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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 12, 2016 01:32 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
LizardWarrior said:
... Also H3 HD was made last year and it sold 300k copies, more than 4 times h7 sold, so again your argument has no basis whatsoever.
So you are saying that H3HD is good game?
Tell me how many copies of HVI is sold since you cleverly avoided to mention it? Does number of copies sold make it a good game?
Fallout shelter for android earned much more than Fallout 4. Does it make better game?
I don't think it is fair to compare those two last games. One is for mobile phones, the other is for PC. Not to mention even their costs.
Being said, the number of copies sold does not always have to represent the quality of the game.
But, did you compare the ratings of the games? That sounds much more trustworthy.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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OldLich
Hired Hero
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posted June 12, 2016 01:34 PM |
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Edited by OldLich at 13:38, 12 Jun 2016.
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..and, that "cozy" environment that they create with all the bushes and trees and all that stuff, you don't get a cozy environment by creating a cozy environment. It needs to be stripped down!
Place a ferrari in front of you, now place a beautiful woman in front of the ferrari, what happens to your ability to enjoy one object at the time!  (Designers lack understanding of relativity)
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 12, 2016 01:48 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
So you are saying that H3HD is good game?
Tell me how many copies of HVI is sold since you cleverly avoided to mention it? Does number of copies sold make it a good game?
Fallout shelter for android earned much more than Fallout 4. Does it make better game?
No, H3HD it's not a good game, but you said that if h3 was released today no one would be interested, I proved you wrong. The fact that H6 sold 550k was due to the fact that it came after h5 which was successful, had better graphics than h7 and better marketing. Also Heroes III still trumps h6 with around 700k.
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sobaka770
Hired Hero
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posted June 12, 2016 02:19 PM |
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Battlefiled clarity and in general, the art design took a nosedive in H6. It's not even that in H3 units had a border and were easily distinguishable, but there was a 3D precedent of very clear graphics in H5! (the art design of which I will defend forever - cartoony, colorful design works wonders in 3D).
The grey/realsitic landscapes in H7 along with overdetailed monster designs with poor animations and understanding of priorities (yes, clarity for a chess-like game is primordial, not the wonders of 3D camera rotation) is what makes it underwhelming.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted June 12, 2016 03:05 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
No, H3HD it's not a good game, but you said that if h3 was released today no one would be interested, I proved you wrong.
No. You only proved that H3HD sold mildly well. There are specific reasons for that number of copies and graphic is not one of those. Please focus.
Once again. If HIII RoE was released today it would go unnoticed. HIII is nowhere near modern gaming standards. Its become just burden for franchise.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 12, 2016 03:16 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
No. You only proved that H3HD sold mildly well. There are specific reasons for that number of copies and graphic is not one of those. Please focus.
Once again. If HIII RoE was released today it would go unnoticed. HIII is nowhere near modern gaming standards. Its become just burden for franchise.
You say I don't bring any sustainable proof, but all you do is throw random claims which got you are clearly unable to back them up.
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2016 03:26 PM |
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Edited by Datapack at 15:26, 12 Jun 2016.
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dark-whisperer said:
If HIII RoE was released today it would go unnoticed.
lol I mean seriously what is this argument, this applies to every single old video game ever.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 12, 2016 04:31 PM |
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Datapack said:
dark-whisperer said:
If HIII RoE was released today it would go unnoticed.
lol I mean seriously what is this argument, this applies to every single old video game ever.
It means that all these arguments how great H3 is, are the things of the past... Actually, it was a great game 15 years ago. But it would not be a great game today. Some of you, guys, got stuck in your nostalgic memories. You keep complaining about new Heroes games and you are right in certain regards, like that H7's release should have been postponed. But you also compare H7 with 15 years old game. I bet, as Dark Whisperer says, that if these two games were released today, H7 would be the one with higher sales. So I think it is clear that it should NOT be compared. You can like or dislike every single game in the series but you should not despise them in the way some of you do.
People always tend to compare, which is a huge nonsense in this case imao...
You should look at every game in the series as on the single one, not in a huge comparison with all the previous ones. Otherwise your view is distorted.
But I am worried about some of you are not to understand me...
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 12, 2016 04:36 PM |
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Re-read my posts from the previous page then.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 12, 2016 04:41 PM |
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Antalyan said:
People always tend to compare, which is a huge nonsense in this case imao...
You should look at every game in the series as on the single one, not in a huge comparison with all the previous ones. Otherwise your view is distorted.
So, you are saying that we ignore every game that came before H7, along with everything good and bad that those games brought? Pardon me, but that sounded stupid. Without comparing there is not learning and improving...
