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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 07:14 PM |
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I personally call it "$h!twheel"
Heroes are shaped from the start, we know how they are effective, their limits, what ahould be maxed....
What is more, random skills will not be good (just not effective) and it cannot be like in hoMM 5 ;/
At least access to most powerful spells is granted after investing in magic school... but what kind of spells will player get? I miss good old wisdom....
Also, most skills are not impressive.... (if they do not change them)
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted April 09, 2015 07:17 PM |
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For now as I see it from an article, this is a very simple skillwheel and It's not the right way to my mind. I don't see any development from H5 skillwheel (which was very complicated and messy, but interesting one). Here's just I can see a skill TREE. Because there are no relations between different skills. So you can choose any and they won't correlate with each other, allowing you to gain some special ability. So it's just a wide skill tree to my mind which has been forced into a wheel. I wish to be wrong with this statement.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 09, 2015 07:18 PM |
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Is it too late to suggest moving the discussion here? 
Here all will be lost withing weeks days, drowned by dozens of pages of whatever people want to say.
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Neovius
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 07:22 PM |
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Avonu said:
Oh... and cherry on the cake - Heroes specializations.
What's wrong with that? Those were always present in every Heroes game (maybe not, I don't remember 1, 2 and 4)
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted April 09, 2015 07:24 PM |
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sigh, it's times like these I actually miss Nival lol
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 07:24 PM |
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Avonu said:
Even worse, heroes now have fixed classes - so for example I can't play Asad as Alchemist - he always will be Blademage.
This is so stupid, predetermined heroes classes are awful idea, it kills replayability from the beginning, I would like the option to choose hero portrait, than if he is might or magic hero and hero class, but nooo they had to create the backstory for every hero 
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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 07:25 PM |
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Skillwheel theorycraft is just some ideas about skillwheel, how it can look and should look, more fan fiction  Now we know a bit more
As far as I know, there is level limit- how many skills can hero ultimately have (without additional events)
Also I am a bit negative about about magic cause it is easy to not get the spell that is needed- and with such skillwheel with few magic schools to invest, even for magic hero... a bit shame limit.
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted April 09, 2015 07:32 PM |
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Atleast previously in H5 you had to make a bet on getting the right spells if you got offered a rare magic school with the reward being that you could surprise the enemy.
Now that is gone and basically upgrading magic skills is no more exciting/rewarding that building a building in town.
You got the lvl5 spell you wanted? Guess which skill you are gooing to take next. You didn't get it? No point in leveling up the skill at all at that point.
Boring.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 07:37 PM |
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fuChris said:
Atleast previously in H5 you had to make a bet on getting the right spells if you got offered a rare magic school with the reward being that you could surprise the enemy.
Now that is gone and basically upgrading magic skills is no more exciting/rewarding that building a building in town.
You got the lvl5 spell you wanted? Guess which skill you are gooing to take next. You didn't get it? No point in leveling up the skill at all at that point.
Boring.
... what?
As far as I can tell, this system is just like H5's for spells. Upgrading the skill rank increases the tiers of spells you can learn.
Abilities can increase spells power. You know, like how "Master of Wrath" increased Righteous Might and Haste? Or how Ignite made fire spells pretty awesome?
The way they describe it sounds the same exact way. Spells can gain extra power with abilities. Just like H5.
Edit: unless you mean that the skill that you decide to unlock is determined by the spell you see in the magic guild. Which to me sounds... pretty much like H5? You could bet before hand, or wait, but have to build up to that skill rank to learn the spell.
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Neovius
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 07:40 PM |
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Protolisk said:
... what?
He means that if you won't get your favourite spells in the mage guild, then there's no reason to level up that magic school.
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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 07:47 PM |
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The best art is "work in progress", it has never looked so cool.
To be fair, Dev knows that we do not like the wheel and skills, same specialization. I think that ultimately the most powerful skills should be much more powerful and specialization much more impressive, making a hero a real badass 
Also good to see that the skillwheel will change its aesthetics, the best would be colours for each part of wheel like in HoMM 4 (where life s vilet, chaos red etc.). Maybe even a bit too colorful but way easer to notice and intuitive
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted April 09, 2015 08:29 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 20:39, 09 Apr 2015.
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Great... just great...
