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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
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26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
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7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
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31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1634 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 1200 ... 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 ... 1400 1600 1634 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 02, 2016 11:24 PM

Not a wise decision? It seems as wise as it gets from where I stand. I don't know, what you're saying here is very disheartening to me.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted January 03, 2016 01:11 AM

Think a bit about it. If hypothetically Ubisoft would give me a call and ask me "Well, we would like to explore a H4 HD remake. If we provide you with the source code, could you develop it as you see fit?", what would you want me to do? Answering "No, you messed up H6 and H7"? Essentially this would throw away a chance to rectify things and prove our point.
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Will the TBS genre evolve? Yes!

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted January 03, 2016 06:22 AM

Happy New Year, everyone.

And good to have something to look forward to, Quantomas, in spite of all things gone awry in my expectations from H7.
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Science isn't about WHY. It's about WHY NOT.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 03, 2016 10:21 AM

Quantomas said:
Think a bit about it. If hypothetically Ubisoft would give me a call and ask me "Well, we would like to explore a H4 HD remake. If we provide you with the source code, could you develop it as you see fit?", what would you want me to do? Answering "No, you messed up H6 and H7"? Essentially this would throw away a chance to rectify things and prove our point.

Enlighten me here, but ... why are we discussing a H4 remake? I mean, I won't say that H4 didn't have some merits, because it certainly did, but apart from H6 (and H1), I can't think of another chapter of the series that I'd rather leave in the grave than H4.

Now, a H5 remake on the other hand, that would make sense. Fix the technical problems, and furthermore we'd have an excuse to work from that and add new content and forget H6 and H7 altogether. Now that would have my interest ...
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What will happen now?

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Groovy
Groovy

Tavern Dweller
posted January 03, 2016 10:44 AM

Hi Quantomas

It's awesome to hear from you!

I've spent the time since Eternal Essence closed down working on my own fantasy world, tabletop game and novel. It's far from finished, but if there's anything there that you'd like to use, you are more than welcome to.

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted January 03, 2016 11:11 AM

alcibiades said:
Enlighten me here, but ... why are we discussing a H4 remake? I mean, I won't say that H4 didn't have some merits, because it certainly did, but apart from H6 (and H1), I can't think of another chapter of the series that I'd rather leave in the grave than H4.

Now, a H5 remake on the other hand, that would make sense. Fix the technical problems, and furthermore we'd have an excuse to work from that and add new content and forget H6 and H7 altogether. Now that would have my interest ...

Talking about H4 makes sence since in comparison it is a relatively bug free and content rich game. I am however unsure what could be salvaged out of H6 and H7 since they both seem pretty horribly coded if going by the number of bugs. H7 might be salvageable but Ubi won't give permission sice it is the current title and since H7=H6.2 the same applys for H6.
H5 only really needed the AI patch to be complete so there is not much we could add apart from completely new content/factions.
At this point starting with a clean sheat would be the best. As far as I know 3D model costs are not that expensive as UbiLimic make them out to be. Sure, having many units can increase the overall cost quickly but I'd rather the initial project only have a few units but with proper animation instead of what H7 has to offer. An eventual Kickstarter could lay bare the costs of implementing a faction(and most likely uncover all of Ubis lies about the budget.)
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2016 11:55 AM
Edited by Stevie at 12:00, 03 Jan 2016.

Quantomas said:
Think a bit about it. If hypothetically Ubisoft would give me a call and ask me "Well, we would like to explore a H4 HD remake. If we provide you with the source code, could you develop it as you see fit?", what would you want me to do? Answering "No, you messed up H6 and H7"? Essentially this would throw away a chance to rectify things and prove our point.


Well, you make it out to sound as inoffensive as possible but don't we know better than that? They are too blinded by pride and offense towards the community to even consider giving us the source codes or anything else for that matter. Not to mention that if by any miracle that comes to pass one day, they will without a doubt seek to meddle in whatever is envisioned.

However, if I understood right, that's only available for potential remakes and not for Heroes of the Ancient Order, which you said aims to maintain financial independence (and I hope independence in every other aspect). So I guess it's a bit premature to argue what Ubisoft / Team Erwan might try to do as long as it doesn't reflect upon this community project.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2016 12:36 PM

HoMM 4 is actually the only Heroes game a remake makes sense, for a couple of reasons that, imo, don't need to be discussed.

And if you ask me, a project like that, HoMM 4 HD+ (the "+" meaning, a couple of adjustments for the AI and the Difficulty system in general) makes a lot more sense than a community-based NEW HoMM. The reason for that is, a new HoMM game needs a very high technical standard (you want to have a top game engine, because you need a great map editor, RMG, and Sim Turns plus a lot more) and of course it needs a goddamn VISION of what the game should look like and play when it's finished, of how the elements of the game would intertwine and so on.
The last game the latter was acceptable was HoMM 5; technically, however, 5-7 are all disappointing and fall short.

I don't see any community-based "vision", actually.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted January 03, 2016 12:46 PM

The only way I would see a valid modern HOMM game would be to build mechanics from H5 and expand them and have visuals NWC style.

