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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:07 PM |
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Hermes said:
1. Magic heroes won't be able to level those abilities to GM rank. Likely only to Expert or at the most Master.
2. This is interesting, have to actually think about that.. May be there is a way to make those guerrilla tactics useful? Hmm..
1. But why does Necro magic heroes have offense and defense as one of their three main skills then? I thought that the three main skills were the ones that you can get the grandmaster ability. Then what are the main skills for?   
2. Yeah there is no use for that skill  You are better off with some other skill that actually might make you the winner. Picking amnesty is like preparing for defeat without even trying Perfect choice for those pessimistic hero builds though
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:10 PM |
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The_Green_drag said:
Wow they actually kept it. Preemptive strike for the defense skill. A whole new ability for all your units. I absolutely hate the concept of units getting new abilities through hero level ups. This sucks.
I love it I must disagree on this one with you ... sorry. Preemtive strike + Rightfil justice combo 
I think como-ing skills as a replacement for cross skill prerequisites is the way to go with RANDOM system. This way, you can get Rightfull Justice, for example just fine ... not requiering preemtive strike first, but preemptive strike makes it more powerful. That's a good thing (much better than if it would be, that preemptive strike REQUIRES rightfull justice for eg.). I have a hunch tho, that it's unintentional, as there could be more of this sort of skills combos, so Ubi is passing this one up... or maybe not, I'm more eager to see the rest of skills now.
* On non random system, it would be too powerfull, as you would get combos every time, not to mention it would kill replayability ... just like ultimate skills would in non-random setting - you would ALWAYS get them.
The rest of the skills? Let's see:
- Archery: Interasting. It looks like there will be ranged penalty by deafult in H7 + there will be cover system. This will make archers weak, and this skill kinda ... a MUST HAVE. Unless there's like one archer in your army. This skill's power will be determined by how much is actual ranged penalty. If there's 50% penalty, then this will be powerfull skill. If penalty is 25% it will be much better I think. Buuuut It comes down to lot of things so, this one can go either way - it can become cool skill, or it can become either OP or UP.
- Homeland: Another skill ... or one of skills that will combo with Suzerain, which makes Suzerain itself nice, as it's realy situational. You won't want it on non-goverment heroes, as it'll not do much ... or maybe you do, since "effects cannot be applied multiple times to the same town" line suggests, Suzerain can potentialy trigger off of abilities from your other governor heroes ... I hope not tho. Volunteers is also combos with it ...
- Let's see ... Necessary Alliance. I think, I will take this one 100% time if I will develop Diplomacy on my main hero. It's skill you want, as you can mix, diferent towns, which also suggests mixing creatures will be a thing - mybe I own Stronghold and Haven, and can create ultimate lineup with this skill ... who knows. Maybe I have Archery also, and hoard all archers in one army to get most bang out of it ... with no penalty. A nice skill. Not interasting in itslef, but it has nice implications. If only game itself will be good enough to work them.
- Other skills are nothing out of the ordinary. Some are good, some are meh, a lot are dependant on numbers, so ... unless we know how much that "X" is, it's hard to tell. Golden-Tongued seems classic, Perfect offence and perfect defence are ok-ish ... powerfull no doubt ofc.
I must say so far it looks promising, but only time will tell if it will hold-up. There's so many variables that only after game is released it will be realy known if skill system as a whole is good ... or bad.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 09:12 PM |
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Hermes Funny that I myself happen to disagree with some of the opinions from the members you mentioned.
Look, you guys are happy with what Heroes has become, it is your perfect right, but bashing on other members who actually think the franchise is being mistreated will lead nowhere. Every one has a right to speak his mind here, and I am growing sick and tired of people who are being judgmental on others without providing a slice of argumentation.
Please refrain to "add" whatever fallacy crosses your mind next time I post something.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:13 PM |
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Galaad said:
I perfectly got it that you couldn't care less about the opinions from long time fans of the series who love the games you didn't even play.
Please, would you mind tuning down that tone?
Perhaps I would care about the "long-time fans", if their input was actually of any worth. Right now it seems to be only "hurr, everything must be ugly" and usually it's mostly constantly bashing the franchise's brand manager.
If that's as far as your "love for the series" goes, then everyone would really do without it.
Right now, you guys just sit very long on a random sofa and on that basis you expect that the sofa factory should do everything in line with your expectation and demands while producing new sofas. That's ridiculous, but who cares about that, right? That's how things should be, because you, the experts of world construction, design and story writing say so.
Really, all I see in the old vampire designs is a flaw that thankfully got fixed. They were terribly designed in NWC's world - vampires are not some overgrown pigs with fangs, they are formidable and charismatic, they keep their eternal youth by feeding off others' life essence. What do you mean, vampires aren't young and beautiful? Then go ahead, check the Wikipedia article - the first image is a work of art titled "The Vampire". What does it show? But I suppose it does not matter - the true fans' beliefs are more important than the concept's core, existing for two centuries. So yeah, instead do repeat to us how Necro heroes should be, we never heard about that before, lol.
