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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted October 01, 2015 05:21 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 17:22, 01 Oct 2015.
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sobaka770 said:
I don't see why you are then on Heroes 7 forums if you don't own the game. Maybe if you did, you'd see that it does a lot of things well. For example, the Haven campaign mission design is superior to any previous Heroes game official map in my opinion. Map design is interesting and the game does have the just-one-more-move feel which was absent from Heroes 6 for sure.
And for all the skillwheel ranting, it actually works fine. They changed some values since beta and there are some interesting choices in picking skills. Logistics only gives 1 movement point only, paragon only gives 5% extra xp? Thank God these are no longer mandatory picks. Archers got rebalanced and its probably the first Heroes game where shooting units don't feel broken.
Things that need attention are to solve a number if launch bugs, fix simturns in MP, improve the AI and the editor tools. So, yes, the game needs polish and one-two months of proper support.
However, based on actual experience with the game, it is not a disgrace to the franchise, nor a hack job. It is also definitely not a spiritual successor to Heroes 6. It plays vastly differently, it has a solid core, a foundation for future which is extremely important. Point is: Don't just bash thee game based on hearsay, or ramble Verriker-style, it is in better shape at launch than Heroes 5 or 6 were and has an immense potential to overshadow both.
If you don't keep an open mind to new systems, and don't give a game a fair chance then you can play Heroes 3 and stay on that forum. You cannot expect WoG maps created out of the gate, it took years to make those and campaign maps are great so far.
dear new user with two posts, welcome to Heroes Community first of all,
secondly, I speak up in the Heroes 7 forum because I am following the direction of Heroes 7 for better or worse, without ever instructing any fellow Heroes player to stay silent or quit "ranting" in defense or critique of the product, so please afford others reasonable courtesy and tolerance if they mean no harm to you lol
you cannot reasonably accuse anyone who spent money on Heroes 6, hated it, then followed this game for a year, spent a year lobbying to improve it, attended fandays at Ubisoft request, and played both betas of close-mindedness or not giving the game a fair chance,
with countless promotions, videos, streams, user impressions, piracy, demos and reviews out there we have a myriad of avenues to satisfactorily evaluate whether this game is a hack job without being fooled twice and slapping down $60 for the "privilege" in advance, which is an absurd expectation,
meanwhile as I always say, potential is not currency, Heroes 6 had immense potential, the universe of Stephanie Meyer's Twilight had immense potential, but you cannot condemn anyone for refusing to invest money and trust in stillborn potential when Steam's cautionary tale player reviews are glowing so red we can see them from outer space lol
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 05:58 PM |
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sobaka770 said:
Don't just bash thee game based on hearsay, or ramble Verriker-style, it is in better shape at launch than Heroes 5 or 6 were and has an immense potential to overshadow both.
Okay, so just because the game has a better launch than H5 and 6 (according to you) we shouldn't criticise the game?
Seems reasonable 
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LoneChinchilla
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 01, 2015 06:10 PM |
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Manual
Is there any official game manual? Any fan manual in the works?
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 01, 2015 06:10 PM |
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Bitula said:
farfromrefuge said:
2. Core/Elite/Champion system. I am sorry, did you not notice the hate for it? It literally kills any sense of progress in game! Previously we had seven subsequent "levels" of creatures and each new one offered some power increase over the previous one. Now there are three.
This is/was my major concern also. I wonder who asked for this? Are there really fans in existence who prefer this over the 7 tiers?
actually this is not a problem if specialization are well done. this tiers system is showing only the building tree and not a scale of power. For example, in heroes 3 you have dwarves with 20 hit points and serpent fly with 22 hit points - if they are figthing one against one, there s a lot of chance for draw (level 2 against level 3)...
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 01, 2015 06:18 PM |
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Ubi_Stevie, could you please feedback the flanking system and the arcane knowledge.
I would appreciate so much 
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 06:26 PM |
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Edited by Bitula at 18:30, 01 Oct 2015.
