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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 11:09 AM |
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What's the problem with H7 graphics and UI? I just looked around again in google pictures and it seems perfect. UI is same as H5 which was versy good. Models are better than H5 and less cartoonish. Adventure map is nice and detailed and also a step forward compared to any other 3D heroes game. And there is really nothing mood or atmosphere breaking, like it was somewhat in H6 (Streamlined UI and featurless maps).
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 21, 2016 11:22 AM |
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 11:33 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 11:42, 21 Mar 2016.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 12:09 PM |
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Stevie said:
We've already been through this, all you would ever want to know is in this post by Elvin - Link.
Also this post by LizardWarrior is highly enlightening on the nature of the UI post Heroes 6 - Link.
These are mostly about usability and practicality of GUI and UI objects. However aesthetically and professionally the Graphics of H7, excluding town screens, is one of best in the series. I don’t really get it how can someone find these graphics ugly unless it is just a completely subjective opinion. For example decorations are just decorations, they don’t need to have a function, they add up to the aesthetic and fantasy realism picture, and practical arrangements usually do not create immersive atmosphere in this kind of settings.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 21, 2016 12:17 PM |
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Bitula said:
I don’t really get it how can someone find these graphics ugly unless it is just a completely subjective opinion.
Of course whether you find H2 to be gorgeous or H7 to be disgusting is subjective, or simply a matter of having good taste*. 
However, scale, readability, usability and practicality are more down to earth and the links from Stevie perfectly shows how flawed recent games are on this matter.
I will repeat myself AGAIN, the SPIRIT reflected by visuals has been drastically changed with Ashan (and even further with h6/h7, the "true" Ashan), and whether someone likes it or not is not relevant, what is is the universe reboot failed to appeal to majority of fans of the original games, which translates into a failure.
*j/k
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 12:30 PM |
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Galaad said:
Bitula said:
I don’t really get it how can someone find these graphics ugly unless it is just a completely subjective opinion.
Of course whether you find H2 to be gorgeous or H7 to be disgusting is subjective, or simply a matter of having good taste*.
However, scale, readability, usability and practicality are more down to earth and the links from Stevie perfectly shows how flawed recent games are on this matter.
I will repeat myself AGAIN, the SPIRIT reflected by visuals has been drastically changed with Ashan (and even further with h6/h7, the "true" Ashan), and whether someone likes it or not is not relevant, what is is the universe reboot failed to appeal to majority of fans of the original games, which translates into a failure.
*j/k
AFAIR the majority of fan base are in big part H5 fans, therefore by original fan base you mean H1-H3 (maybe H4) fans who think that H5 was a step back. So the majority of "Heroes fans" is not the same as majority of "Original Heroes fans", therefore at least in the graphics department H7 didn’t really fail to deliver (excluding probably usability issues) for the first majority.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 21, 2016 12:38 PM |
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Let's not try and define "who are in which part of fan base" this is useless, I wouldn't even know where I stand if you go like this, H5 is one of my favorite games yet I hate its graphics and lore, so, where am I?
If the universe reboot had been a success it would be well known. I am firmly convinced H5's success is due to its mechanics highly inspired from H3 and nothing else.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 21, 2016 12:46 PM |
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Bitula said:
AFAIR the majority of fan base are in big part H5 fans, therefore by original fan base you mean H1-H3 (maybe H4) fans who think that H5 was a step back. So the majority of "Heroes fans" is not the same as majority of "Original Heroes fans", therefore at least in the graphics department H7 didn't really fail to deliver (excluding probably usability issues) for the first majority.
tbh why don't we avoid to get into this fan wars stuff again I'd suggest, it's a race to the bottom,
if we zone in on interface there is some very good and detailed criticism you asked for in those links where we had the rodeo before, you are welcome to just ignore and shrug it off to disagree,
there is no real scientific objectivity to criticism of an interface if you want to state that, it's more of a matter of vibe, practices and consensus, many people have reported that H7 interface is ugly, incoherent and it sucks based on their reactions, but it is OK if you personally have an affinity for the H7 interface and nobody takes it away from you lol
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 12:47 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 12:50, 21 Mar 2016.
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Bitula said:
However aesthetically and professionally the Graphics of H7, excluding town screens, is one of best in the series. I don’t really get it how can someone find these graphics ugly unless it is just a completely subjective opinion.
