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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted October 07, 2015 10:45 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
What the hell are you talking about? There is no "If" here! proj just proved that haven heroes can cast dark magic spells.
Sure it's not a bug? Because from Ubisoft I don't get the impression that was intended, unless something has changed somewhere.
"A Knight can always have offense, he can never have dark magic, that’s what defines a knight in Ashan."
https://mmh7.ubi.com/us/blog/post/view/skillwheel-the-design-philosophy
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 07, 2015 10:47 PM |
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Brukernavn said:
ChrisD1 said:
What the hell are you talking about? There is no "If" here! proj just proved that haven heroes can cast dark magic spells.
Sure it's not a bug? Because from Ubisoft I don't get the impression that was intended, unless something has changed somewhere.
"A Knight can always have offense, he can never have dark magic, that’s what defines a knight in Ashan."
https://mmh7.ubi.com/us/blog/post/view/skillwheel-the-design-philosophy
Either an oversight or just the fact that knights can't learn dark magic skills.
Either way, what can one define Ornella from H5?
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 07, 2015 10:47 PM |
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Well, they also said:
Quote:
We don’t want freeform heroes and spellcasting barbarians.
And look what we got, spellcasting barbarians. Go figures 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 10:47 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Not only that, but there are no ways to counter it. Besides the creature abilities or hero abilities. One'd hope that at least by having a creature defend to stop such flanking.
you just said that there are ways to counter it. vigilance. when you defend you already take less damage even if it is from flanking. i really don't understand what is annoying you about flanking(as an idea, not implementation).
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 10:52 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Brukernavn said:
Sure it's not a bug? Because from Ubisoft I don't get the impression that was intended, unless something has changed somewhere.
"A Knight can always have offense, he can never have dark magic, that’s what defines a knight in Ashan."
https://mmh7.ubi.com/us/blog/post/view/skillwheel-the-design-philosophy
Either an oversight or just the fact that knights can't learn dark magic skills.
Either way, what can one define Ornella from H5?
a knight can never have dark magic(in his wheel). no one said he can't cast those dark spells at reduced capacity. also metamagic used to mean synergies and now it changed. ugh it's too late for the usual mental games here. bb
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 07, 2015 11:06 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
EnergyZ said:
Not only that, but there are no ways to counter it. Besides the creature abilities or hero abilities. One'd hope that at least by having a creature defend to stop such flanking.
you just said that there are ways to counter it. vigilance. when you defend you already take less damage even if it is from flanking. i really don't understand what is annoying you about flanking(as an idea, not implementation).
Yes, but no general ways. I mean to counter one always has to press the defend button. And such ways to win combat are highly unadvisable.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 11:07 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Brukernavn said:
ChrisD1 said:
What the hell are you talking about? There is no "If" here! proj just proved that haven heroes can cast dark magic spells.
Sure it's not a bug? Because from Ubisoft I don't get the impression that was intended, unless something has changed somewhere.
"A Knight can always have offense, he can never have dark magic, that’s what defines a knight in Ashan."
https://mmh7.ubi.com/us/blog/post/view/skillwheel-the-design-philosophy
Either an oversight or just the fact that knights can't learn dark magic skills.
Either way, what can one define Ornella from H5?
That was probably a poorly worded way to say "knights arent trained into dark magic and most of them dont use them and the hero skillwheel is a representation of the majority" (which kinda goes along with Ornella being the only or one of the few CANON dark knights out of all the heroes and the unnamed knights that should supposedly exist/have existed)
But if you reaaaally want a deep explanation you could just say that demon invasions and getting ruled by a succubus disguised as a queen kinda cause that stuff.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 07, 2015 11:09 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
a knight can never have dark magic(in his wheel). no one said he can't cast those dark spells at reduced capacity. also metamagic used to mean synergies and now it changed. ugh it's too late for the usual mental games here. bb
I am sure that it is now only a matter of time when we we will see Haven Heroes with access to Dark Magic skill. Restricting availability of certain skills can only confine the player. Giving access to more skills is the most efficient way to spice up and increase variety of gameplay.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted October 07, 2015 11:24 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
I am sure that it is now only a matter of time when we we will see Haven Heroes with access to Dark Magic skill. Restricting availability of certain skills can only confine the player. Giving access to more skills is the most efficient way to spice up and increase variety of gameplay.