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malax83 said:
Bitula said:
farfromrefuge said:
actually this is not a problem if specialization are well done. this tiers system is showing only the building tree and not a scale of power. For example, in heroes 3 you have dwarves with 20 hit points and serpent fly with 22 hit points - if they are figthing one against one, there s a lot of chance for draw (level 2 against level 3)...
In H5 there is no such thing and in H3 I guess it’s just a rare example from your side. As I understand in H7 both costs per unit and creature power (individual) are scaled through the 3 tiers instead of 7. Can be, it is not a huge problem, but it is pointless, it just takes away the joy of progress, it’s like Hero levels capped at 3 instead of 30. How would that feel… I just don’t get it, why was this needed?
Edit: I mean it takes away something and in return adds completly nothing.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 06:29 PM |
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malax83 said:
Ubi_Stevie, could you please feedback the flanking system and the arcane knowledge.
I would appreciate so much
Both unchanged from CB2 from what I've seen.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 01, 2015 06:39 PM |
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Bitula said:
Edit: I mean it takes away something and in return adds completly nothing.
Yes i imagine it s not completely reasonnable as an explication. I don t agree with you cause i m thinking you mistaken with the word "progress". This is not a progress, it s a scale of power - progress is saying under line that the previous creature is less able to win a fitgh with or without some cool specialization.
For new example, a fitgh between a monarch wyvern and a ogre magi. the level 6 will probably win with a little.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 01, 2015 06:48 PM |
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Stevie said:
malax83 said:
Ubi_Stevie, could you please feedback the flanking system and the arcane knowledge.
I would appreciate so much
Both unchanged from CB2 from what I've seen.
I have some hope for flanking - yes i do even i m a bit depressive for now. But it seems reasonnable to think AI from battle is far easier to improve than the AI heroes adventure.
AK is a trick - fake rule.
this "thing" has been created to paste the lore to the magic mecanism. i know you re not concern but it s blowing out my eyes.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 06:52 PM |
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malax83 said:
Bitula said:
Edit: I mean it takes away something and in return adds completly nothing.
Yes i imagine it s not completely reasonnable as an explication. I don t agree with you cause i m thinking you mistaken with the word "progress". This is not a progress, it s a scale of power - progress is saying under line that the previous creature is less able to win a fitgh with or without some cool specialization.
For new example, a fitgh between a monarch wyvern and a ogre magi. the level 6 will probably win with a little.
In H5 it is both progress and power, higher tiers meant objectively stronger individual creatures including specialization. I don’t see what specialization has to do with this, H5 had these also, or what do you mean by specialization? I thought it is the stuff like no-retaliation etc. And still I don’t understand: what is the advantage of a 3 tier system. What is that specific plus it gives compared to the 7 tier? And if nothing, then why change it?
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 01, 2015 07:01 PM |
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Bitula said:
And still I don’t understand: what is the advantage of a 3 tier system. What is that specific plus it gives compared to the 7 tier? And if nothing, then why change it?
I think the best way to explain it would be the 3-3-1 as a futchbàl strategy but there s nothing to do with this sport.
It gives nothing, until H7 which brings another thing bad : one of the three core / champion is better than the other. seriously what an idea ! 
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sobaka770
Hired Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 07:15 PM |
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verriker said:
sobaka770 said:
I don't see why you are then on Heroes 7 forums if you don't own the game. Maybe if you did, you'd see that it does a lot of things well. For example, the Haven campaign mission design is superior to any previous Heroes game official map in my opinion. Map design is interesting and the game does have the just-one-more-move feel which was absent from Heroes 6 for sure.
And for all the skillwheel ranting, it actually works fine. They changed some values since beta and there are some interesting choices in picking skills. Logistics only gives 1 movement point only, paragon only gives 5% extra xp? Thank God these are no longer mandatory picks. Archers got rebalanced and its probably the first Heroes game where shooting units don't feel broken.
Things that need attention are to solve a number if launch bugs, fix simturns in MP, improve the AI and the editor tools. So, yes, the game needs polish and one-two months of proper support.
