomes somewhat like Enlightment from heroes 5 but in the same time it will not be the same no brainer because fewer classes have it at Master Level and basically balanced classes who lack stats have paragon.

@gomaki, please spoil us that pyramid on the adventure map in the screenshot is a ballista shop on the map.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted November 05, 2015 08:12 AM

Maurice said:

I'm not sure you want to go that way, though. It means a rather big redesign of the Skillwheel setup.


Indeed, so instead of having a huge wheel,we have a wheel the same size as heroes' 5. So for variety (since we have more skills)we have hero classes. But those need to be more diverse asap.
So since in heroes 5 ranks didn't cost a point, we should have maybe 10 more points, skill cap-wise. Or make ranks free and get the rank bonus by selecting a perk on that rank. And that's that. Why complicate everything? I think i saw people whining about the skill cap. It was late though and i was half asleep.Really??????
And don't forget that now you can choose more than one perk for every rank.
remove level cap
remove rank cost or add more skillpoints to spend there
make classes more diverse
And that's that. Simplest thing ever.
Pleasing heroes community is a wild good chase. -.-


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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted November 05, 2015 10:04 AM
Edited by Articun at 10:06, 05 Nov 2015.

To be fair, i would like to have the option to choose what hadicap i want, i think most will agree with that.

I am a casual player and when i get the time to play i don't want to overthink what and why. BUT! Heroes is a stradegy game and it appeals to a lot of people. Even i enjoy a good challenge from time to time.

So, i propose you remove the level cap entirely and drop the idea of skill cap, BUT, make options available for level cap and/or skill cap before the map. That way along with the difficulty settings, the players that want to push themselves to the limits can choose whatever handicap they want in single player mode (skirmish/scenarios).

After all, as stated above, most maps will not allow for that much progression over level 30.

Possible Options
1. Unlimited leveling
2. Level cap at 30
3. Skill Cap at 30
4. Unlimited leveling & skill points every 2nd level
5. Level cap at 30 & skill points every second level

This way you create different cases and with different difficulty levels can appeal to a range of audience, from the hardcore strategist-tactictian, to the nonbrainer player that playes for fun.

I mean, why not give the options that will satisfy many, instead of opting for one option that will disatisfy a lot?

As for balancing, it is not an issue in this point if the rule applies to the whole map and players. So the AI has the same handicap as you, but you have to be more resourceful in what you choose and when in the game you choose it.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted November 05, 2015 10:26 AM

Without trying to be mean,given the capabilities and resources that this dev team has,this sounds way complex and risky for the game's already weird coding.
And to be honest given the audience of the game no need for such an option. It s cool in general but here it will be a waste of time,resources and it will mostly lead to more bugs.
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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted November 05, 2015 10:31 AM
Edited by Articun at 10:34, 05 Nov 2015.

I don't know how hard it can be to be coded into the game, but honestly, i don't think it a waste of time. I think that for a game of 2015 it should have been the norm and out with the game.

We scream for replayability and one way to achieve that is by having various modes. Those modes may never be used, but hell, it can really be appreciated if the game has them.

Also, sorry if I am being wrong, but i don't think that this modes can create balancing issues. They are meant to make the game harder. And again it relies on the map for if they pose true hardship or not.

In the end, i am talking as the casual gamer that cannot spent more than 30-45 min on the game every day, but still i am loyal enough to want to see the game evolve in customization.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted November 05, 2015 10:42 AM

You re 200% right. Yet it seems that there are endless possibilities for a bug in this game
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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted November 05, 2015 10:50 AM

ChrisD1 said:
You re 200% right. Yet it seems that there are endless possibilities for a bug in this game


It is not the right set of mind to be afraid of asking something for the game just because it might pop a bug. And when did this bug phobia come from in the first place (away with the spider cult Verriker ).

The game has bugs, true. And the game will probably continue to have bugs. This is the result of a rushed release. But, so far we've seen that the dev team has proven to be quite adamant in trying to iron out the game. In this positive light and in the involvement of the community in a more active way, i think we should try to overcome this "Oh my Gawd!! It's a bug!! It might spawn other bugs" phobia and try to implement what the game should have had.

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