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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted April 28, 2015 01:08 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 13:20, 28 Apr 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Ok for the spells - have all 7 magic schools available in all factions, this way good luck getting any spells to work with.
First of all, even in Heroes 6 magic heroes have access to max 5 magic schools (excluding Orcs with 6 magic schools). So there are always at least 2 magic schools excluded from your faction.
Second, from what I heard, Magic Guild can specialize in Magic Schools.
Third, I don't think that even Wizards, who according to lore are master of all magic, would have access to more then 3 magic schools. Developers are so fixed about balance, that a hero having more then 3 magic skills would be harm for it - after all a hero can learn magic, might and neutral skills, so (s)he need a room to learn Luck, Leadership or Defense too.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 01:42 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Ok for the spells - have all 7 magic schools available in all factions, this way good luck getting any spells to work with. Magic heroes would be useless. But that's 7 magic schools problem, and JJ explains it aswell. 2 schools per faction is only way to make it managable.
EDIT: sure in H3 university worked like that, but in H7 it could be as I proposed ... it's still outside influence.
Umm... WHAT? No, sorry, on the contrary.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 01:49 PM |
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still. 7 schools is too many. even 5 schools are too many. It's a problem if you decide to specialize in air magic, then only few tier 1 spells are air spells. H5 was better in this regard. Having 2 schools per faction is only sure solution, to not have might heroes much more viable.
Ofcourse best would be to not have classes and have 4 schools or magic or so. But this would also mean there's no diference between Haven hero or Dungeon hero. Both can have exact same skills and exact same magic spells.
JJ, then I misunderstood you. Tell me then how is having all 7 schools in all factions managable? - ofcourse your solution is not to have 7 schools at all, or for them not to be random ... but we have'em, and they are random
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted April 28, 2015 01:54 PM |
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You continue posting faster than I eat popcorn ^^
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted April 28, 2015 02:02 PM |
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For those who pre-order it, they'll have secured beta-testing. What % of beta-testing people will that be, I wonder? I can hardly believe that people who are not enjoying this show so far will try beta-testing, so, in a sense, the beta-testing might be lead only by those who approve of almost everything. I don't sense much good in that.
What are your views on that?
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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cori14
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:04 PM |
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Hermes said:
1 Game not successful and Ubi sells the franchise - to some one like Paradox who will pepper the next game with thousands of DLCs or to someone like Deep Silver who will just remak the game and release it for consoles without any communication with da base at all.
2It pains me to see how much more civil, concise and supporting Bioware community is.
Have a look at its forums - there are still many bugs in the game and it's multiplayer has not received any updates in 6 months now(although promised). The development is all under NDA and not open at all and fans are still supporting the devs and hope that they deliver. All because the Game - DAI - is great regardless of consolisation and removal f many features.
1 I think Paradox would be a perfect candidate for making Heroes. They are making very good and deep strategy games. They aren't making it to the whole gamer society, they make their games to the specific audience, which I think is the good way to make specific genres.
2 After ME3, I have my doubts about Bioware, and after DAI which had a very good story and overall good game, but concept of MMOing in a single player game with stupid, boring fetch quests made me furious. I think the fanbase changed at Bioware... the old kotor, neverwinter and even dragon age origins fans left a few years ago from them, letting the new generation take over which results in Bioware praising.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:16 PM |
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I do enjoy the show and would like it to continue in the same direction, however trust me Panda, I will review the beta objectively, each feature separately and the gameplay overall. I will also compare it to Heroes 5 and 6, once again, objectively.
P.s. Hmm who was saying something negative about bioware franchises? 👹
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 28, 2015 02:17 PM |
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Hermes said:
I will review the beta objectively
that's impossible.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:25 PM |
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:28 PM |
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cori14 said:
Hermes said:
1 I think Paradox would be a perfect candidate for making Heroes. They are making very good and deep strategy games. They aren't making it to the whole gamer society, they make their games to the specific audience, which I think is the good way to make specific genres.
2 After ME3, I have my doubts about Bioware, and after DAI which had a very good story and overall good game, but concept of MMOing in a single player game with stupid, boring fetch quests made me furious. I think the fanbase changed at Bioware... the old kotor, neverwinter and even dragon age origins fans left a few years ago from them, letting the new generation take over which results in Bioware praising.
1. So I guess you would love an in-game store with high prices on stuff like "spell packs", sold for high prices and no sales? And lack of patches and support down the road? I do agree that their games are good but dlc politic is not.
