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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 09, 2016 04:23 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 16:24, 09 Aug 2016.
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Dies_Irae said:
frostymuaddib said:
The only good that came from H7 (not counting destruction of Team Erwin  ) is this thread  . I must thank Genya, Hermes, cleglaw and ChrisD1 for putting a smile on my face every time they defend H7 Keep rocking and never change 
Should I be proud of or concerned about not appearing in that list? 
Not that I have much to defend, given my less-than-Beta-only experience in H7. I will only be called to arms once H6 comes into play. When the game was still in 'development' and the SC alive, sure I could throw in my ideas and concerns and interact with others about it. Now, the only thing I know is based on external sources (Steam forums for one), and I am well aware in what state the game was and is. With my knowledge now being extremely outdated, I'm not sitting in the front line of the discussion anymore.
And Hermes (also ChrisD to an extent), do everyone and yourself a favor and stop picking fights, because that's what your comments look like to me. This thing between 'us' and 'them' has been going on for long enough and both sides should know better than to call each other out. Ashanite and Proud, but by Elrath's blazing eyeballs you should behave like an adult .
Wow. Finally an Ashanite who sounds reasonable.
To be fair, I can sort of understand the dislike for the old universe's sci-fi and fantasy mix. I remember my own first reaction when reading LotA 3/4 many years ago and realizing that magic, gods and even souls were nothing but code in the Ancients data machine. I'm somewhat religious myself and I first felt that the idea I first felt that the idea of souls being processed in databases didn't really taste well. But still it's very original and interesting. Maybe we can let this be the deal in this universe instead of the polytheistic elemental whatever that's been done over and over again (see DnD, Elder Scrolls, Warcraft etc) - after all, we can go and enjoy those too if we feel for it.
I'd even go so far to say that Necromancer Buddhists isn't necessary a terrible idea if done well (after all, Gauldoth was basically a Taoist). But leul.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 09, 2016 04:39 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
I defend Ashan, and mostly because your arguments against it apply to the oldVerse, specially the ripoff one lol.
English is not my native language, and I fail to understand this sentence. Can you please elaborate it?
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Aionb
Known Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 04:47 PM |
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 05:00 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 20:04, 09 Aug 2016.
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Let them have their fun. Its only fair after hundreds of crappy spider jokes pages lol (which somehow didnt break the CoC but now this does lmao)
Edit Maurice: the spider jokes targeted the game and its developers, not other members. This does. Removed the animated gif.
frostymuaddib said:
English is not my native language, and I fail to understand this sentence. Can you please elaborate it?
Many of the negative things that are said of Ashan (generic, unoriginal, ripoff) can apply as easily to the preAshan games. Others, such as Ashan actually bothering to explain creature origins or the elves arent factual negatives (many here dislike those but they are among my favorite things)
Of course not everything about Ashan is perfect but its hard to not sound like an staunch defender when its 5vs1. I dont hate the old universe either (H3 and 4 were among my first games ffs) but i simply happen to like Ashan better.
Gameplay wise they can throw my pretty much anything because as long as a i have heroes (with bios and names) and my creatures i'll have fun. Thats why i generally dont talk about skills/balance/spells/etc (i just pick whatever feels fitting depending of the hero bio). The only times i talk about gameplay things are: when i talk about gamebreaking stuff (such as black screens, crashes or those 10 mins loadscreens) or when i defend "Ashan is influencing the gameplay" arguments (no Galaad, H7 has 7 schools because they picked up the H6 system in a stupid way, not because Ashan)
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 09, 2016 05:01 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
GenyaArikado said:
I defend Ashan, and mostly because your arguments against it apply to the oldVerse, specially the ripoff one lol.
English is not my native language, and I fail to understand this sentence. Can you please elaborate it?
Govorite li Engleski? 
I think he's trying to say that he defends Ashan(al) mostly because he thinks that the criticism of it applies to NWC:s universe as well (which is a load of nonsense of course). No idea what he meant with "the ripoff one" though.
I fully get that can be fun to passionately express the opposite opinion of everyone else just to create some hustle and bustle. Just don't overdo it, though. Most of all: don't make it personal.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 05:21 PM |
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Ashan rips off Warhammer. The old universe ripped off Dungeon & Dragons.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted August 09, 2016 05:27 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 18:04, 09 Aug 2016.
