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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 09, 2016 09:29 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 21:31, 09 Aug 2016.
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Hermes said:
Voting for a faction or creature line up just led to people who didn't get what they wanted to whine. And to whine some more for not having story to take place where they wanted, or for skills not working in the exact way THEY wanted, etc.
Instead of thanking the devs that such process was even PART of the development.
To me, all those line-ups had some flaws, one way or the other. Besides, credit should go where it is due. I would be thankful if they gathered fan feedback from Heroes VI and used it more effectively, rather than ignoring a large part of it and making vote charades.
For all I know is that voting diverted a lot of fans against each other. And not just in line-ups, but in choosing which faction goes in the game as well.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted August 09, 2016 09:37 PM |
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3lion said:
If you check patch notes in game files (root folder) you will find the the latest patch is marked as "Add-On 1 — Fortress".
I believe it is not a time to put an end with H7 yet.
That would be really amazing but what the complete edition release means then?
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 09, 2016 09:49 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
ROFL 
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Aionb
Known Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 10:02 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
ROFL
Indeed, flawless work
It could make it to a loading screen in the Ashan to the trashcan mod. Or the "loose campaign/battle animation".
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 09, 2016 10:05 PM |
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Aionb said:
It could make it to a loading screen in the Ashan to the trashcan mod. Or the "loose campaign/battle animation".
Now that is a good idea
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 09, 2016 10:10 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 22:15, 09 Aug 2016.
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LizardWarrior said:
then this is okay, unless challenged by Erwin himself
(images not quoted)
It's on the edge, though I am letting it slide for now.
Hermes and Aionb, I would like to remind you of the CoC, that provocations aren't tolerated. That includes veiled ones; I've edited those out of your posts. Since both of you made them, I will just look at both of you sternly for now  ... and please let's leave it at that.
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 10:17 PM |
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Antalyan said:
That would be really amazing but what the complete edition release means then?
It's just the first and last addon, don't get your hopes up.
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted August 09, 2016 10:22 PM |
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PandaTar said:
3lion said:
If you check patch notes in game files (root folder) you will find the the latest patch is marked as "Add-On 1 — Fortress".
I believe it is not a time to put an end with H7 yet.
Why? Due the numbering?
Yes. Why mention a number if you are not going to count?
What Complete Edition means then?.. Well.. Something like season pass?
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted August 09, 2016 10:27 PM |
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Hermes said:
Most of people on this forum hated H7 before it even released just for not giving in to pressure and not abandoning its own carefully created world in favour of nonsensical one from 1990s. [. . .] Instead of thanking the devs that such process was even PART of the development.
If you were attending the forum more carefully you would know that people were either optimistic, i.e. they believed that the game would be good (I belonged here), while there were also those that were cautious in what should we expect from Ubi. Basically their attitude was: wait and see or hope for the best, but expect the worst. Yes, there are some members who hate Ashan and will not play games set in Ashan, but such members are usually found in H3 corner rather than H7 (Sal, for example). The hatred that you speak of stems from the way Ubi has worked since H5:TOTE. They pretend to include the fans in developing the game, pretend to listen to their feedback, but include them in discussions of the mechanics only when it is already too late to implement any change. (It happened for H6, and it was repeated with H7. Why? You can only ask the developers, and hope that they will provide you with a satisfactory answer.) Such actions result in the games that are not coherent, and whose mechanics are working against the game itself. This has been already analysed, explained and exemplified by JJ and some other members here, who understand the game mechanics much better than some people who have just discovered Heroes franchise (though its not just limited to them). But of course some fans-hater totally ignored this and started yelling things like: blind by nostalgia, haters gonna hate, etc. (gently refers to your quote)
As far as development regarding the voting on SC is concerned, it is almost non-existent, or rather insignificant. Voting for the factions okay, yeah we have some power there. But the question is why haven't they gave an option to vote which 6 faction do we want in the game? Than again, why should we vote for the factions in the first place? Why don't we include all 9 of them? Despite the fact that many people hate Ashan, it has potential to provide us with more than 9 factions (Free cities, Crimson wizards, Shantiris, Voidmancers, various subfactions such as the red Haven in H5, etc.), but the incompetent people are only sticking to those faction of H3 (talking about being stuck in nostalgia...) with the exception of Dwarven faction. (A personal remark here: it is truly sad that people who have created Ashan are sticking closely to the faction established in H3 that they are not willing to freely explore their own world. They even limited themselves to the 9 accursed faction, even though they have some pretty interesting concepts for other factions. It is really regrettable. I guess that I would understand that they cannot use the potential of someone else's world such as Enroth and Axeoth, but to be unable to do that with your own creation that you know the best... is kinda, well incompetent or plain stupid.) The issue here is that this game is not provided with large budget so it cannot provide us with many faction with new units - a fact confirmed by Limbic employee on one of their twitch streams.