However, based on actual experience with the game, it is not a disgrace to the franchise, nor a hack job. It is also definitely not a spiritual successor to Heroes 6. It plays vastly differently, it has a solid core, a foundation for future which is extremely important. Point is: Don't just bash thee game based on hearsay, or ramble Verriker-style, it is in better shape at launch than Heroes 5 or 6 were and has an immense potential to overshadow both.
If you don't keep an open mind to new systems, and don't give a game a fair chance then you can play Heroes 3 and stay on that forum. You cannot expect WoG maps created out of the gate, it took years to make those and campaign maps are great so far.
dear new user with two posts, welcome to Heroes Community first of all,
secondly, I speak up in the Heroes 7 forum because I am following the direction of Heroes 7 for better or worse, without ever instructing any fellow Heroes player to stay silent or quit "ranting" in defense or critique of the product, so please afford others reasonable courtesy and tolerance if they mean no harm to you lol
you cannot reasonably accuse anyone who spent money on Heroes 6, hated it, then followed this game for a year, spent a year lobbying to improve it, attended fandays at Ubisoft request, and played both betas of close-mindedness or not giving the game a fair chance,
with countless promotions, videos, streams, user impressions, piracy, demos and reviews out there we have a myriad of avenues to satisfactorily evaluate whether this game is a hack job without being fooled twice and slapping down $60 for the "privilege" in advance, which is an absurd expectation,
meanwhile as I always say, potential is not currency, Heroes 6 had immense potential, the universe of Stephanie Meyer's Twilight had immense potential, but you cannot condemn anyone for refusing to invest money and trust in stillborn potential when Steam's cautionary tale player reviews are glowing so red we can see them from outer space lol
First of all thank you, glad to be here.
Second, it's true that I don't usually post on these forums, however I've been reading for a long time. The reason why I don't post is because I don't have time to get embroidered into every discussion about HoMM7 and I like a large variety of games so I post more on NeoGAF and the like.
Third, I do understand that I'm in no way as prominent a member of community as 95% people here, but I've spent months parsing through many "avenues" to get information about the development of Heroes 7, I participated in both betas and left feedback. I've also been playing the game since HoMM2 extensively, although I mostly enjoy single player campaigns and hotseat skirmish with friends over online multiplayer or user-created campaigns and mods.
Here's the gist: the criticism of this game, especially on this forum, is disproportional to the actual amount of problems it has and its perception is worse than what the game actually deserves.
Some of it comes from unrealistic expectations: I'm sorry but ToTE is the second expansion to HoMM5, made 7 years ago by a different developer. The reason why it's so good is because Nival had 2 years to learn from the original release and made updates accordingly releasing two expansions (and don't tell me Dwarves are balanced). Nival also released the game when the market was sufficient to justify the expense on the game. At the time Might and Magic franchise was rebooted after Ubisoft's acquisition and Dark Messiah big budget title was scheduled to be released so it made sense to expect big sales from Heroes 5. It is no longer the case. (Also I do not think it's appropriate to ask Ubisoft to put in a lot of money into the game in the same thread where some openly discuss using downloading pirated copies.)
Limbic is a company which makes games on limited budget, using existing engines, specialising in UE3 and 4. If you played Might and Magic X: Legacy, made by Limbic on Unity engine, you will know exactly what you had to expect from Heroes 7 - in a nutshell, a game with a lot of rough edges but with solid core mechanics. Might and Magic X had the same washed-out graphics, very little amount of bells and whistles in menus, animations, sound effects etc., but it was a solid tile-based RPG, faring well against Grimlock.
Therefore, first-of-all, if you set expectations accordingly and realistically, Limbic did well. I will not reiterate my previous post but, in my opinion, the core mechanics are solid. All the rambling about Skillwheel, magic schools, xp gains/caps, resource names etc., I'm not touching because these are petty discussions to have. These are game design decisions made by a team of professional designers early in the process, and if you thought that they could be dramatically altered based on community feedback, then it's naive at the very least. Once again after M&MX I know that Limbic has good game designers who care about balance and cohesive systems and this is the most important thing in Heroes.