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Hermes said:
... have destroyed the franchise right?
Destroyed the franchise? Weren't you one of those who said they were going nicely? Now you agree that it is destroyed it and blaming fans won't make your statement true as if it's their fault. No one forced Ubi hand to accept and hire whichever team to keep taking the franchise with light and sloppy hands (nor anyone forced those who were hired to abide by their twisted demands, low budget, short deadlines ...). It's like you are hiring new cookers for your restaurant: if they cook bad, people will not be obliged to keep eating it, or pretend they are liking it. Some will, as you and few others proved, still enjoy it and keep the business going. So, in that logic, you can partially take the blame for feeding such business, but having not too many pleased by it, it is bound to close sooner or later. But the main blame rests on the shoulders of those who chose to cook what people don't like to eat and of those who hired those cookers and keep them hired.
Besides, this China mobile market move is predictable, they would go there sooner or later, no matter which setting (Enroth or Ashan) they would use. The fact that they used the old setting is prone to many interpretations. As some could think it's a trolling act (as if Ubi cares about fans' opinions, that is) placing Enroth in such 'cheap' platform, others could conclude that they didn't want to use Ashan – why? The answer might be anything, some defending Ashan (as not to stoop so low and stain Ashan) or attacking Ashan (as not to spread more of that ... thing around). The result is the same: profit; milking a Name until there's nothing left.
A sliver of a hope still rests upon the thought that after Ubi realizes they cannot get any more profit from it, it would dispose of the franchise by selling its rights, instead of locking it in the depths of their intellectual coffins.
But blame, well, it has always been of those with power and money over the franchise.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 09, 2016 05:50 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Many of the negative things that are said of Ashan (generic, unoriginal, ripoff) can apply as easily to the preAshan games.
Easily? No, but I won't bother explaining that to you, as it would be easier to explain to a brick wall.
GenyaArikado said:
Others, such as Ashan actually bothering to explain creature origins or the elves arent factual negatives (many here dislike those but they are among my favorite things)
I don't mind explanations: elves of AvLee are descendants of Vori elves who came to Antagarich in the past. Short, concise, and it leaves place for imagination. If you think that every unit needs a desciption, I disagree. Why would a pikeman, or a wolf, or an archer have a long description? But, that is just my oppinion.
GenyaArikado said:
Of course not everything about Ashan is perfect but its hard to not sound like an staunch defender when its 5vs1. I dont hate the old universe either (H3 and 4 were among my first games ffs) but i simply happen to like Ashan better.
I respect that. And I expect you to respect if someone hates Ashan.
GenyaArikado said:
Gameplay wise they can throw my pretty much anything because as long as a i have heroes (with bios and names) and my creatures i'll have fun. Thats why i generally dont talk about skills/balance/spells/etc (i just pick whatever feels fitting depending of the hero bio).
That explains how you like H6/H7 
GenyaArikado said:
The only times i talk about gameplay things are: when i talk about gamebreaking stuff (such as black screens, crashes or those 10 mins loadscreens)
Hmmm, then you should post a lot more...
GenyaArikado said:
or when i defend "Ashan is influencing the gameplay" arguments (no Galaad, H7 has 7 schools because they picked up the H6 system in a stupid way, not because Ashan)
LOL. The reason for 7 schools was lore, that was retconned as hell after H5. They forced 7 magic schools because of the lore (along of limitations which race can learn which school). Tell me, what is the other thing that was forcig them to stick to 7 schools? They could've returned to 4 from H5?
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 09, 2016 06:14 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 18:15, 09 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
no Galaad, H7 has 7 schools because they picked up the H6 system in a stupid way, not because Ashan
It's really mind boggling how they decided to ditch one of few things H5 did well: the magic and skill system.
frostymuaddib said:
That explains how you like H6/H7
+1
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 09, 2016 06:25 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 18:29, 09 Aug 2016.
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frostymuaddib said:
I don't mind explanations: elves of AvLee are descendants of Vori elves who came to Antagarich in the past. Short, concise, and it leaves place for imagination. If you think that every unit needs a desciption, I disagree. Why would a pikeman, or a wolf, or an archer have a long description? But, that is just my oppinion.
This is the big advantage of the old lore. It had room for creativity and imagination. Erwin's Bible of Asha wasn't all over the place. You can't even make a single scenario without it being full with references to Asha, Spider Goods etc.