As far as the town screen voting is concerned it is just aesthetics, that is easily changed unlike the game mechanics which either make a great game or break the game. Voting for which style the game factions will play is also rather insignificant in my point of view, but I'll let the people who are experts in H7 say whether it had an impact on the game or not (not including the different creatures in the three lineups). I'm not sure if there were some other voting sessions. However, I would like to return once again on the game mechanics. I believe that it was Brukernavn who posted a post (now months ago) regarding their reveal of game mechanics, such as skill wheel, and some other stuff. In that post he clearly provided chronological posts (read lies and avoidance to clearly answer the topic until it was too late to do anything since it was already in stone but they did not wanted to say that...) made on SC on how they approached the topic. However, that topic that was crucial was avoided and even as I said lied about, which only confirms already negative perception of Ubi. So, lets just say for the sake of the argument that most people did hate the game before it was published, don't you think that it is at least justified because of Ubi's actions? While discussing the worlds of Heroes games, everyone has an opinion and preference about that, that doesn't need to be discussed since it is subjective. The only thing that is worth discussing is the presentation of that world and how do they employ it in their game.
:sigh: It is pretty late, I'm tired and I lost my line of thought what I wanted to say. So, I'll just end it here, for now... Sorry for convoluted post. 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 09, 2016 10:43 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 22:48, 09 Aug 2016.
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For me, personally, I was sceptical of the game as it developed. I admit I was mildly optimistic about the cooperation they sought with the various communities, the Shadow Council they created as well as the VIP council - until I started to realise they were just lightning conduits, meant to sap the energy of the community without really listening to it.
As for the world itself, it could have worked just like any other world. The one thing where they went wrong, though, was in how much impact the background lore had on the actual game itself. Everything they made was drenched in the seven Dragon Gods and everything was explained in great detail. The end result of this was that the lore, which should have provided fertile soil for all sorts of events and adventures, actually became a ball and chain that dictated pretty much everything. The faction buildup suffers from this on a gameplay level, just as well as the stories on a campaign level. The game shouldn't relate the lore - it should relate stories that spring forth from that lore!
By tieing everything into those seven Dragon Gods (all aspects of Asha), they made the cultural background as far as religion goes pretty unanimous. In previous Heroes titles, this wasn't the case - in fact, religion didn't play a dominant role at all - which made for stronger cultural differences between the factions and thereby for richer stories about strife and conflict. Thinking back to Armageddon's Blade, the Stronghold campaign was about claiming the Krewlod throne through sheer might; the Fire Witch campaign was against an Undead warlord, while the events in Krewlod were mentioned in the background, most notably for the effects the change of power there could have on Tatalia. Dracon's campaign about becoming a Dragon Slayer also referred to it - but then about the Crystal his mother took with her on her return from that Festival, to fashion him a Crystal Dragon from it. These story connections connected the world too, even though they were of totally different focus and interest of the people involved.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 09, 2016 10:54 PM |
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Maurice said:
For me, personally, I was sceptical of the game as it developed. I admit I was mildly optimistic about the cooperation they sought with the various communities, the Shadow Council they created as well as the VIP council - until I started to realise they were just lightning conduits, meant to sap the energy of the community without really listening to it.
I do recall I was also happy, at the start, for Heroes VII's development (which made me come here, to this place, at one point). However, disappointment grew larger and bursted when Necropolis faction was revealed. Basically, anything after was just an attempt to try hype the game again, but failed after the "lore philosophy" article was launched.
But it made as all see clearly what Ubi was doing, the MM team's plans, Limbic's involvement and the VIP getting hired and fired. The difference is that some refused to believe in such facts, and still do, unfortunately.
____________
Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 09, 2016 10:59 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Oh yeah H7 is dead. We'll be "lucky" if it gets a patch after this.
On the good side, Civ6 has the literal amazons now
Love it. Love the Scythians and the other news like that governments are back (but with some kind of civics too - sounds perfect IMHO) and that religion is more important than ever. Just <3. Can't wait to play it. This is what caring about a franchise and nurturing looks like, Ubi. This is how things can get if you don't rush everything or ignore/piss on the fans on every possible occasion. 
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted August 09, 2016 11:08 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 23:09, 09 Aug 2016.
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3lion said:
Yes. Why mention a number if you are not going to count?
What Complete Edition means then?.. Well.. Something like season pass?
Yeah, some conflict of naming if they would have meant 1 for first. But it would look odd or lame writing First and Last Add-On – Fortress. ^_^ Would sound dramatic.
