|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:31 PM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 16:34, 30 Jan 2015.
|
War-overlord said:
Dave_Jame said:
To be fair WO,I would also like to see that quote, since I'm reading my copy and I can't find the exact description of the ritual, other the "They udergo an excrutiating ritual, but gain an rejuvenated body, cleansed off all defects" (page 127, part 1) and "... and it is not blood, but the sacred spider's venom, that now flows in their viens. However, they need to drink human blood on regular basis to thin this venom down, and prevent it from dessolving their body from the inside." (page 127, part 3)
Liches of themselves are dessicated husks of bodies, which is why with continued aging they start resembling mummies. Meaning that they are dried, they have no liquid of themselves. Page 127, part 2.
Vampires however have Venom flowing through their veins. That Venom is a liquid that was not present when they were Liches. If it was, they would not have been desicated. Furthermore, if that Venom was already present when the person in question was still a Lich, as described it would have dissolved him, for this dessication implies that the Lich does not have blood of himself anymore.
Dude! The process where one becomes a lich is CONSUMING Namtaru venom! From the Heroes 6 Lich bio:
"Higher ranking Necromancers are given a life-prolonging elixir that is milked from the venom of the Namtarus, Asha’s sacred spider spirits, that they must mix with their food. This “treatment” turns them into Asakkus, or “Liches”, their bodies desiccated but now freed from the passions of the flesh. They keep aging however, until they resemble little more than walking mummies. The venom mixture also colors their entire eyes bright green"
So there already IS Namtaru venom in them. Case closed.
Also, the amount of inconsistencies is through the roof, since dead bodies don't age and don't need sustenance, and if they're not dead then what the snow are they doing in Necropolis and why are they even called "Liches"?! And also the Namtaru venom changes effects, where it desiccates and preserves the body of a Lich but then in Vampires it corrodes it. LoL.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:35 PM |
|
|
Minion said:
"As for campaign we just need some simple plot like faction X attacks faction Y or peasant becomes a king, 2 lines of text"
Just no, and NO. 
9 out of 10 scientists recommend me as your spokesman, they also recommend you to understand comedy and satire 
Quote:
our
Oh the irony
|
|
supertommy
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:42 PM |
|
|
Storm-Giant said:
Good to hear about Necropolis theme, I can't wait 
Same. I love what we've heard so far from Haven and Academy, and Necropolis theme is always exciting.
|
|
Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:47 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
So there already IS Namtaru venom in them. Case closed.
Dude, if you drink something which got you desiccated, that means that you don't have that liquid in yourself. Is it really so hard to understand? Green eyes are a post-effect.
Liches are Undead indeed, they just transform from living to dead through the venom. They don't actually die and rise again, it's more like in old Vampire tales when a Vampire bites you and you become a Vampire. Metamorphosis.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
|
|
Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:48 PM |
|
|
Storm-Giant said:
Good to hear about Necropolis theme, I can't wait
Intorducing H8:
Erwan: "Hello Heroes, here at Ubisoft, we are always considerate and passionate about Heroes series. We have decided to learn from previous games and decided on what's realy important in next H8.
We belive this will be the best game so far, as it will have 3 Necropolis factions. There will be Void Necropolis, Ashan Necropolis aswell as Erathia Necropolis. We have Multiverse and Interdimentional rifts in our new lore to support this. Stay tuned for more info about this!
We didn't forget about other faction aswell, but as they are clearly not important to anyone, have decided to remove them completly.
This is probably our best decision so far, as it will allow us to have more neutral units, that will come as a reused units from previous factions. We belive fans will still love them, as clearly only Necropolis is important." 
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:49 PM |
|
|
|
Theoretically they aren't undead, because they were never dead, the venom doesn't kill them then revives them as liches after a period of time, it just transforms them into liches, so it's more like an elixir of immortality than a tincture of resurrection
|
|
Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:50 PM |
|
|
Maurice said:
Just grabbing back to this statement, because I do see a clear advantage. In the current setting, a Lich needs to sustain himself with blood of the Mother Namtaru. The story with Sandro clearly shows a weakness there, when he tries (but fails, thanks to the player's interference) to erase the Mother Namtaru from existence and from history. All Liches and Vampires start to die off all over the place.
That's a serious weakness exposed by Sandro right then and there. I can't imagine any intelligent being not taking countermeasures against such a single point of failure in their survival. Finding other means to sustain oneself in a future event that the Mother Namtaru is unavailable would seem a logical drive. Even if it means tapping into Void Magic energy, it doesn't mean they need to adopt the same philosophy as our good and dear Sandro.
They're a cult, with the Spider as their Goddess. I don't really imagine them going "Oh by the way, let's prepare in case the mighty Avatar of our beloved, eternal Goddess, she who rules over Life and Death, disappears. You know, just in case." That would be going against their faith Only the most cynical/pragmatic among them might prepare contingencies, and they are a minority -- and probably not the one you'd find on a battlefield For the others, the possibility of the Mother Namtaru disappearing for good is just inthinkable. After all, Sandro tried to erase her, but he failed. And since his attempt, she half-exists in the Spirit World anyway, making her even more like the Spider Goddess in the eyes of the cultists.