By all means no. Even professional reviewers like TotalBiscuit affirmed that Heroes 7 graphics are disconnected, unfinished, sloppy, even going as far as to use words like disgusting and hideous. To quote him, "It's a step backwards in terms of presentation, it's a step backwards in terms of UI, it's a step backwards in terms of functionality. It doesn't look good, it looks old". Would recommend watching his review - Link.
Oh, and I almost forgot, since you mentioned subjectivity, here's another enlightening quote: "Would I be playing this game if I was not already into this series in a big way and hadn't bought every other game in the franchise? No, I wouldn't. I'd be picking this game to pieces and now I'd be comparing it to Age of Wonders and saying how much better Age of Wonders does a lot of stuff". So guess what, subjectivity from old time fans like him works in favor of giving a better review than the game actually deserves.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 12:51 PM |
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Galaad said:
Let's not try and define "who are in which part of fan base" this is useless, I wouldn't even know where I stand if you go like this, H5 is one of my favorite games yet I hate its graphics and lore, so, where am I?
If the universe reboot had been a success it would be well known. I am firmly convinced H5's success is due to its mechanics highly inspired from H3 and nothing else.
Well I wouldn't be able to play a game which’s graphics I hate. And to find such game one of my favorites is beyond my empirical imaginations. But whatever…
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 01:03 PM |
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Stevie said:
Bitula said:
However aesthetically and professionally the Graphics of H7, excluding town screens, is one of best in the series. I don’t really get it how can someone find these graphics ugly unless it is just a completely subjective opinion.
By all means no. Even professional reviewers like TotalBiscuit affirmed that Heroes 7 graphics are disconnected, unfinished, sloppy, even going as far as to use words like disgusting and hideous. To quote him, "It's a step backwards in terms of presentation, it's a step backwards in terms of UI, it's a step backwards in terms of functionality. It doesn't look good, it looks old". Would recommend watching his review - Link.
Oh, and I almost forgot, since you mentioned subjectivity, here's another enlightening quote: "Would I be playing this game if I was not already into this series in a big way and hadn't bought every other game in the franchise? No, I wouldn't. I'd be picking this game to pieces and now I'd be comparing it to Age of Wonders and saying how much better Age of Wonders does a lot of stuff". So guess what, subjectivity from old time fans like him works in favor of giving a better review than the game actually deserves.
Yes it looks old in terms of UI design. But that’s fine because I liked the look-and-feel of the bulky UI panels in H5. It’s really just the usual streamlined versus thematically designed arguments. But objectively the graphics does look proficient in the sense that it was done by a team of qualified professionals (according to screenshots I’ve seen). And the overall visual atmosphere boils down to how you liked H5 graphics. If you didn’t you probably won’t like this either.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 21, 2016 01:15 PM |
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Hate is such a strong word. There are various shades of grey, you know?  . On a scale of 0 to 10, they don't score all that high, really. The inferface hasn't been designed to present all the relevant data in a clear overview and actually competes with the map itself for screen space.
A good interface should first and foremost show the user all the relevant data in the blink of an eye on any subject being shown. The number of mouse clicks to access all the data at large should be kept at a minimum. Aesthetics and graphics come secondary, but should largely be in line with the game as a whole, which many people feel isn't the case.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 21, 2016 01:16 PM |
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Bitula said:
But objectively the graphics does look proficient in the sense that it was done by a team of qualified professionals (according to screenshots I’ve seen).
Objectively H7 graphics looks like they were done in 2010. Wait, most assets came straight out from H6. 
Quote:
And the overall visual atmosphere boils down to how you liked H5 graphics.
I disagree, H5 still looked somewhat cartoony while the artistic direction of h6/h7 aims for more realism. And honestly I find that removing the overly excessive Ashanic ornaments and decorations makes the units models almost decent like I tried to show HERE (for Haven Magic Hero), but the adventure map and UI is another matter and we are starting to run in circles for a dead end again.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 01:25 PM |
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Look, usually I don't care much about UI, provided it's practical, but in this case ...
It's dark, bulky, awkward and obtrusive, it's needlessly part of every window, it blocks the most detailed part of the screen and it's raising my hairs.
The only reason I can think for this kind of look (with regard to the nice stained glass stuff) is to evoke a Holy Empire Middle Ages Solid Oak kind of feeling - but in fact this is a game of more than one faction, and if I play the Sylvans I don't care for an UI the Elves, both High and Dark, would die from just looking at, the Wizards would despise it, for the Orcs it wouldn't have enough of Father Sky and Necropolis would have all icons in skull spider form.