That is true, but I somehow doubt it will happen. Because Ashan.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 07, 2015 11:46 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 23:21, 08 Oct 2015.
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Brukernavn said:
That is true, but I somehow doubt it will happen. Because Ashan.
In Ashan's case, lore isn't a problem. It can be changed in a matter of minutes. What is a true problem, though, is mindset of people behind it. For them lore is a monolith, a grandiose and sacred statue that needs to remain untouched. Thankfully, we can see first flashes of thinking about changing the monolith into something more practical and I can only wish for going more and more into that direction. 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 08, 2015 12:40 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
you just said that there are ways to counter it. vigilance. when you defend you already take less damage even if it is from flanking. i really don't understand what is annoying you about flanking(as an idea, not implementation).
I don't think you will find many people here who are against flanking per sé, but quite a lot more who disagree with its implementation. Several consequences that flow from this concept in quite a logical manner have been missed and/or not implemented: changing the facing direction of units, attacks of opportunity and making the defensive stance immune to flanking (at least for the first attack against the unit).
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 06:07 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Brukernavn said:
That is true, but I somehow doubt it will happen. Because Ashan.
In Ashan's case, lore isn't a problem. It can be changed in a matter of minutes. What is a true problem, though, is mindset of people behind it. For them lore is a monolith, a grandiose and sacred statue that needs to remain untouched.
not really
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 06:19 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
I am sure that it is now only a matter of time when we we will see Haven Heroes with access to Dark Magic skill. Restricting availability of certain skills can only confine the player. Giving access to more skills is the most efficient way to spice up and increase variety of gameplay.
That is one opinion. The other opinion is that if everyone can learn anything,we end up with almost zero diversity between heroes.what's even the point in choosing?
I said it before, i ll say it again. Restriction sounds bad in theory. But when actually playing and using a knight, there will always be better options than dark magic. And you ll go for those options. You just want to know that an option ,that you will almost never use, is there. I get it. It would annoy me too. In theory.
When playing though it's way different. Since that knight can learn dark spells of all tiers,i don't feel "confined" because i cannot cast mass dark spells with increased spellpower. It's such a tiny detail. It makes enough of a difference for the sake of diversity, but it still remains a small one, so you can spice things up with your knight. Come on, the warfare ability needs more attention and ideas than this.
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Petiknight
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 08:17 AM |
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Hi Dan,
thx for your feedbacks on this forum. I would like to report you a glitch. On academy campaign map mission 2, I had a game breaking issue. The enemy AI /necro/ escaped to sancturay, meanwhile I decided to capture her main city. Well, i just did everything, but the enemy hero was so scared, that she didn't want to leave this building.Off course the main objective was to defeat this Hero, and capture her city, therefor it was impossible to finish the mission. Well to be honest my Hero was not that scary, but the AI was really freaked out. This bug forced me to activate cheat, and win the map, becaue I didnt have earlier autosave and I didn't want to restart the map to play it again.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 08:25 AM |
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Some people clearly have no idea what they are talking about and should PLAY the game first and talk later.
Quote:
What the hell are you talking about? There is no "If" here! proj just proved that haven heroes can cast dark magic spells. also i was playing minute ago and my sylvan heroes could learn and cast dark and fire spells.
PROJ has no idea what he's talking about and you neither - I didn't talk about SYLVAN heroes bit about HAVEN heroes.
So let me repeat the FACTS again:
1) Haven Heroes will not record ANY Dark Magic spells in their spell book, no matter what. They can have as many points of Arcane Knowledge as they want - won't happen. Haven Heroes's spell books are 100% resistant against Dark Magic spell (and I suppose the same thing is true for Dungeon and Light (and may Nekropolis as well). Haven Heroes CANNOT cast Dark Mgic spell because they CANNOT learn any.
That Haven GUILDS cannot have Dark Magic spells, is just a lore quirk - there is nothing wrong with it, and that Haven Heroes have no Dark Magic in their Skill wheel is no problem either. But that heroes are warded against recording spells? What kind of nonsense is that?
