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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 02:28 PM |
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ThatRedSarah said:
Small creatures move forwards like you illustrated.
I'm glad you are not a game designer lol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 17, 2015 02:32 PM |
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just spin the chart around a bit so they move straight. That's how H3 did it 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 02:35 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
just spin the chart around a bit so they move straight. That's how H3 did it
Exactly! And in this case it is impossible to create a symmetrical big creature. The only appropriate way is to make a big creature in seven hexes. Too big imo. That why Nival switched for squares.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 02:37 PM |
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3lion said:
I'm glad you are not a game designer lol
lol  You do realize that that is only the diagram for the movement calculation? The actual movement animation could be just straight from point A to B, without any zigzag hopping 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 17, 2015 02:40 PM |
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nah, just make the hexes smaller and have a lot more of them. we can easily get up to like 19 hexes given there are enough of them on any field.
here are some ideas from me:
notice the 4-by-2. you can have that be symmetrical simply through having the hex going first change with movement and allows for interesting positioning by changing the shape, say, twisting it into somewhat of an L-shape if you move that way.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 02:45 PM |
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@kiryu133
Cool ideas! I think making the hexes smaller would be a good solution. Having more than two creatures sizes would be pretty great.
Also, nice diagram and bonus points for actually coloring in the hexes by hand and not using the paint bucket tool
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 17, 2015 02:45 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:46, 17 Sep 2015.
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No we don't. King's Bounty has done so very successfully, with size being conveyed through a combination of visuals, stats and abilities. Despite all units being one size, you can tell at a glance which units are supposed to be bigger and the abilities support their size. Like the royal snakes that have a lunging attack on opponents 1 tile away. The giants that have an earthquake attack when landing on the ground after a jump. Steel armour being available to the biggest human/undead troops. The giant turtle boss that can knock back enemies.
This is a concept that can be expanded and is a lot more imaginative than what we've gotten in H7. For instance.. who wouldn't love an aoe earthquake attack when the titans retaliate by stomping their foot down?
Age of wonders 2 did it pretty well too:
Check their units. Everything clearly distinguished from the normal militia, to the pegasus riders, to the large titans.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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don_komandorr
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 02:54 PM |
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This is not Heroes hexses:
This is heores hexses - creatures can walk horizontally in a straight line
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted September 17, 2015 02:55 PM |
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I agree with Elvin that King's Bounty did a good job. BUt if you really need to have more than 1 space occupied, H3 is the way to go IMO.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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PROJ
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 02:56 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
nah, just make the hexes smaller and have a lot more of them. we can easily get up to like 19 hexes given there are enough of them on any field.
here are some ideas from me:
notice the 4-by-2. you can have that be symmetrical simply through having the hex going first change with movement and allows for interesting positioning by changing the shape, say, twisting it into somewhat of an L-shape if you move that way.
This technically works, but I find it becomes difficult to read several turns ahead doing this. One thing I do like about squares is that the execution part (reading movement several turns ahead) feels much easier, despite of some of the oddness (1.4 movement diagonally being the primary one).
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 02:56 PM |
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Edited by 3lion at 14:58, 17 Sep 2015.
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ThatRedSarah said:
The actual movement animation could be just straight from point A to B, without any zigzag hopping
No it's not. Cuz if I want to move my unit only one hex forward, then where he will stop? On the position 1 or 2? Or maybe 3? How it will count? What if there are obstacles and any other creatures nearby? On a position 2 for example...
Oh come on... People, Nival already came through all the options. There is an article from the developers why they switched for squares. it is really impossible to use hexes in 3D with big creatures. There are 2 options: make all creatures to fit into one hex (King's Bounty way), or switch for squares (Heroes V way). Sic!
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted September 17, 2015 03:02 PM |
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3lion said:
it is really impossible to use hexes in 3D with big creatures.
How so? What would prevent you to implement H3 battlefield in 3D?
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 03:06 PM |
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Elvin said:
King's Bounty has done so very successfully, with size being conveyed through a combination of visuals, stats and abilities.
Indeed
Big creature is not just about visuals. It's about placement on a battlefield. By making all creatures technically in the same size, you simply erase this feature from the game.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 03:08 PM |
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@3lion
First of all, im not saying this is the best way. Just something i was thinking about.
But in your example, if you only have one movement point you can choose to go either to tile 1 or tile 2. Now you have advanced one vertical row forwards as you intended to. If you want to move to tile 3 then you need two points of movement. And if there is an obstacle in tile 2 you just use tiles 1 and 3. The animation would also go according the tiles just as you would be going around other units and not through them.
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 03:08 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
3lion said:
it is really impossible to use hexes in 3D with big creatures.
How so? What would prevent you to implement H3 battlefield in 3D?
Big. Creatures. Problem.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 17, 2015 03:20 PM |
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Now back to H7 actual things. I like the fact that right clicking on a mob shows in how many stacks it is split. However it is not dynamic like in previous heroes series depending on hero and army strength but fixed.
This leads to two problems - I managed to kill 36 Medusa Sorceress with just 60 haven shooters and only 4 sentinels loss because they were fixed in 1 stack. Threat was DEADLY.
The other problem is the opposite when your army is strong enough but shooters are still split in too many stacks so you lose single 1s for no reason.(We don`t take into account the case when one stack can`t kill 1 singleton of your army).
So I like it to have the stacks visible so calculations can be made but at least they must be dynamic because it creates imbalance.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted September 17, 2015 03:21 PM |
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3lion said:
Big. Creatures. Problem.
Why? In H3 you have 1x1 and 2x1 creatures. Just make everything in 3D graphics, it will still function as in H3.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2015 03:22 PM |
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@FrostyMuadDib man, just read through two previous pages...
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted September 17, 2015 03:26 PM |
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3lion said:
@FrostyMuadDib man, just read through two previous pages...
I did. And I do not see that 3D is restricting, so you can't implement hexes. It is just the way it looks. Mechanics would be the same, you just get a different look. However, this is not the right place to discuss this, as we only have square tiles in H7.
@Natalka
I agree with you 100% on stack splitting.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 17, 2015 03:42 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:46, 17 Sep 2015.
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Avirosb said:
A centaur used to take up more space than a giant on the battlefield.
This hexes discussion reminds me when I was trying to illustrate how I would have envisioned H7 in 2D last year (if you don't see the hexes right away you have to wait a bit).
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