Even ES is better in this regard, while the gods are very present there as well they are somewhat vague and it isn't really obvious that they are what their worshippers believe them to be - the interpretation of them varies greatly from nation to nation.
GenyaArikado said:
Many of the negative things that are said of Ashan (generic, unoriginal, ripoff) can apply as easily to the preAshan games.
Not - it can't really. None of M&M/HoMM's races were a blatant rip off of stuff from other popular genres with the aim of attracting younger gamers and their cash. HoMM 1 started with 4 extremely original factions - the Warlock culture that was brutally snowed by Erwin was basically totally unique to the M&M world, as was (to a lesser extent) the Sorceress/nature and Barbarian cultures. Sure - the later two exist in some shape or form in other universes as well, but they had a very distinct flavour here, instead of "unlike in DnD instead of spiders the dark elves worship dragons"  to almost quote Fabrice about H5. Even the very idea of having factions/nations based around themes rather than races is fairly unique to M&M compared to other big fantasy game series (Warcraft, BG/Neverwinter, ES).
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 06:27 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
Easily? No, but I won't bother explaining that to you, as it would be easier to explain to a brick wall.
You dont need to explain me. I already explained why they do and i wrote those posts in less than 10 mins so yeah, it was "easily".
Lets pretend i said Enroth had generic visuals, uninspired factions and ripped off DnD. Prove me wrong
Quote:
I don't mind explanations: elves of AvLee are descendants of Vori elves who came to Antagarich in the past. Short, concise, and it leaves place for imagination. If you think that every unit needs a desciption, I disagree. Why would a pikeman, or a wolf, or an archer have a long description? But, that is just my oppinion.
Exactly, its an opinion. You dislike it. However its not factually negative so the "Ashan is crap because it explains all" is no more valid than "Enroth is crap because it doesnt explain snow"
Quote:
I respect that. And I expect you to respect if someone hates Ashan.
Lmao "brickwall"
Quote:
That explains how you like H6/H7
I have never made it a secret.
Quote:
Hmmm, then you should post a lot more...
Unlike you, i realize of the pointlessness of discussing to no end things i dont like. Take a clue from CH
Quote:
LOL. The reason for 7 schools was lore, that was retconned as hell after H5. They forced 7 magic schools because of the lore (along of limitations which race can learn which school). Tell me, what is the other thing that was forcig them to stick to 7 schools? They could've returned to 4 from H5?
The reason for 7 schools being actually reflected in gameplay was H6 system where they had both skills and spells so they could fill them up
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted August 09, 2016 06:44 PM |
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I strongly believe if we all have a look 50 or 500 pages back, the dicussion will be exactly the same as they are now.
There will ALWAYS be people who like the game, as well as the people who dislike it. It's like day and night.
I think one of the worst things which can happen is to let anyone change your opinion just because of endless repeating his own one. Everyone should believe their own feelings. I have never understood the people asking "Is the game x good for me?". Nobody can tell you, as well as nobody can objectively call the game to be good or bad.
I know what I am talking about. For some time, I got influenced a bit by the amount of negative reactions against the H6 game here. Only playing the game again with clear head reminded me of the hundreds of great hours I have already spent in the game.
frostymuaddib said:
I must thank Genya, Hermes, cleglaw and ChrisD1 for putting a smile on my face every time they defend H7
You forgot me I guess
Minastir said:
If there would be a new Heroes game, let's just move on to a new universe, i don't even care about post DM Ashan, just, move on
I don't see high difference between these two things. Probably only the mix of factions I would not like to see. It always depends on how good are the storywriters, not the world (read my posts dozens of pages back).
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 07:49 PM |
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AnkVaati said:
Not - it can't really. None of M&M/HoMM's races were a blatant rip off of stuff from other popular genres
Out of the top of my head we have gnolls, gorgon, beholder, troglodyte and lizardmen from DnD. Medusa and golem from Harryhousen films. Literally Orlok and literally Bela Lugosi vampires
Quote:
HoMM 1 started with 4 extremely original factions - the Warlock culture
...which consisted of the typical stock villain overlord creatures lead by an evil magician with brutally destructive powers.
May i remind you that H3 dungeon society consists of "brutal and power hungry overlords, their allies and creatures under their thrall". Change overlord with clanlord and you got Ashan dungeon.