It is wonderful idea to develop own engine, that's what pros do.

H4 remake sounds great but I wonder what makes you think Ubisoft will contact you to give the source code.
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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted January 03, 2016 01:03 PM

JollyJoker said:
I don't see any community-based "vision", actually.
At this point we don't yet really need a vision because implementing what we consider the best additions to the series from previous versions is a big enough task. Making a proper 'best of' Heroes will provide a solid basis unlike Ubis' version of 'best of'.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2016 01:26 PM
Edited by Stevie at 13:27, 03 Jan 2016.

JollyJoker said:
I don't see any community-based "vision", actually.


Well, we all have our individual vision about how the game should be. From that to a community-based vision all is needed is discussions and some brainstorming / theorycrafting.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 03, 2016 01:40 PM

Are you even sure Ubi has H4 source-code? Didn't they say about H3 too that they couldn't get the expansions to the HD-version because they didn't have or they lost the source-code?

PS I think H4 could offer quite good base, I always felt it had good innovations and lots of potential.

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Datapack
Datapack


Famous Hero
posted January 03, 2016 02:09 PM
Edited by Datapack at 14:09, 03 Jan 2016.

Actually a couple of years ago Ubi were planning on putting Heroes 4 on Steam but didn't follow through for whatever reason.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2016 02:46 PM

@ fuChris

Best of Features Heroes sucks for more than one reason. It's generally a bad idea because a game is more than the sum of its features.

@ Stevie

Democracy doesn't work with visions.

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3lion
3lion


Known Hero
posted January 03, 2016 03:28 PM

I tired of this oldfagous snow. I can't stand the idea of a yet another remake, remaster, reincarnation or any other re-.. Enough. The only new thing that happened to the Heroes series since Heroes 1 was a 3D graphics. Don't you people want something new already?
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Creature Scale mod (patch 2.2.1 compatible)

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Belisarius
Belisarius


Promising
Known Hero
posted January 03, 2016 03:52 PM
Edited by Belisarius at 15:59, 03 Jan 2016.

nice to have you back Quantomas

alcibiades said:
Quote:
Now, a H5 remake on the other hand, that would make sense.


+1

magnomagus MMH5.5 http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41303

+1

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted January 03, 2016 04:06 PM

JollyJoker said:
Best of Features Heroes sucks for more than one reason. It's generally a bad idea because a game is more than the sum of its features.
Please name those reasons. Those features are the best because of very good reasons.
I understand where you are coming from but since H4 features have been randomly implemented and thrown out for no particular reason. Some were bad butsome of those I really liked while there are those I can not imagine a game without anymore. Don't let Ubis' version of 'best of' taint the picture of what really could be a 'best of'.

Quote:
Democracy doesn't work with visions.
This however is true. In the end someone has to take the rudder and steer the franchise in one directon or the other while keeping in mind the financial ramifications as well. this is what the game needs and this is exactly where Ubi failed at spectacularly.
I'm sure everyone would like 20 factions with 15 creatures as well but no amount of brainstorming will make that work.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted January 03, 2016 04:12 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 19:04, 03 Jan 2016.

A remake wouldn't make sense IMHO. What actually the series truly needs is a breath of fresh air while it still maintains a heroes vibe, I'd recommend to distant the game even from the classic factions, still keep the classic heroes play with towns, heroes, battles and adventure map, but add something new to it, maybe a political system, a on/off plugin system that works something like WoG's options, a more dynamic market system, more faction skills, like dual racials. We don't need any more remakes, H1 got H2 as a remake itself, H2 got succession wars h3 mod, h3 got HotA and WoG, h4 got equilibris, h5 got 5.5, h6 got h7 and h7 may rot all that I care. We had a tentative to make a community game building a new isometric engine with OpenGL, but due to lack of time and the difficulty of carrying such a big project, we put it on halt. I may not be a veteran programmer, but if Quantomas needs one more C++/Java programmer, then I'm willing to help with what I know.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2016 04:35 PM

fuChris said:
JollyJoker said:
Best of Features Heroes sucks for more than one reason. It's generally a bad idea because a game is more than the sum of its features.
Please name those reasons. Those features are the best because of very good reasons.
I understand where you are coming from but since H4 features have been randomly implemented and thrown out for no particular reason. Some were bad butsome of those I really liked while there are those I can not imagine a game without anymore. Don't let Ubis' version of 'best of' taint the picture of what really could be a 'best of'.
"Best of" means looking back, trying to dissect why what worked and what didn't, then try to bring it all together. Even if that would work, which I strongly doubt, because often a feature works because of a synergy with one or more other features, it wouldn't justify a new game. A new game should be based on a new idea or take on the theme, otherwise there is no reason for a new game in the first place.

For me, the "best of" nonsense Ubi came with was like saying, "hey, we have not the slightest clue how a fresh take on the theme should or could look like, so what we do instead is picking some morsels out of the old games and patch them together, hoping that we can salvage something out of the 6 games we already have".

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 03, 2016 05:29 PM

JollyJoker said:
For me, the "best of" nonsense Ubi came with was like saying, "hey, we have not the slightest clue."


You can stop there .

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