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 12, 2016 04:44 PM |
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Hmm, master of Orion 2 is way greater than the Orion released this year, all comments on Gog say that. Might & Magic 6-8 seem still better than MMX, released last year -for my part, bought MMX then gave up after half hour with their Robocop moves, comments on Steam say that. A lot of people in fanatic forums still consider Civ 2-4 better than 5. Myself I consider H5-7 a joke (sorry to H5 lovers, we are in democracy) and if they sell, it is because H2-3 existed and people didn't lose hope.
There are a lot of old games which show how a game must be done. The argument nostalgia, old vs new makes not much sense, there are movies done 50 years ago which are better than many of the today super productions, there are better paintings done in XVI century than they could do today and so on. The main point with an artwork, be it anything, game, music, text, is that it requires talent and skill. The technical tools are only the language used to materialize the content, the essence, what needs to be said and communicated. It does not matter if sprites are ugly (to some people eyes) if the content is inspired, exactly as it does not matter if models are super cool if the content is beyond mediocre.
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Era II mods and utilities
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 12, 2016 04:47 PM |
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As I said before, I will say it now. Heroes III is the best because all the other alternatives lack something. Some are still worth playing, but others are just a shadow of what it should've been. Just because 20 years have passed certainly doesn't excuse the devs for making a game filled with bugs, or skills and abilities, which can be very underpowered or overpowered.
You also have the proof of shooters - even in melee, they could attack. Devs have stripped them of that, without even thinking what possible consequences it could make. Or the fact that a lot of people are hating the current specializations, which should've been a first priority to change (and still have not). Or even that squares are still used instead of hexes (so one can properly block a unit's movement, for example).
And, yet, somehow, things worked out 20 years before. They also did 10 years before (mostly), yet somehow the quality got lowered down, rather than raised up. This should be some proof that things worked out much better in the past than they do now.
And why else would people think that the fanbase outraged, whined, complained, commented and analyzed the game properly? Because we want something better, not worse.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 12, 2016 04:55 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
Antalyan said:
People always tend to compare, which is a huge nonsense in this case imao...
You should look at every game in the series as on the single one, not in a huge comparison with all the previous ones. Otherwise your view is distorted.
So, you are saying that we ignore every game that came before H7, along with everything good and bad that those games brought? Pardon me, but that sounded stupid. Without comparing there is not learning and improving...
You really think it is possible to learn from each of the previous games and improve all of them in all aspects, especially if some of the previous ones were already great? It is such a huge nonsense. I see some improvements in many regards in H7, as well as some downgrades. But I really doubt some Heroes game could do the things you would like to... It must be incredibly difficult to the next game for so famous game series.
I know nothing about you but when I play some game, I do not care about its predecessors, about its past problems or about the fact I dislike the people who had being doing the game. I simply play and then I decide how much I enjoy the features of the game I play (and not the other ones).
Elvin said:
Figures and statistics can mean many things. I am more interested how good a game looks for its age and by all accounts H7 looks worse today than H3 did back then. Graphics and animations aside, the perspective and visibility have taken a few steps back. Not that graphics and animations are a strong H7 point but I find them less important than gameplay, visibility and other practical aspects. Functionality is more important than looks.
No problem with this, although I disagree with the subjective part, it is sensible and logical.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2016 05:06 PM |
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Antalyan said:
You should look at every game in the series as on the single one, not in a huge comparison with all the previous ones. Otherwise your view is distorted.
But I am worried about some of you are not to understand me...
Of course you should, you must compare the game to all the predecessors. H3 looked at h2 and h1 to what went wrong, what could be improved. H4 looked at h1-3. H5 looked at h1-4. H6 tried to look at h1-5. H7 copied h6. The whole problem with h7 is that they took all the complexity and thinking elements away from the game and as result it became bland, generic and boring game(and thus it got crushed in reviews and sold poorly). They didn't look at the previous games when making it, instead they just looked at h6(which is the failure they precisely shouldn't have looked at except as cautionary example) and figured where they could cut corners to cash in on the fans hoping they would order regardless of game quality.
Like why does free Heroes online game have more depth in flanking system compared to h7? Why is the skill system so bad when they had h5 system as example? Why are creature tiers so bland despite everybody hating them in h6? H7 was built on failures and mistakes, it failed to grasp what was good on the series and why those things were good. I mean no matter how you look at things it's not looking good, either H7 failed because devs were incompetent or they failed because they were greedy and were cutting corners. Both are just as equally bad and as result we have the steaming pile of snow h7 in our hands.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 12, 2016 05:09 PM |
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Antalyan said:
You really think it is possible to learn from each of the previous games and improve all of them in all aspects, especially if some of the previous ones were already great? It is such a huge nonsense. I see some improvements in many regards in H7, as well as some downgrades. But I really doubt some Heroes game could do the things you would like to... It must be incredibly difficult to the next game for so famous game series.