So far: Skillwheel works well, because most choices are now balanced - exploration is not game-breaking, nor is paragon, (economy might be slightly strong though) and I don't feel like I have to level up Grandmaster skills first. Magic is varied and different, xp gains are fast, so you always feel like you can obtain that extra rank - that's not bad at all in my book. We're talking about actual permanent game systems working well here, not a number of bugs which will be largely solved in two weeks.
Compare it to Heroes 6 - game developed by Black Hole Entertainment whose track record is Armies of Exigo and Warhammer: Mark of Chaos. These are utterly mediocre games, and the developers clearly never made a game which relies on balance. These developers got a nice engine, got licence to make MMH6, then proceeded to make dubious decisions about balance and gameplay, removing resources, creating good-bad progression systems, ignoring town screens etc. My expectations were loooooooooooow. You don't have to be a genius to understand the we were heading for a disaster. Point: Limbic is a systems-developer, while BHE was a bit-of-everything developer - therefore Limbic is a good match for Heroes game.
If you actually read through Steam reviews they all are based either on early bugs/crashes. These are legitimate concerns, and I get that Ubisoft's deadline is tight, but these are not "proper" reviews to my understanding and more of a vocal minority complaining. This is a recurring trend with all AAA releases nowadays - the game will ALWAYS be better 1-2 months after launch and people should know it by now. Limbic stated that the game will get support (at least until 2 Axeoth campaigns are out early next year for sure), which is enough to solve current issues.
Summing up all of this, I know that Heroes 7 will be a better buy in 1-2 months or on Steam sale. This would probably be my recommendation for all the people who hesitate to buy in now. But it is a solid game overall and people who are boycotting it over it not being Heroes 3, not being ToTE or gameplay elements they don't like is frankly childish (I'm not even talking about pirating stuff). I think that much more could be achieved if everyone would play the game, get in line with existing systems and help developers further balance and improve them.
PS. Just one more thing that bothers me - whoever is complaining about Unit Tiers (come on!), don't waste your time derailing the discussion - those are just grouping conventions. Creatures in one core tier are not at the same power level, they are just made so that those newer players can easily assess the strength of a monster at a glance: Champion>Elite>Core. It's really the same as in Heroes 3: Halebardiers, Archers, Griffins - could be core; Knights, Monks, Crusaders - Elite, Angels - Champion. The balance is different but that's all, does it require a dozen hate-filled posts?
PPS. I agree, Ashan is an uninspired setting. So far the story on HoMM7 is okay though, resembling HoMM4 a bit, and let's not pretend that HoMM2 or 3 had thrilling storylines, most of the interesting lore came from the Might and Magic RPG and Armageddon's Blade.
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mErEnEfErEeee
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 01, 2015 07:31 PM |
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I don't care if Limbic did well or UBI or Nival. All I care is if the game is at least as good as H3 or H5, especially if it is described as best of Heroes game in the series. Come on, what is this? We are not in the circus.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 07:38 PM |
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@sobaka770
Dear "new" member welcome to the first stage of madness. First you try logic and being nice. Then if you dare to get caught up in it, you'll probably end up posting about how you want leave here,like many people did. (I m still looking for war-overlord).
They always win and you will get ganged upon. Let them complain, it's a thing.
At least verriker is mostly funny. I m still laughing about his post tipping his magical fedora, reviving a certain thread and i cannot picture this person in any other face than erwan's.
Some problems are indeed not that dire. Some,not all.
But i m still discouraged to buy the game... It needs more patches:/
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 07:54 PM |
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Edited by TD at 21:30, 01 Oct 2015.
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sobaka770 said:
I don't see why you are then on Heroes 7 forums if you don't own the game. Maybe if you did, you'd see that it does a lot of things well. For example, the Haven campaign mission design is superior to any previous Heroes game official map in my opinion. Map design is interesting and the game does have the just-one-more-move feel which was absent from Heroes 6 for sure.