2. Bioware made ones of the best games I ever played, one being Mass Effect 2/3 and other Dragon Age Inquisition. And I could never get into early DA games so they won me over completely with Inquisition. I don't see what's so bad about their fan base changing - they as making great sales and making games people truly enjoy. Besides there are some people who want Bioware to return to their early designs - but they don't spam hashtags and make revolutions on the forums do they.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:30 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
.. not listen to feedback and telling your fans they are ungrateful snows because they complain
Still waiting on you kiruy to clarify on this.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 28, 2015 02:30 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 14:49, 28 Apr 2015.
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Stevie said:
Analysis is not impossible.
no one said that.
EDIT:
Minion said:
Still waiting on you kiruy to clarify on this.
well, first of all there's everything in this article.
Pretty much everything in the Skill wheel article also says "we can't say snow you so we won't say snow you but that's what we mean". read between the lines: they're outright stating that the fans are lying and that their opinions don't matter. This is in the blog said to be designed in order to help fans influence the development which has been proven not to be the case.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted April 28, 2015 02:38 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 14:40, 28 Apr 2015.
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PandaTar said:
For those who pre-order it, they'll have secured beta-testing. What % of beta-testing people will that be, I wonder? I can hardly believe that people who are not enjoying this show so far will try beta-testing, so, in a sense, the beta-testing might be lead only by those who approve of almost everything. I don't sense much good in that.
What are your views on that?
It would be very surprising for me if beta-tests will only be available to people who pre-order the game. Codes for beta for Heroes VI and M&M X (as far as I remember) were given away in ridiculous amounts by various gaming sites. Probably the same situation will happen with Heroes VII.
@Stevie: kiryu meant that objective reviews are impossible. Review is such a piece of writing that is subjective in its core.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 28, 2015 02:43 PM |
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I have a feeling a part of the developers are frustrated players who didn’t understand how the skill system works in Heroes and they now have the support of a minority of players who didn’t get it either but as they feel they are wrong they now wish for the game development not to be in touch with the fan base anymore.
It is to me now clearer than ever when JJ was saying random implementation would not be possible with 7 schools of magic etc, it will IMO result in a failure of the implementation of random skill system, and the worst part is, future generation of players will think this system is stupid, when the truth is that it will most likely result to be stupid because of a profound misunderstanding of the game designers about the skill system in Heroes.
Julien Benson said:
Each iteration brought better graphics and new armies but the core mechanics remained the same.
Now this is straight out lying. Core mechanics were already altered in the fourth iteration with the heroes on battlefield, and after a chat with Pandatar I tend to think the idea could have been very cool if it hasn’t been poorly implemented, thanks to 3DO who rushed the release, just as Ubi is rushing Heroes 7.
In the sixth iteration -that atrocity which dares wear the Heroes name, the horrid, blasphemous and heretic non-random skill system is introduced. Attracting players of pure RPGs who probably never ever heard of Heroes before (or were part of this minority disliking random = disliking a part of the very essence of Heroes, IMO).
Heroes has always not only been a turned-based strategy game, but also a game with probabilities (that “dice roll” effect) and the RPG element has always been more of another flavor than anything else. In Heroes, you DON’T necessarily get your perfect hero by planning in advance. What WAS imo so brilliant in the gameplay of Heroes is that not everything is always going as planned thus you have to adapt, and be clever. At war, I think things can get messed up and not necessarily go according to the plan, and this is where you see the difference between a brilliant strategist and someone from la-la-land.
Dismissing the random element in Heroes is a blasphemy and imo Ubilimb is signing the death of one of the very core aspects of the game.
Erwan le Breton said:
We totally accept the fan feedback when it comes to making the experience better for them in terms of playstyle, and having a Heroes that's as close as possible to the original formula.
Sure you do, this is why the overwhelming amount of negative feedback considering one of the core mechanics of the game is not only being ignored, but completely dismissed.
Maybe some people should be reminded that the only reason for Ubilimb to go Opendev is obviously because of the extreme negative feedback Heroes 6 received, and that they apparently try to set things straight. My foot.
Such a pity the fans know better than the devs. Even more of a pity the devs cannot have the humility to reconsider their position when is highly criticized by a huge majority of the dedicated, passionate fan base and potential customers.
I have came to a point where I wish this franchise to die, at least to save its name to be spoiled continuously by incompetents!
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gourley4p
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:48 PM |
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Avirosb said:
gourley4p said:
They truly thought that was the fun part of the game, and not the sense of wonder with experiencing something groundbreaking.
But what's that have to do with H7?
