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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted April 01, 2015 09:52 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 21:55, 01 Apr 2015.
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Sligneris said:
On a side note, please.  I know you're biased towards Erwan, but literally making assumptions about his involvement because of that is pretty pathetic. Erwan would actually primarily focus the story on the events he shaped himself - he created the universe and lore, not H6's cringeworthy plot.
absolute nonsense lol, not only has he been the creative director of the brand with veto over all story matters ever since Ubi took over, but Heroes 6 is also his baby as he personally produced it (unlike H5, except TotE, and H7)
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2015 09:55 PM |
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Waste of potential, if that's true. Strange I don't see his name high in the credits, somehow...?
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 01, 2015 09:55 PM |
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Haven are humans. Ofcourse humans are the superior race in Ashan. (If any elf or orc is mad because of my rasistic statement towards them step forward or be silent  )
That's right. Erwan is a M&M: Heroes God. His word is the law. Even logic does not stand in his way, when he created Ashan ... like any real God. Erwan does not like you? Consider yourself retconed 
Going by his moto it's easy to predict future of H7 release: Rush now! Think (of the bugs)... later...
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted April 01, 2015 10:05 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Waste of potential, if that's true. Strange I don't see his name high in the credits, somehow...?
check some interviews and media from around that time, you'll find he was very much the man in charge lol
I found a pretty amusing one here actually, pretty appropriate reading for April Fool's Day lol
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.es/portal/index.php?module=Contenidos&func=view&pid=19
Quote:
After that, we were introduced to the town transformation system which allows a hero to transform an enemy town to his own faction. Operation took some resources and was performed immediately. However Erwan assured that the system would be more complex in the final version and that definitely wouldn't be immediate.
Quote:
It was clearly stated however that there will be a town window with its own 2D animated image (just like in the Heroes games previous to 5) and their own musical theme.
Quote:
Julien Pirou, (also known as Marzhin in the community), creator of Legend of the Ancients campaigns, and the official Dark Messiah map (both for Heroes V), has been a member of Ubisoft Heroes VI development team for one year. His function is mainly level designer and he's very involved with the map editor functionality supervision. With his credentials as map creator he knows better than anyone the needs of map designer, so it's safe to say that we are on good hands. Erwan confirmed that they have the intention to release the map editor even before the game release, or at the same time in the worst case, and concious of Heroes V map editor faults (despite its great capabilities) they are aiming to make it much more user friendly. Anyway he transmitted Marzhin's impressions, who is very happy with the editor and impressed by it's ease of use and power.
Quote:
What we've seen until now is promising. If they have enough time and can get a few things working the game will be very good. I don't know if so good as Heroes II or Heroes III which is saying much... but enough to keep us entertained for a long time.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2015 10:18 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
That's right. Erwan is a M&M: Heroes God. His word is the law. Even logic does not stand in his way, when he created Ashan ... like any real God. Erwan does not like you? Consider yourself retconed
That says a lot and... quite little. There are many people who have rights to veto someone else's work, but simply don't bother - either way the blame for the work itself being terrible falls heavier on those who made it rather than on those who allowed it to pass.
Which is why I would be disappointed if Heroes 6's plot was written by Erwan - out of all, he should be the first to recognize the events of Tuidhana's secession as something important, something he should focus on.
That being said, I blame the fans for one thing - they complained too much about linear campaigns. The linear format is the best one for any kind of storytelling and they should have kept it in the series, because this is where I have to say that fans were evidently wrong.
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Verriker, the first quote is actually quite amusing... and disappointing. I like the ability to convert towns, but it was evidently way too easy to do so.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 01, 2015 10:48 PM |
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I do not like town converting at all. Town converting diminishes importance of secondary heroes and army splitting. Army splitting should be encouraged, rather, and secondary heroes should be more important.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2015 10:52 PM |
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Secondary heroes with armies usually become mere scarecrows one avoid using in an actual fight because of them being under-leveled.