And for all the skillwheel ranting, it actually works fine. They changed some values since beta and there are some interesting choices in picking skills. Logistics only gives 1 movement point only, paragon only gives 5% extra xp? Thank God these are no longer mandatory picks. Archers got rebalanced and its probably the first Heroes game where shooting units don't feel broken.
Things that need attention are to solve a number if launch bugs, fix simturns in MP, improve the AI and the editor tools. So, yes, the game needs polish and one-two months of proper support.
However, based on actual experience with the game, it is not a disgrace to the franchise, nor a hack job. It is also definitely not a spiritual successor to Heroes 6. It plays vastly differently, it has a solid core, a foundation for future which is extremely important. Point is: Don't just bash thee game based on hearsay, or ramble Verriker-style, it is in better shape at launch than Heroes 5 or 6 were and has an immense potential to overshadow both.
If you don't keep an open mind to new systems, and don't give a game a fair chance then you can play Heroes 3 and stay on that forum. You cannot expect WoG maps created out of the gate, it took years to make those and campaign maps are great so far.
To be honest I was extremely bored and disappointed in the campaign, quit during 3rd mission. I was playing orc campaign which feels like I just play h6 campaign all over again, only missions 2 and 3 are swapped with each other, but essentially they it was the same campaign.
SPOILER
Mission 1. Me is orc liberator!
Mission 2. Me unite tribe!
Mission 3. Orc must survive, Others mean to orcs!
SPOILER END
While the story may not be exactly the same, the missions felt like they were. Only real difference I felt was that in h7 you don't necessary build your town at all because the game is ridiculously easy even on heroic(end of mission 2 I had 9 skill-points unused I think, that's how hard it is). You also reach the max level even faster than in h6 as I was maxed out usually around 1/3 or at latest 1/2 of the mission and I was just rushing ahead. Heck I didn't even notice I had a town at one point, only noticed it probably 5-7 turns later and built it something like 16 levels(for nothing).
As for the "one more turn" it's actually more like "maybe next mission will be interesting only to let you down". Also in custom maps I just get this soulless mechanical feel to game like in h6. It's not even remotely fun to play and that's just combination of the million things I find average or bad in the game with nothing really to lift it up or make it interesting.
And you think paragon with 5% exp boost is good now? I wouldn't go for that useless boost even in my nightmares. The leveling up is already so insanely fast and easy making some +15% max boost absolutely useless. Rather it's actually hurting your hero because it eats skill-points making it very non-optimal skill. For me the skill-system just falls flat, being one the biggest mistakes on design-level.
For me if h7 ever wants to rise from the curse of mediocrity it needs major changes as in: skill-system, classes, magic system, specializations, Creature abilities, proper AI(which is just horrible) and just general randomness to the game(everything is way too predictable). Also it needs more attention to details like sounds, level cap, town-builder, colors the the game in general, small filler/lore texts and such to create some immersion. Also from technical point it needs to get the bugs fixed(though I never ran into anything major and game never crashed) and it needs a lot of optimization. As the game stands now, to me it's clearly spiritual successor to h6(well more like stand alone expansion actually rather than new game) and in many ways I actually find it worse than h6 in the final form. That's not say the game doesn't have potential. It could eventually become good or even great game, but it's not there today. It just needs so much work to get there, making it hard to see this game ever rise from the sea of mediocrity.
From my point of view I can't even understand how some people have given this game full 10 in metacritic(or full 0 for that matter) given all the flaws from just technical stand point. General census seems to be though that it's just an average game. Currently the score it has on Metacritic is 66 from critics and 6,2 from users. On steam it has 55% negative reviews. If you enjoy the game, good for you. For me this is still long way from the actual HoMM-titles in quality
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etore
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 08:16 PM |
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sobaka770 said:
I don't see why you are then on Heroes 7 forums if you don't own the game. Maybe if you did, you'd see that it does a lot of things well. For example, the Haven campaign mission design is superior to any previous Heroes game official map in my opinion. Map design is interesting and the game does have the just-one-more-move feel which was absent from Heroes 6 for sure.