@Lizard Warrior: how can I avoid you when I answered several of your posts already? I also have work to do, you know? 
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:56 PM |
|
|
Marzhin said:
And since his attempt, she half-exists in the Spirit World anyway, making her even more like the Spider Goddess in the eyes of the cultists.
OH! So it actually IS possible to be half in the Spirit World and half in the Physical World!
SEE THAT WO?!
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:56 PM |
|
|
Quote:
@Lizard Warrior: how can I avoid you when I answered several of your posts already? I also have work to do, you know?
it's Friday, trash the office and go home
|
|
Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 04:59 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
OH! So it actually IS possible to be half in the Spirit World and half in the Physical World!
When you're the Avatar of a Goddess, you can do pretty much whatever you want. Doesn't mean it's that easy for the mortal races.
|
|
Danny
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:01 PM |
|
|
Zombi_Wizzard said:
Storm-Giant said:
Good to hear about Necropolis theme, I can't wait
Intorducing H8:
Erwan: "Hello Heroes, here at Ubisoft, we are always considerate and passionate about Heroes series. We have decided to learn from previous games and decided on what's realy important in next H8.
We belive this will be the best game so far, as it will have 3 Necropolis factions. There will be Void Necropolis, Ashan Necropolis aswell as Erathia Necropolis. We have Multiverse and Interdimentional rifts in our new lore to support this. Stay tuned for more info about this!
We didn't forget about other faction aswell, but as they are clearly not important to anyone, have decided to remove them completly.
This is probably our best decision so far, as it will allow us to have more neutral units, that will come as a reused units from previous factions. We belive fans will still love them, as clearly only Necropolis is important."
*DEAD*
Seriously, I always found it kinda weird that for many fans the most important thing in the game are the undead creatures. Then again, The Walking Dead is the biggest show right now so I'm definitely missing out the skeleton/zombie/vampire obsession...
|
|
cleglaw
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:02 PM |
|
|
Marzhin said:
, Sandro tried to erase her, but he failed. And since his attempt, she half-exists in the Spirit World anyway, making her even more like the Spider Goddess in the eyes of the cultists.
so a he proves their goddess can get seriously hurt, and they worship her more? what da snow?
|
|
Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:04 PM |
|
|
cleglaw said:
so a he proves their goddess can get seriously hurt, and they worship her more? what da snow?
It's called religion.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:06 PM |
|
|
|
cleglaw
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:06 PM |
|
|
Marzhin said:
cleglaw said:
so he proves their goddess can get seriously hurt, and they worship her more? what da snow?
It's called religion.
confession, i never get that thing. lol
*sneaks back into cave*
|
|
Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:08 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
It's called Ashan.
I know of a religion where the avatar of a God died on a cross then came back to life and is still worshipped more than 2000 years later.
Rings a bell?
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:08 PM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 17:15, 30 Jan 2015.
|
cleglaw said:
Marzhin said:
cleglaw said:
so he proves their goddess can get seriously hurt, and they worship her more? what da snow?
It's called religion.
confession, i never get that thing. lol
Maybe it's because you're sane?
Marzhin said:
Stevie said:
It's called Ashan.
I know of a religion where the avatar of a God died on a cross then came back to life and is still worshipped more than 2000 years later.
Rings a bell?
And that Avatar of God sought that on purpose and with very good reason as it was a Sacrifice that brought salvation, unlike the case of the Namtaru where there was no similar purpose.
Voluntary sacrifice =/= Namtaru extermination.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:11 PM |
|
|
it still feels like another unconvincing argument that could easily go the other way, to have the liches *not* all be hyper religious nutjobs putting their eggs in one basket, if only the writers *want* it to
I can't believe the irony of we had Gauldoth in Heroes 4 eat spiders and warn us all about the dangers of fundamentalism,
and then what do you know, in all Heroes games after that all of our necromancers are in a brainless cult of spider fanatics lol
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:13 PM |
|
|
verriker said:
I can't believe the irony of we had Gauldoth in Heroes 4 eat spiders and warn us all about the dangers of fundamentalism,
and then what do you know, in all Heroes games after that all of our necromancers are in a brainless cult of spider fanatics lol
QP the man!
____________
|
|
Sir_Godspeed
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 05:16 PM |
|
|
I always found it a bit odd that the MAJORITY of Necromancers are supposedly this religious cult. They never came off like that in HV (which, I know, is only semi-canon by now), but more importantly, they stem from the mages of the Seven Cities who are essentially apatheists (ie. they don't really care about the gods in any major fashion.) And then this faction appears that finds a way to cheat death.... to honour the goddess of death? Wuh..? Surely, cheating death should make them even more confident in their own abilities than ever before. "Hah! Suck it, fate!" It made sense when Arantir came off as a kind of reformist movement in the wake of the repeated destruction of Heresh, but apparently he represents the norm.
*shrug*
Just a bit incongruent to me, s'all.
____________
Sultan of Stupidity
|
| |
|
|
This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