Lack of town conversion make faction campaigns feel a bit anti-climatic, a notable example being Agrael recruiting a full-fledged army of elves to fight by his side in order to kill their own kin.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted April 01, 2015 10:56 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I do not like town converting at all. Town converting diminishes importance of secondary heroes and army splitting. Army splitting should be encouraged, rather, and secondary heroes should be more important.
hey come on, don't diss the Heroes 3: WoG team's original idea just because Heroes 6 failed to plagiarise it properly lol
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2015 11:00 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Sligneris said:
The linear format is the best one for any kind of storytelling.
Ridley laughs at your statement
It was more of an opinion, anyway. H6 format was terrible though, and H7 is just some stories, which I feel will be rather irrelevant to everything.
Right now, I'm looking forward only to the tale of Anastasya, mostly because I'm curious whether we'll see the War of the Broken Staff, tipped by the death of Belketh and the utter destruction of Necromancers by Maahir and other wizards.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 01, 2015 11:09 PM |
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Sligneris said:
It was more of an opinion, anyway. H6 format was terrible though, and H7 is just some stories, which I feel will be rather irrelevant to everything.
Right now, I'm looking forward only to the tale of Anastasya, mostly because I'm curious whether we'll see the War of the Broken Staff, tipped by the death of Belketh and the utter destruction of Necromancers by Maahir and other wizards.
i deleted that comment since it didn't really prove my point at all ^^
while the game i non-linear and it still has on of the best told stories in video game history, the story itself isn't really non-linear so i'm not sure it really proves anything. you should totally play it though. so good  
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 02, 2015 12:46 AM |
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Sligneris said:
Secondary heroes with armies usually become mere scarecrows one avoid using in an actual fight because of them being under-leveled.
Lack of town conversion make faction campaigns feel a bit anti-climatic, a notable example being Agrael recruiting a full-fledged army of elves to fight by his side in order to kill their own kin.
This was sort of why I could accept the Heroes 4 stories, because although they almost always were civil wars, that meant that you could always end with a powerful force of your own faction by then end, which although got stale after so many, it at least allowed one to use all of the units from the town, due to the choices of tiers 2, 3, and 4.
Town conversion could work... but H6 did not implement that right in the slightest. Now with the choice of champions, you'd think they could bring in the option of "dismantling" buildings, and then eventually allow for dismantling of all buildings that aren't "core" to towns (castle, marketplace, tavern, etc.) and eventually convert from there... but, nope. H6 decided that with the click of a button and in one day, you could turn a town producing a whole bunch of dead things into a town that produced sacred water dragons and all the other water spirits overnight.
How does WoG work, in town conversion?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 02, 2015 12:51 AM |
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Protolisk said:
How does WoG work, in town conversion?
pretty much how you proposed except you only needed to raze to "village hall" and then wait a week and then choose the new (undeveloped) town based on your heroes faction (unless they had a specialty). personally i found it was a bit too costly.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted April 02, 2015 04:38 AM |
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Again we go with this "Erwan the Almighty"...
I think he will be quite amused to read how you perceive him. I think he doesn't even dream about having this kind of power you speak of ^_^
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 02, 2015 04:51 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
Again we go with this "Erwan the Almighty"...
I think he will be quite amused to read how you perceive him. He doesn't even dream about having this kind of power you speak of ^_^
Sandro400 confirmed Erwan. How else does he know his inner thoughts?
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted April 02, 2015 05:05 AM |
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Protolisk said:
Sandro400 confirmed Erwan. How else does he know his inner thoughts?
Is it still April 1st in your country? Nice joke.