And for all the skillwheel ranting, it actually works fine. They changed some values since beta and there are some interesting choices in picking skills. Logistics only gives 1 movement point only, paragon only gives 5% extra xp? Thank God these are no longer mandatory picks. Archers got rebalanced and its probably the first Heroes game where shooting units don't feel broken.
Things that need attention are to solve a number if launch bugs, fix simturns in MP, improve the AI and the editor tools. So, yes, the game needs polish and one-two months of proper support.
However, based on actual experience with the game, it is not a disgrace to the franchise, nor a hack job. It is also definitely not a spiritual successor to Heroes 6. It plays vastly differently, it has a solid core, a foundation for future which is extremely important. Point is: Don't just bash thee game based on hearsay, or ramble Verriker-style, it is in better shape at launch than Heroes 5 or 6 were and has an immense potential to overshadow both.
If you don't keep an open mind to new systems, and don't give a game a fair chance then you can play Heroes 3 and stay on that forum. You cannot expect WoG maps created out of the gate, it took years to make those and campaign maps are great so far.
Thanks for writing exactly all I would but cannot because my english level forbid.
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sobaka770
Hired Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 08:17 PM |
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TD said:
To be honest I was extremely bored and disappointed in the campaign, quit during 3rd mission. I was playing orc campaign which feels like I just play h6 campaign all over again, only missions 2 and 3 are swapped with each other, but essentially they it was the same campaign.
SPOILER
Mission 1. Me is orc liberator!
Mission 2. Me unite tribe!
Mission 3. Orc must survive, Others mean to orcs!
SPOILER END
While the story may not be exactly the same, the missions felt like they were. Only real difference I felt was that in h7 you don't necessary build your town at all because the game is ridiculously easy even on heroic(end of mission 2 I had 9 skill-points unused I think, that's how hard it is). You also reach the max level even faster than in h6 as I was maxed out usually around 1/3 or at latest 1/2 of the mission and I was just rushing ahead. Heck I didn't even notice I had a town at one point, only noticed it probably 5-7 turns later and built it something like 16 levels(for nothing).
As for the "one more turn" it's actually more like "maybe next mission will be interesting only to let you down". Also in custom maps I just get this soulless mechanical feel to game like in h6. It's not even remotely fun to play and that's just combination of the million things I find average or bad in the game with nothing really to lift it up or make it interesting.
And you think paragon with 5% exp boost is good now? I wouldn't go for that useless boost even in my nightmares. The leveling up is already so insanely fast and easy making some +15% max boost absolutely useless. Rather it's actually hurting your hero because it eats skill-points making it very non-optimal skill. For me the skill-system just falls flat, being one the biggest mistakes on design-level.
For me if h7 ever wants to rise from the curse of mediocrity it needs major changes as in: skill-system, classes, magic system, specializations, Creature abilities, proper AI(which is just horrible) and just general randomness to the game(everything is way too predictable). Also it needs more attention to details like sounds, level cap, town-builder, colors the the game in general, small filler/lore texts and such to create some immersion. Also from technical point it needs to get the bugs fixed(though I never ran into anything major and game never crashed) and it needs a lot of optimization. As the game stands now, to me it's clearly spiritual successor to h6(well more like stand alone expansion actually rather than new game) and in many ways I actually find it worse than h6 in the final form. That's not say the game doesn't have potential. It could eventually become good or even great game, but it's not there today. It just needs so much work to get there, making it hard to see this game ever rise from the sea of mediocrity.
From my point of view I can't even understand how some people have given this game full 10 in metacritic(or full 0 for that matter) given all the flaws from just technical stand point. General census seems to be though that it's just an average game. Currently the score it has on Metacritic is 74 from critics and 6,3 from users. On steam it has 55% negative reviews. If you enjoy the game, good for you. For me this is still long way from the actual HoMM-titles in quality
I started with Haven as the supposedly-introduction one.