In short - it sucks. Balls. Both practically and artistically, the only possible exception for the latter being when you are a sucker for the Holy Empire.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 02:04 PM |
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Maurice said:
Aesthetics and graphics come secondary, but should largely be in line with the game as a whole, which many people feel isn't the case.
Well, in case of a game, for me aesthetics and graphics are more important, than how much clicks required to activate a function. I play games at my leisure time, and I am not in a hurry. I want to enjoy it and not beat it as quickly as possible. For my Bank account web interface, however, the opposite is true.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 02:12 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Look, usually I don't care much about UI, provided it's practical, but in this case ...
It's dark, bulky, awkward and obtrusive, it's needlessly part of every window, it blocks the most detailed part of the screen and it's raising my hairs.
The only reason I can think for this kind of look (with regard to the nice stained glass stuff) is to evoke a Holy Empire Middle Ages Solid Oak kind of feeling - but in fact this is a game of more than one faction, and if I play the Sylvans I don't care for an UI the Elves, both High and Dark, would die from just looking at, the Wizards would despise it, for the Orcs it wouldn't have enough of Father Sky and Necropolis would have all icons in skull spider form.
In short - it sucks. Balls. Both practically and artistically, the only possible exception for the latter being when you are a sucker for the Holy Empire.
Well ok. But H5 UI wasn’t faction theme based either. Yeah it would be cool to have faction theme based dialogs and control panels. Anyone recommended this to Ubilimbic? Can’t be that hard to implement!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 21, 2016 02:23 PM |
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Bitula said:
Yeah it would be cool to have faction theme based dialogs and control panels. Anyone recommended this to Ubilimbic? Can’t be that hard to implement!
That sounds fairly doable via modding, but for that players need to have interest in the game.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 21, 2016 02:30 PM |
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Forget about fixing the core of the game: Faction-themed should be the priority of Limbic!
Bitula said:
Maurice said:
Aesthetics and graphics come secondary, but should largely be in line with the game as a whole, which many people feel isn't the case.
Well, in case of a game, for me aesthetics and graphics are more important, than how much clicks required to activate a function. I play games at my leisure time, and I am not in a hurry. I want to enjoy it and not beat it as quickly as possible. For my Bank account web interface, however, the opposite is true.
This is not about playing in a hurry, but rather not wasting clicks on actions that you are going to repeat thousand or million of times.
If you're playing at your leisure, you'll play it slowly and enjoying the music anyway. You won't lose anything if needlessly clicks are saved.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 02:45 PM |
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Bitula said:
Well ok. But H5 UI wasn’t faction theme based either. Yeah it would be cool to have faction theme based dialogs and control panels. Anyone recommended this to Ubilimbic? Can’t be that hard to implement!
Well, it's just my explanation for that dark wooden look of everything, like cabinets and oak ... in combination with the (Empire) stained glass screens (which are fine) I got the idea that - Iwan being the main character and things are once again all about Holy Empire - this is supposed to evoke a feeling of simple & solid oaken sturdyness among stained glass windows of breath taking beauty - or maybe it's supposed to evoke primitive church pew aesthetics as a counterpoint to the stained glass stuff...
But whatever it is - I HATE IT. Bacause the UI should be unobtrusive. Elven grace, not human clumsiness.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2016 02:58 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Bitula said:
Well ok. But H5 UI wasn’t faction theme based either. Yeah it would be cool to have faction theme based dialogs and control panels. Anyone recommended this to Ubilimbic? Can’t be that hard to implement!
Well, it's just my explanation for that dark wooden look of everything, like cabinets and oak ... in combination with the (Empire) stained glass screens (which are fine) I got the idea that - Iwan being the main character and things are once again all about Holy Empire - this is supposed to evoke a feeling of simple & solid oaken sturdyness among stained glass windows of breath taking beauty - or maybe it's supposed to evoke primitive church pew aesthetics as a counterpoint to the stained glass stuff...
But whatever it is - I HATE IT. Bacause the UI should be unobtrusive. Elven grace, not human clumsiness.
Well maybe I am the only one who likes obtrusive UI and hate streamlining. I hate playing a fantasy game with modern “WEB-5 business interface”, which looks like a minimalistic chat client. I hated NWN2 UI and AFAIR H6 UI for this reason. Yes simplistic, unobtrusive and completely immersion breaking. It’s like controlling my Elf faction through a control panel inside the space shuttle.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