I thought I made it clear that was my opinion, but I'll edit it to make that more clear.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted April 02, 2015 08:27 AM |
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town converting means less variety- afer few weeks there will be two factions or even one with same units, no mixing armies, counting or so- just quantity
I prefer to enjoy all factions if possible on the same map or at least as much as possible
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 02, 2015 08:36 AM |
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JotunLogi said:
town converting means less variety- afer few weeks there will be two factions or even one with same units, no mixing armies, counting or so- just quantity
I prefer to enjoy all factions if possible on the same map or at least as much as possible
no town-conversion could potentially give an edge to some player if their faction has more towns on the map. i get that that somewhat of a feature in heroes (do what you can with what you have) and that balancing the adventure map shouldn't be a primary (or even secondary) concern but it something that has made some of my games less enjoyable in the past (once had a game where my enemy had like 7(!) towns of her faction on the map while i had 1). i feel if implemented correctly, town-conversion would be great. kinda like WoG but a tad more usable.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 02, 2015 09:01 AM |
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verriker said:
hey come on, don't diss the Heroes 3: WoG team's original idea just because Heroes 6 failed to plagiarise it properly lol
With all respect to WoG team, I don't like town conversation. They produced one hell of a mod, but I was never a fan of converting town. It's just my personal preference. I would accept town conversation only, if army caps were introduced in one form or another.
While, multiplayer is fine on small maps where there's only couple of towns on map, in single player, campaign, but even in long multiplayer / LAN games, the game allways transforms in 2 "doomstacks" playing town-tag all over the map. This was to extent true in H5 and H3, but was realy present in H6, where town conversations were present. Ofcourse town portal helped aswell. I hate that. It made campaigns tedious to the point I gave up on them.
I know town conversation is here to remove an important unfairness in large games, with random factions. That is, that sometimes there can be multiple (for example) Haven towns on a map, and a guy who conquers them has access to bigger army, than the guy with various towns. But personly I'm prepared to swallow that, since in multiplayer I tend to play small 2-3 town maps, while in single playeer it dosen't matter much.
Ofc. Obvious solution would be to introduce army caps + town conversation .... but noone is a fan of that.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted April 02, 2015 09:16 AM |
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Town conversion was one of the features I most despised in Heroes 6, but it alone didn't do all the bad impression in my mind (and left it etched there for God only knows how long). Coupled with that creature pooling and town portaling to and fro, I couldn't hardly believe how messy this system was.
The first 1 hour of gameplay, I was even having fun. 30 minutes later, I was bored and then critically checking the game features I was so long expectantly waiting which turned out to be ... hum <<insert the awfullest thing you can think of in the shape of a word here>>.
I'm not adamantly against converting towns. It must be implemented properly, very restrictively, taking into considerations many elements rather than only 'time' and 'resources'. Something on the lines of considering terrain properties and the possibility that it cannot be fully developed as the native starting town.
A town of the same faction gives a huge synergistic advantage, whilst lacks in diversity when mixing other units from another faction (which is what I prefer holistically speaking). Not having that in H7 seemed like a good idea. Better not meddling with implementation of something that had so much bad criticism in first place. Wonder why skill system and level cap is still so crappy.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted April 02, 2015 09:23 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I do not like town converting at all. Town converting diminishes importance of secondary heroes and army splitting. Army splitting should be encouraged, rather, and secondary heroes should be more important.
I've practiced enough army-splitting in campaigns and scenario's. Usually I have one hero roaming about with a decent army, but when the enemy comes at you with more than one hero it's often hard to intercept all of them. That's when I decide to leave a portion of my main hero's army in the care of secondary one, who is then tasked with extra flyswatting. It only works of the main hero's army is large enough, though.
Town conversion in H6 may have been easy since it cost only resources (but the more developed a town is, the more resources you have to pay), but I liked it. At least now you don't have to worry anymore that you won't find any towns that are not of your faction, making army-expansion slow and based only on your own fortifications, external dwellings etc. Combined with +1 growth when ugprading an in-town dwelling, converting towns causes the creature pool to climb skyhigh. A drawback here is that you often lack resources to buy all available creatures. In that case I mostly focus on the creatures I could use best (ranged, or based on abilities).
It also adds to the 'Empire-feel'. At least everything you conquer belongs to one faction, and not many. It was a one time feature, now I have to get used to the old ways again in H7.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