2) Haven (and this is only an example) Magic Guilds teach all spells (except Dark); you can pick Water or Earth Magic even as favored Magic. However no darn Haven hero - NONE - has any Water or Earth Magic skills. Which is ridiculous - they already have a forbidden school - Dark -, so what's wrong with the damn Holy Empire that their Heroes CANNOT make any sensible use with Earth or Water? Do they have a serious learning disorder? An allergy against Earth and Water?
There are 3 so-called "magic" classes - and none of those losers is able to delve into Water or Earth Magic? Even though the Guilds teach it?
That is supposed to make sense? There isn't even a TECHNICAL reason for it - with 3 magic classses you'd think it would be no problem to find one that CAN, for frag's sake. I haven't got so many options here when I want to play a hero that can learn Light and Water - I will probably have to wait until a Sanctuary hero offers their services for that, and that might be a long wait, and with the Tavern only offering 4 Heroes your options just suck here. UNNECESSARILY, I might add to make the point clear.
Makes no sense.
And since Flanking was mentioned. Makes no sense either. It's like giving all units the intrinsic abilityto "backstab" - at least, that's how this is implemented. It's not like Flanking COULDN'T be a nice addition to battles, it's just that it's done in the cheapest way possible, and that amounts to something that again makes no sense, because there are serious differences in usability and some units are inherently strengthened by it while some are weakened - there is also no counter, no way to influence facing, o reaction on being flanked.
In short - it makes the whole battling look silly. A 50% damage increase is one hell of a lot of damage (which may increase even more), and fast (small) and Dungeon units just do more damage this way.
Again - makes no sense. It's slapping a mechanic onto battle without rhyme or reason, unthinkingly. H6 syndrome - not necessarily bad ideas, but implemented shoddily and without love for detail.
The main problem here is that if a mistake is repeated, reaction will always be harsher. You CAN err, but you should avoid repeating mistakes.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 08, 2015 08:35 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 08:38, 08 Oct 2015.
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ChrisD1 said:
That is one opinion. The other opinion is that if everyone can learn anything,we end up with almost zero diversity between heroes.what's even the point in choosing?
Meh, that's what skill chance percentages are for. Who didn't love dark runemages or light dungeon? It was awesome because it was rare. But the fact that the possibility existed only made the gameplay better.
And even back in H5, magic schools REALLY affected faction gameplay and tactics. Light academy was much different from light sylvan just like destructive necro was totally different from destructive sylvan.
With H7 in mind, would you dislike a demonlord class with a low chance to learn ice magic? I sure wouldn't and I'm sure same goes for many others. As far as the lore is concerned, it is very much possible if a bit rare due to practical reasons.
WIth H7 skill system set in stone, I would propose the following tweak: Give magic skills a blank slate and let people decide on game creation which magic skills will be available to them. Suppose X academy hero has 4 magic schools, ie fire, water, prime, air due to his class. Make those blank magic skills that are manually picked on game start. Let's say you want light, water, air, earth out of the 7 elements. Those skills will then appear on level ups according to their chance percentages. Everyone wins.
Of course, there might be some banned magic skills per class but it's still much better than what we got.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 08, 2015 08:42 AM |
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Edited by malax83 at 08:43, 08 Oct 2015.
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Sangoku has a different approach of flanking !!!
LINK
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 08:53 AM |
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Elvin, all that has been suggested as soon as the system became obvious, last Xmas. It's a lost cause. I mean, if THEY didn't find it unsatisfactory when thye played their own game ... what more can you say?
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 08:55 AM |
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@elvin.
I get what you are saying but we are talking about a possibility. A very small chance. And just knowing that,yes it makes it thrilling,but in action,the chance is so small that it can be dismissed. I m not saying it's bad or hideous(even though i like my rules and restrictions), but the other way around is not as bad as some people make it out to be.
I don't agree with choosing the schools on the wheel,but the wheel itself could be more diverse in some factions. Lets hope we come up with some easy solutions.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 08, 2015 08:59 AM |
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Keep lobbying for it till the fanrage accumulates and people come out in the streets with pitchforks?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