My apologies if I was obtuse there. I should have connected all of the dots. Having to save my game in Heroes V prior to a level up or before visiting a skill hut and having to reload to make sure I get useful skills is not in any way depth or strategy. It is wasted time. Yet, I see people romanticizing it as the apex of strategy gaming.
Likewise, the 3D towns in Heroes V are next to useless for the game play. I admired them once when they first launched. Afterward, it was straight to the build or recruit buttons and back out to the map, where the real game is. Again, people act as if a lack of 3D towns makes the game incomplete.
Again, I don't mean to say that it is wrong to prefer those gameplay elements. I merely believe it is misguided to place in them the level of importance seen here. Additionally, I would like to see some tolerance for people who are satisfied with the current state of the game as described, less venom in the discussion in general, and a couple more of those rainbows posted earlier.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 28, 2015 02:50 PM |
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gourley4p said:
Having to save my game in Heroes V prior to a level up or before visiting a skill hut and having to reload to make sure I get useful skills is not in any way depth or strategy.
Make option Yes/No. Tadaaa problem solved.
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gourley4p
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:56 PM |
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Galaad said:
In the sixth iteration -that atrocity which dares wear the Heroes name, the horrid, blasphemous and heretic non-random skill system is introduced. Attracting players of pure RPGs who probably never ever heard of Heroes before (or were part of this minority disliking random = disliking a part of the very essence of Heroes, IMO).
Heroes has always not only been a turned-based strategy game, but also a game with probabilities (that “dice roll” effect) and the RPG element has always been more of another flavor than anything else. In Heroes, you DON’T necessarily get your perfect hero by planning in advance. What WAS imo so brilliant in the gameplay of Heroes is that not everything is always going as planned thus you have to adapt, and be clever. At war, I think things can get messed up and not necessarily go according to the plan, and this is where you see the difference between a brilliant strategist and someone from la-la-land.
Dismissing the random element in Heroes is a blasphemy and imo Ubilimb is signing the death of one of the very core aspects of the game.
This is exactly the type of hyberbolic romanticism I am talking about in my posts. If you factor in the save and reload level ups (unless you played a self-imposed "iron man" mode), Heroes VII as described offers the exact same level of randomization as previous entries. The game offers a selection of available skills for the hero class, and you pick. It sounds exactly the same to me.
However, Galaad, you have played the game. Please explain how the current randomization option--if you had the chance to test it--differs from reloading your Raelag save one more time to get the skill you need to unlock the Ultimate.
Moreover, I would challenge your notion that complete random dice rolls for character development was ever the charm of Heroes. More often for me, it was the annoying part. Oh, I didn't mind the damage range on creatures. That is what made Bless and Weakness spells cool. I didn't mind the randomness of loot. But when it came to my heroes, I wanted to have more control. So far, Heroes VII seems to offer the perfect balance in that people who want the element of chance in their leveling can have it while I can build as I please reliably.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 28, 2015 02:58 PM |
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Sure we all have our opinion. Too bad the devs aim for the unpopular one during an open dev process.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 03:27 PM |
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@kiruy. I see, well you keep on reading between the lines then.
Maybe the blog wasn't meant to act as "fans will have the final say in every single decision we make". You must have read THAT between the lines as well 
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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cori14
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 03:32 PM |
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Hermes said:
1. So I guess you would love an in-game store with high prices on stuff like "spell packs", sold for high prices and no sales? And lack of patches and support down the road? I do agree that their games are good but dlc politic is not.
2. Bioware made ones of the best games I ever played, one being Mass Effect 2/3 and other Dragon Age Inquisition. And I could never get into early DA games so they won me over completely with Inquisition. I don't see what's so bad about their fan base changing - they as making great sales and making games people truly enjoy. Besides there are some people who want Bioware to return to their early designs - but they don't spam hashtags and make revolutions on the forums do they.
1. I know they love those little DLCs, but the games they put out are complete. The DLCs are not essential, there's so much variety without the DLCs that i think it's not a problem, BUT I have to say I never really delved into their games, they consume too much time, but I have to say they are well put together, and I like the concept. And for the patches, If I'm correct they support thair games for years, am I not?
2. I don't want to go offtopic here, so I'll just say that ME2 is a great game, but ME3's ending f*cked everything up imo. DAI was good as a whole, but the idiotic side quests and some other problems made the game really flawed, and I can't believe it won the GOTY last year. I have to note that I was very happy with the game but it has big flaws which if had been improved before release could have made the game a great RPG for years to come, but instead they threw out much things which were great in their older games and dumbed it down, just like Heroes6-7 is doing with the series.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