Quote:
Sorceress/nature and Barbarian cultures. Sure - the later two exist in some shape or form in other universes as well, but they had a very distinct flavour here
Not really
Quote:
"unlike in DnD instead of spiders the dark elves worship dragons" to almost quote Fabrice about H5.
Which is why dungeon was reworked for H6
Even the very idea of having factions/nations based around themes rather than races is fairly unique to M&M
Do you grasp than in H3 towns were based around races as well right?
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 09, 2016 07:53 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 20:00, 09 Aug 2016.
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Antalyan said:
I strongly believe if we all have a look 50 or 500 pages back, the dicussion will be exactly the same as they are now.
Well daa, TbF was recently released so go figure. C*ap will stay c*ap, the only fault of people here being that they don't want to let it go and move on, but hey I'm also still spamming here so I don't blame them
AnkVaati said:
Hermes said:
Yah, be wise all people who love this game are actually Ubi employees am I right? Rofl
Endless legends is a boring soulles slog of a game..
2/10. No one who has actually played the game will believe that someone think's it is a "soulles" slog of a game, especially in comparison to H6-7 and it's spider dragon cult lore. Maybe you could try focus on the fact that Sci fi/Fantasy mix is just soooo 80/90's/00's and young players want stuff they can recognise from Warcraft, Neverwinter and LoTR. Or something.
Yeah, one of the most well recieved and original 4X strategy games made by a half-indie EUROPEAN studio (which was recently bought by Sega, a juggernaut on the RTS market, gee I wonder why?), that is probably smaller then Triumph, which made another great game btw - AoW III. I might be wrong here, but budget-wise I don't suppose there was much difference between them and Limbic... plus those games didn't have much of a marketing campaign yet they sold really well.
Besides that statement about EL alone, even when not counting the obvious trolling your practicing here @Hermes, puts you in the 'don't-mind-him' tier for me...
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 09, 2016 07:54 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 20:03, 09 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
May i remind you that H3 dungeon society consists of "brutal and power hungry overlords, their allies and creatures under their thrall". Change overlord with clanlord and you got Ashan dungeon.
Yeah, and add dark emo elves and a dark dragon goddess and make them cast dark magic than offensive spells. *That* is the Ashan Dungeon.
GenyaArikado said:
Do you grasp than in H3 towns were based around races as well right?
Well, you would be partially right, but only because towns have one "main" race and a few additions. Even Inferno had them efreet and kreegans (which aren't the same).
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 09, 2016 07:58 PM |
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Antalyan said:
frostymuaddib said:
I must thank Genya, Hermes, cleglaw and ChrisD1 for putting a smile on my face every time they defend H7
You forgot me I guess
That's mostly because the tone of your posts isn't as bitter as theirs, I guess .
Anyway, I am going to clean up the thread some. Brukernavern already posted a reminder towards the CoC about provocations and I can still feel things smoldering. Posts that are either provocative in my eyes or don't have much to do with H7 in particular are likely gone within a bunch of minutes.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 09, 2016 07:59 PM |
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And I am not certain why some people are indifferent with the garbage Ubi has given to us. They gave us Erwin's spider pipe dreams. Then again, I shouldn't complain too much, considering what the MM team could've done to Enroth, then. Just stating how the mood of the community could've changed if Enroth (or, at least, Axeoth) were to return AND Erwin "retired" from his position.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 09, 2016 08:01 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 20:03, 09 Aug 2016.
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I think Erwin is our own little Peter Molyneux...
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted August 09, 2016 08:06 PM |
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Maurice said:
Anyway, I am going to clean up the thread some. Brukernavern already posted a reminder towards the CoC about provocations and I can still feel things smoldering. Posts that are either provocative in my eyes or don't have much to do with H7 in particular are likely gone within a bunch of minutes.
Are you going to delete the provocations against the Might & Magic (former) creative director? Just curious, then the amount of pages could decrease really much
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 08:10 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 20:20, 09 Aug 2016.
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Edit Maurice: If you have a problem with the way the forum is being moderated, take it to PM's with the moderator(s) in question.
As it is, I've deleted just about as many posts on both sides of the fence, if not more on the "hater" side. We will tolerate no provocations, as per the CoC. End of edit.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