Of course, they could just write Add-On – Fortress and go eating ice-creams.
I do believe, though, that's the last of H7 from them. So, Complete is Complete.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted August 09, 2016 11:11 PM |
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Sleeping_Sun said:
I believe that it was Brukernavn who posted a post (now months ago) regarding their reveal of game mechanics, such as skill wheel, and some other stuff. In that post he clearly provided chronological posts (read lies and avoidance to clearly answer the topic until it was too late to do anything since it was already in stone but they did not wanted to say that...) made on SC on how they approached the topic. However, that topic that was crucial was avoided and even as I said lied about, which only confirms already negative perception of Ubi.
You mean this post?
I think the way Ubisoft has lead the development of H7 caused more resentment from fans than disagreement with the vision and direction of the game itself.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2016 12:55 AM |
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Brukernavn said:
I think the way Ubisoft has lead the development of H7 caused more resentment from fans than disagreement with the vision and direction of the game itself.
To be honest, if the game wasn't so blatantly treated like crap by Ubi and if it wasn't so sluggish and buggish, I think a good 50% of the negativity about it -at least- would simply not be there.
You may dislike lore or aesthethics or even certain aspects of the gameplay, but you could come to accept it eventually, adapt to them and even find them enjoyable at some point - this was my experience with HOMM4. If you feel insulted and misled by the producers over and over and you can't even play the game without going hysteric, there's a good chance you'll never ever grow to like it.
Honestly, for how much I dislike most or Team Erwan's decisions, I am amazed at how he is getting all the blame and Ubisoft so little.
"Find a beloved franchise ---> Make one game every 2 year without any attention to quality or solidity ---> Take whatever you can from fans of the franchise ---> Suck the franchise dry ---> Abandon the franchise to die"
This has been Ubi's standard procedure for a long time now. They aren't interested increating something solid and accessible as HOMM3 that lasts long... at all. People really think it all stems only from Erwan LeBreton's supposed raving lunacy? It doesn't.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 10, 2016 01:04 AM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 01:09, 10 Aug 2016.
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Momo said:
Honestly, for how much I dislike most or Team Erwan's decisions, I am amazed at how he is getting all the blame and Ubisoft so little.
Ubitopia is also responsible for the mess. However, Erwin could've simply quit his job, or seek some advice. Instead, he sows spider seeds, accompanied by emo elves and dragon gods.
Ubi could've simply banished him after Heroes VI fiasco. But they did not, for some reason. Regardless, their ignorance also made a lot of angry fans, and not just of Might and Magic fanbase.
The only conclusion, as many said, is that Vivendi buys out Ubisoft. Though, as it looks now, I don't think there is much to be bought, seeing how everything is in bad shape - both the developers and the fans.
But who are we to say we are right, when Ubi, after less than a week declares publishing a MM mobile game and a MMO to China? Money is the only language they speak, and that's something they understand when Vivendi acts in the stock market, to buy their shareholdings.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2016 01:31 AM |
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Edited by Momo at 01:35, 10 Aug 2016.
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EnergyZ said:
Ubi could've simply banished him after Heroes VI fiasco. But they did not, for some reason. Regardless, their ignorance also made a lot of angry fans, and not just of Might and Magic fanbase.
You're missing the link here. I don't think anyone of us liked anything of HOMM6 except the art direction. Hell, "I" liked it, many hated even that. Why by the Ancients' name is Erwan LeBreton still there? He didn't even draw the creatures, did he?
It's not "for some reason", it's because that's how Ubi does things. Ubi doesn't want to create the next HOMM3. It doesn't want to create the solid game that lasts years on the shelves.
I STILL CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY NO ONE CAN SEE THIS. UBI DOESN'T WANT TO CREATE ANOTHER HOMM3. IF ANYTHING, IT WANTS TO WORK ACTIVELY TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING.
Paint yourself a scenario like a new HOMM3 coming out, let's call it "HOMM8 the Perfect". You see, "HOMM8 the Perfect" is like a nightmare to them. It means they can't keep recycling material (both gameplay, lore and graphics) and keep selling titles at a AAA pricetag. At the very best they could muster some money by making expansions of this hypothetical "HOMM8 the Perfect".