My observations: story is average, but better than Heroes 6. I don't actively hate it, as I hated the out-of-order Heroes 6 structure. The missions are very different though, objectives are varied on each map.
The AI is not extremely challenging but I didn't think it was extremely easy to win, and I think people who are not hardcore HoMM players will find the difficulty adequate.
Paragon boost is exactly what I'm talking about: 5% is not good by itself, just as 1 movement point, but 15% is nice, and you get to choose auxiliary talents as well. This opens up a choice if you want to level up a hero faster, maybe a secondary one. What is important that it's no longer a 15% per level Oh-my-God-I-must-have-it perk. Neither is logistics/exploration - hence, balanced.
As I stated before, in my opinion, saying things like "change everything - graphics, sounds etc." is not productive. If you wanna go that way, be precise, devs are reading here. Don't ramble about things that are objectively not feasible, like changing 9 magic schools or redoing the skill system. What's wrong with magic, which can be improved realistically? Are there spells that stand out as too powerful or useless? You say that you go for optimal build, but there shouldn't be one - which abilities/trees are too good then?
Personally, I find it weird that colors get washed out when you zoom out on adventure map. The game looks fine up close but far away it becomes grey as if there's a layer of fog over the whole map. Can this effect be toggled off? (I'm sure it would require a beefier rig, but having a choice would be nice)
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mErEnEfErEeee
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 01, 2015 08:28 PM |
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TD said:
My observations: story is average, but better than Heroes 6. I don't actively hate it, as I hated the out-of-order Heroes 6 structure. The missions are very different though, objectives are varied on each map.
The AI is not extremely challenging but I didn't think it was extremely easy to win, and I think people who are not hardcore HoMM players will find the difficulty adequate.
The story is said to be pretty "Heroish", nothing special, new, or exciting according to some Polish reviews. But anyways, the gameplay is much more important in this type of game.
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farfromrefuge
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 08:32 PM |
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sobaka770 said:
TD said:
To be honest I was extremely bored and disappointed in the campaign, quit during 3rd mission. I was playing orc campaign which feels like I just play h6 campaign all over again, only missions 2 and 3 are swapped with each other, but essentially they it was the same campaign.
SPOILER
Mission 1. Me is orc liberator!
Mission 2. Me unite tribe!
Mission 3. Orc must survive, Others mean to orcs!
SPOILER END
While the story may not be exactly the same, the missions felt like they were. Only real difference I felt was that in h7 you don't necessary build your town at all because the game is ridiculously easy even on heroic(end of mission 2 I had 9 skill-points unused I think, that's how hard it is). You also reach the max level even faster than in h6 as I was maxed out usually around 1/3 or at latest 1/2 of the mission and I was just rushing ahead. Heck I didn't even notice I had a town at one point, only noticed it probably 5-7 turns later and built it something like 16 levels(for nothing).
As for the "one more turn" it's actually more like "maybe next mission will be interesting only to let you down". Also in custom maps I just get this soulless mechanical feel to game like in h6. It's not even remotely fun to play and that's just combination of the million things I find average or bad in the game with nothing really to lift it up or make it interesting.
And you think paragon with 5% exp boost is good now? I wouldn't go for that useless boost even in my nightmares. The leveling up is already so insanely fast and easy making some +15% max boost absolutely useless. Rather it's actually hurting your hero because it eats skill-points making it very non-optimal skill. For me the skill-system just falls flat, being one the biggest mistakes on design-level.
For me if h7 ever wants to rise from the curse of mediocrity it needs major changes as in: skill-system, classes, magic system, specializations, Creature abilities, proper AI(which is just horrible) and just general randomness to the game(everything is way too predictable). Also it needs more attention to details like sounds, level cap, town-builder, colors the the game in general, small filler/lore texts and such to create some immersion. Also from technical point it needs to get the bugs fixed(though I never ran into anything major and game never crashed) and it needs a lot of optimization. As the game stands now, to me it's clearly spiritual successor to h6(well more like stand alone expansion actually rather than new game) and in many ways I actually find it worse than h6 in the final form. That's not say the game doesn't have potential. It could eventually become good or even great game, but it's not there today. It just needs so much work to get there, making it hard to see this game ever rise from the sea of mediocrity.