I know nothing about you but when I play some game, I do not care about its predecessors, about its past problems or about the fact I dislike the people who had being doing the game. I simply play and then I decide how much I enjoy the features of the game I play (and not the other ones).
Good for you man  I, on the other hand, cannot enjoy new games when its predecessors are better games in all aspects. Good developers learn from previous entries in the series and make better game. What did Ubilimbic learn? Based on H7 I'd say nothing at all. They provide a game that has worse AI than a game made 15 years ago (that has it's flaws), they use H6 (almost the worst heroes game) as basis for their game, they deliver game that has idiotic UI (not looks, but usability!), they take interesting idea (flanking) and dumb it down, they create campaigns that are boring at best (heavily scripted maps so there could be some challenge), they ignore that older games survived because of mapmaking and deny support for maps made for H7... I could go on, but it is pointless. Some people will just ignore the facts that H7 is not a good game, I'd say not even mediocre. The Heroes franchise ended with Tribes of the East. Everything after that is money milking using the beaten corpse of our beloved franchise 
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 12, 2016 05:09 PM |
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Antalyan said:
You really think it is possible to learn from each of the previous games and improve all of them in all aspects, especially if some of the previous ones were already great? It is such a huge nonsense.
Why would it be a nonsense to learn what made H1, H2 and H3 a great success? Why would it be a nonsense to find such features and think about improving them? And why would it be a nonsense to make to use that knowledge to make a great game? Heroes V (well, at least in Tribes of the East) nearly worked out.
Antalyan said:
It must be incredibly difficult to the next game for so famous game series.
Yes, I agree. So making foolish attempts to make a cash grab game are frowned upon, when they could really invest time, money and work into making a better game. It's not impossible, though.
Antalyan said:
I know nothing about you but when I play some game, I do not care about its predecessors, about its past problems or about the fact I dislike the people who had being doing the game. I simply play and then I decide how much I enjoy the features of the game I play (and not the other ones).
I'd reconsider that statement if I were you. For there are certain problems, which could be going on for generations. And you'd have to point out such problems, else that same problem will continue on and on. For the game could be so much more if devs learned from the past mistakes. Else you got the Heroes VI scenario all over again - minor hero specializations, some questionable designs (overusage of spikes, for example) and other things.
Using your argument, Ubi could even pass the same product, slap some different name and you'd be okay with that, since you don't compare it with the previous product, which may or may not even be okay.
Point is that you should compare, else you may not see the progress being done between the predecessor and current game. Same goes for devs, Ubi and Erwan. But, of course, who are we to say to people that "don't have a vision of how Heroes games should look like".
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 12, 2016 05:11 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Using your argument, Ubi could even pass the same product, slap some different name and you'd be okay with that, since you don't compare it with the previous product, which may or may not even be okay.
I thought Ubi did that with H7 and H6 
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 12, 2016 05:14 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 17:15, 12 Jun 2016.
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frostymuaddib said:
EnergyZ said:
Using your argument, Ubi could even pass the same product, slap some different name and you'd be okay with that, since you don't compare it with the previous product, which may or may not even be okay.
I thought Ubi did that with H7 and H6
And that's the sad part.
Someone here said how "Ubi can only make a small success", which I agree with. Ubi simply cannot create anything outstanding. Anything after games like Clash of Heroes, Duel of Champions or Dark Messiah of Might and Magic is just a mess, a clumsy attempt to take people's money.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 12, 2016 05:22 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
What did Ubilimbic learn? Based on H7 I'd say nothing at all. They provide a game that has worse AI than a game made 15 years ago (that has it's flaws), they use H6 (almost the worst heroes game) as basis for their game, they deliver game that has idiotic UI (not looks, but usability!), they take interesting idea (flanking) and dumb it down, they create campaigns that are boring at best (heavily scripted maps so there could be some challenge), they ignore that older games survived because of mapmaking and deny support for maps made for H7... I could go on, but it is pointless. Some people will just ignore the facts that H7 is not a good game, I'd say not even mediocre. The Heroes franchise ended with Tribes of the East. Everything after that is money milking using the beaten corpse of our beloved franchise
How can you say it about the game you do not own?
Also many things will be fixed in TbFH
Why do I even try to explain something...
EnergyZ said:
...
Ok it is true you need to compare sometimes. But you cannot compare the whole game with its predecessors and say which one is better. Also comparison should not prevent you from seeing the good things. If you keep looking for the perfect game with improvements in every aspect, you will never be satissfied.
On the other hand, I admit Ubi failed in more cases during making H7 than they should... If only H7 had been released later. Then there would not be so many pesimists.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2016 05:26 PM |
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If only Heroes 7 was any good then it could probably been good
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