And even making expansions and add-ons to that "HOMM8 the Perfect" takes a lot of work because, you see, HOMM1-2-3 all followed the same principle: to start where the previous game left and offer more: more factions, more skills, more options, etc... which means that, for instance, in a world of your own crafting with 9 factions (Human, Dwarves, Elves, Naga, Wizards, Demons, Undeads, Orcs, Dark Elves) you have absolutely no reason to make a game with less than those 9 factions. Or even if you cannot (for example for budget reasons) make all 9 into "HOMM8 the Perfect", you'll still work to expand your features and take all 9 factions into "HOMM9 the Perfect-er". Which means eventually you'll reach a point in which you have used all your creative material until a new author starts a new creative process (whenever will that be). This way instead you can randomly cut out factions (today the elves and dwarves, tomorrow inferno and naga, etc) and features (let's say the caravan) and various other contents because you are already thinking about selling the next add-on or even the next installment of the series. And you could even add features without thinking too much if they're good for the game (for instance, town conversion or reputation system) because you can always cut them the next time, revive it some installments later, etc etc etc
It's not about creating a long-lasting, satisfying product. It's about making a lot of unstatisfying products very quickly and sell them all and leave you hungry for the next one. It's fast food, not a restaurant.
THAT'S HOW UBI ROLLS, GUYS.
Ubi has no reason to fire Erwan at all. Erwan is in fact the director they dream of. It creates hype and buzz and sells a product without worrying too much that it is unbalanced, undeveloped, unpolished, unfinished. Which is fine to them. It's even better, to them.
Do you guys all really think that Erwan is some madman who is ruining a franchise for the pleasure? That no one notices? Or that, if tomorrow Erwan gets killed by a lightning strike (let's hope not) or fired to appease our distaste for him, the series will magically start getting in better shape? Hell no.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted August 10, 2016 01:32 AM |
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Momo said:
Honestly, for how much I dislike most or Team Erwan's decisions, I am amazed at how he is getting all the blame and Ubisoft so little.
People really think it all stems only from Erwan LeBreton's supposed raving lunacy? It doesn't.
anybody who is sane, will agree that in simplified and approximate but fair terms, Erwin bears the responsibility and warrants the praise or blame for content (bad design on paper, bad ideas, bad lineups, bad world and lore, bad art, bad vision, failed management of the project, failure to capture the spirit of the series, within reason most of the avoidable things that suck on a creative and immediate managerial level in terms of the IP are governed by Erwin) lol
Yves is the man to blame or praise for budget, time constraints, pricing, DRM and some of the other publisher antics, also for providing Erwin the rope to do what he has done, including when he provides Erwin a very short rope (small budget and time constraints),
but we must also bear in mind, Yves' behaviour is more or less a generic CEO agenda agnostic to the content, and is more or less a reaction to both the market and Erwin's activities (e.g. Yves doesn't really care, all he wants is cash, if he is getting the cash he will not really interfere, hence when Erwin hires a ****** developer, produces a commercial, critical or managerial disaster, and Yves takes away Erwin's resources in response, we should consider whether we necessarily blame Yves) lol
that is why, there are more caricatures and parodies of Erwin than there are of Yves, but don't get me wrong I would love to see more Yves memes, especially now that Erwin seems to be out of the picture lol
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted August 10, 2016 01:43 AM |
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EnergyZ said:
The only conclusion, as many said, is that Vivendi buys out Ubisoft. Though, as it looks now, I don't think there is much to be bought, seeing how everything is in bad shape - both the developers and the fans.
What may you think that Vivendi cares about Might&Magic? Vivendi's actions shows that they doesn't follow any rules of decorum and they care only about money. And Ubi not in that bad shape. I'd say they are not in a bad shape at all. They have a lot of good and successful franchises. Their last release The Division was the most successful new IP release ever. There is a lot to be bought.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2016 01:43 AM |
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Edited by Momo at 01:48, 10 Aug 2016.
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verriker said:
stuff
I appreciate many of your thoughts but I am still displeased that you consider as objective that the gameplay is bad as the art is bad. Art is subjective and I enjoyed the art of HOMM6 quite a lot. In fact I often found the series to be aesthetically pleasing from HOMM3 to today, perhaps HOMM4 was the one I had a weird feeling for. And I also like much that it changes in each installment (which is why I dislike the reuse of models a lot). I don't understand how many can say the art is "objectively" a fault of the series, especially when there are so many, more blatant and undeniable faults. But we had this argument already ^_^
The lore is a more complex matter, I think Ashan's lore is more simplified and less appealing than the original one but I still think you could get good stories out of Ashan. And for the 100th time I also don't think ascetic undeads or mad-sci wizards or rebellious orcs were a bad move. You could DEFINITELY make a good story with those elements, or more. They didn't though, and this too is an argument I already had in the forums these days ^_^
About Erwan being "out of the picture" I don't know what you are talking about -you're probably better informed than me- but in any case I redirect you to the post above yours, which you probably didn't read as we wrote at the same time. I'll be more enthusiast when Ubi is out of the picture, if that ever happens. I'd still be delighted to be proven wrong, though.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