From my point of view I can't even understand how some people have given this game full 10 in metacritic(or full 0 for that matter) given all the flaws from just technical stand point. General census seems to be though that it's just an average game. Currently the score it has on Metacritic is 74 from critics and 6,3 from users. On steam it has 55% negative reviews. If you enjoy the game, good for you. For me this is still long way from the actual HoMM-titles in quality
I started with Haven as the supposedly-introduction one.
My observations: story is average, but better than Heroes 6. I don't actively hate it, as I hated the out-of-order Heroes 6 structure. The missions are very different though, objectives are varied on each map.
The AI is not extremely challenging but I didn't think it was extremely easy to win, and I think people who are not hardcore HoMM players will find the difficulty adequate.
Paragon boost is exactly what I'm talking about: 5% is not good by itself, just as 1 movement point, but 15% is nice, and you get to choose auxiliary talents as well. This opens up a choice if you want to level up a hero faster, maybe a secondary one. What is important that it's no longer a 15% per level Oh-my-God-I-must-have-it perk. Neither is logistics/exploration - hence, balanced.
As I stated before, in my opinion, saying things like "change everything - graphics, sounds etc." is not productive. If you wanna go that way, be precise, devs are reading here. Don't ramble about things that are objectively not feasible, like changing 9 magic schools or redoing the skill system. What's wrong with magic, which can be improved realistically? Are there spells that stand out as too powerful or useless? You say that you go for optimal build, but there shouldn't be one - which abilities/trees are too good then?
Personally, I find it weird that colors get washed out when you zoom out on adventure map. The game looks fine up close but far away it becomes grey as if there's a layer of fog over the whole map. Can this effect be toggled off? (I'm sure it would require a beefier rig, but having a choice would be nice)
Did you just say that Logistics was must have in previous games? LOL. So snowing LOL.
Logistics and Pathfinder were really in place everywhere from HoMM III to HoMM V. Aye, both skills seem extemely useful, except you could exchange them for something that would actually give you an edge over your enemy. Even Misticism is more useful in battle than Logistics.
So it was a really, really hard choice - do I want to be able to run away from my enemy, or do I want to master Fire Magic and just Berserk him all over? And could I actually do it?
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 08:34 PM |
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Edited by TD at 20:47, 01 Oct 2015.
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@Sobaka I have given my feedback to devs since the start of SC which is their actual own dev blog. I have written so many times suggestions how to fix or just salvage good deal of current system. That's me and a lot of others to be precise(in dev blog you can still find a lot of the suggestion made in top votes that got ignored). I only quit the dev blog(among good deal of people) once they said they won't make any changes. And you can find even here on HC topics that were/are made to give suggestion on how to improve and fix things quite often focusing on single area per topic to ease devs see what they were doing wrong from our perspective. And it's not like we in general get listened to, even the VIPs get ignored who are supposed to have more say in matters according JJ who is VIP. If you followed the development you would know that fans didn't get say in the game.
We voted 2 line-ups from pre-made lines which all had something we didn't want(so it was pick your poison). Later we got random skills as after thought though devs clearly knew even from their own dev blog that majority wanted random-system as base, not the h6 skill-system as base. And lasty there was utter rage when devs used some of the worst models in necro from h6 as direct copy/paste which essentially forced them to make good models(otherwise it would have been marketing nightmare). So far I haven't really felt any real interaction taking place with devs where we actually had any effect. They have said they will look into the hero specializations, but in my mind that would be the first time devs really listened at us if they make them good(and that should have been done in the first place).
PS
@mErEnEfErEeee you are quoting sobaka, not me on last page.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