Quote:
Random skills
As you may know, we also provide an optional random skill system. It is close to Heroes V's system, and provides the player with a small number of choices each time his hero levels up, but still within the structure of the Heroes VII skillwheel.
Why I do have a feeling it would be done something like this: when you level up, you would choose some of skills and abilieties but only from hero skillwheel and not from overall available skills in game (read: from all 10+ skills and not only from your hero 10 skills)?
You won't do that developers, will you?
Who the hell I want to fool... of course you will do that - it's the easiest way to do "random" skill wheel.
*sigh*
I really want to be wrong about this. Really.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 09, 2015 08:38 PM |
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You're not alone, Avonu
Let me hug you *hugs*
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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 08:53 PM |
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ERwan Le Breton himself has said on fanday event wwhy there have been made changes to skillwheel- he said that neither HoMM 3 nor HoMM 5 system (I assume that HoMM 4 would also qualify- but this is only my thought, he, as far as I remember, has not said anything about hoMM 4) is perfect and there have been complaints about them.
Skill system in M&M: Heroes 6 was also not succesful. He has mentioned that none system is perfect, there is always some negative feedback. That is the reason why they do not stick to HoMM 3 or HoMM 5 solution and change skillwheel...
But I do not understand some things- why not just evolution of that, eliminating bad things, trying just to add new stuff instead changing everything? There are more such questions but I cannot find answer that would satisfy me...
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 09, 2015 09:06 PM |
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JotunLogi said:
ERwan Le Breton himself has said on fanday event wwhy there have been made changes to skillwheel- he said that neither HoMM 3 nor HoMM 5 system (I assume that HoMM 4 would also qualify- but this is only my thought, he, as far as I remember, has not said anything about hoMM 4) is perfect and there have been complaints about them.
Sure both H3 & H5 skill systems had their flaws, but unlike H6, the basis were solid. H4 as well. H6? I don't think so.
H3 mostly suffered from simplicity (but so was most the of the game at that times) and big disparity between skills (would you pick learning/eagle eye/scouting when you could avoid them? I thought so!). A better balance between skills would have make it better.
H4 system was an improvement over H3, but it was too rigid, there were no choices between skills, only which skill & related subskills you wanted to develop (except for fkning combat because HEROES IN BATTLEFIELD LOL ).
H5 offered a lot of possibilities in the form of builds, but atrocious RNG values (2% logistic, damn you Nival! ) and lack of representation in-game hurt the game so much. Abilities pre-requisites were sometimes too much restrictive, I'll admit. That could have been solved by either increasing the number of 'points' you can invest on perks/skill OR reduce the amount of pre-requisites OR making pre-requisites work on a tier level instead of a perk in particular.
They just went with H6 system ffs, now I want the world to be burnt to ashes 
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 09:13 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
You're not alone, Avonu
Let me hug you *hugs*
Such a nice post Storm-Giant 
Both of you get a hug from me too.
JotunLogi said:
There are more such questions but I cannot find answer that would satisfy me...
I'm sure you will wind the answers you are looking for. Dont worry. Also, have a hug 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 09, 2015 09:26 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 21:27, 09 Apr 2015.
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i don't see the problem with the h7 skillsystem
it seems pretty close to h5 but tiered perks and more of them without any restrictions on how many per skill you can have. pretty great improvement with a lot of of potential depth. too many differences between the different wheels, sure, but the basic system seems like the best one to date. i just hope the randomization won't suck.
also, HUGS! HUGS FOR EVERYPONY!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 09, 2015 09:42 PM |
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JotunLogi said:
ERwan Le Breton himself has said on fanday event wwhy there have been made changes to skillwheel- he said that neither HoMM 3 nor HoMM 5 system (I assume that HoMM 4 would also qualify- but this is only my thought, he, as far as I remember, has not said anything about hoMM 4) is perfect and there have been complaints about them.
Skill system in M&M: Heroes 6 was also not succesful. He has mentioned that none system is perfect, there is always some negative feedback. That is the reason why they do not stick to HoMM 3 or HoMM 5 solution and change skillwheel...
So he said that, did he? Well, just goes to emphasize my impression of his understanding of the game.
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What will happen now?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 09, 2015 09:44 PM |
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^All hail alci 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 09, 2015 09:46 PM |
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