I just dislike this self-entitlement, consensus achieved by ignoring rebuttals. You believe you are right in everything, even if someone corrects you and that your opinion is somehow inexplicably fact.
So yes, I will mind tuning down my tone, because attitude of that fanbase is pathetic, and somehow I'm still foolish enough to try and talk some sense into it.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 09:17 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Really, the old vampire designs were a flaw that thankfully got fixed. They were terribly designed in NWC's world
I consider this to be offensive, both to the series and to the fans.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:20 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 21:24, 05 May 2015.
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i agree with sligneris on beutiful vampire thing, there are ghouls and other stuffs to get ugly, a young female vampire can be beautiful, its one of the few for undeads that can be beutiful. lets not waste it and turn all undeads to all-ugly. from what i see at necro hall of heroes article, they made a good balance in this matter. necro heroes are... ugly, beutiful, young, old, scary, otherworldly, and hopefully rotten. i want diversity and balance. so this is pretty much good for me.
Quote:
my comment at mmh7 related to latest article:
My humble opinions towards article:
You should consider options towards relocation of some ability ranks after balance testing: "Archery" for instence.
Diplomacy tree, with "Necessarry Allience" hits the mark from my given feedback about "units analyises" from latest articles, really glad to see my points are heard.
Alertness may need buff.
"Amnesty" does make contribute to variety, but doesnt seem usefull to invest in, it needs to be replaced with a new ability.
Any RMG info btw?
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:21 PM |
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Yes, I know that every statement which does not consider everything NWC ever created to be a flawless masterpiece is offensive.
Obviously, the fact that you say that, while Ashan, its creator, its lore, its concept and its characters are constantly and endlessly bashed, it's not a double standard at all, no sire!
But when I say that something NWC did was badly made, it's considered an insult and a heresy. That hypocrisy is really disgusting.
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The_Green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:26 PM |
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I just think the skill is incredibly overpowered. Even if I was okay with unit gaining skills through hero levels, preemptive strike is just ridiculous. It's not even a chance, it doesn't only last one or two rounds, it doesn't require any situation (like he death of a friendly stack), it's just a straight up buff that sounds more important than the grandmaster ability.
It was the underlining ability of the Minotaur lol, and I remember it having the same ability in h7 
How are weaker, fast units suppose to be useful against such a skill? They have to suffer losses in order to attack which makes the sit back and shoot strategy much more appealing.
I think back to where all the fliers went in h7 and why are there are elite shooters everywhere. It's cause a faction wouldn't survive without them (or with them, in the case of fliers) thanks to these skils.
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DierdreOfAmber
Hired Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:27 PM |
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The problem is not beautiful vampiressess. It's that 90% of ALL Necromancers in Ashan are vampires, and not the old, power-hungry, ugly(both physically and morally) liches.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:29 PM |
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As far as Heroes VII goes, vampires are exactly 25%.
And no, I'm not counting Zoltan - because he definitely is ugly.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 05, 2015 09:30 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 21:31, 05 May 2015.
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Sligneris said:
Well no, screw you. I could not care less how you guys believe things "should be"
Sligneris said:
but you of course never listen.
Sligneris said:
I would care about the "long-time fans", if their input was actually of any worth. Right now it seems to be only "hurr, everything must be ugly"
Sligneris said:
You believe you are right in everything, even if someone corrects you and that your opinion is somehow inexplicably fact.
Sligneris said:
So yes, I will mind tuning down my tone, because attitude of that fanbase is pathetic
Sligneris said:
Yes, I know that every statement which does not consider everything NWC ever created to be a flawless masterpiece is offensive.
Sligneris said:
when I say that something NWC did was badly made, it's considered an insult and a heresy. That hypocrisy is really disgusting.
why so angry? chill down the salt dude, no need to white knight Erwin to the extent of attacking people lol
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 09:32 PM |
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Sligneris
The difference is that NWC with JVC CREATED this awesome series. And I consider it my perfect right to contest the decisions from the people who bought the rights, constantly violating the IP to my eyes.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:33 PM |
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Edited by TD at 21:36, 05 May 2015.
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Well I'd personally prefer undeads in general to be decayed, rotten and grim. Centuries of battles should have left them scarred and damaged. The younger vampire is, the less damage there should be. While they do have regenerative powers it wouldn't make them without scars and signs of damage. Also there should be good variety of different kinds of heroes IMO(which looks good so far for necro). I really hope to see zombi(es), liches and such in the heroes also(and maybe different races like elves/dwarves, heck maybe even some undead demon lord[wishful thinking]).
To me it feels like devs go for the pretty faces just coz the game is targeting quite young audience(Hence PEGI 12) so necro is made in such mild manner like in tv thus not scary(but beautiful&young instead). When I think of necromancer, pretty people are not what comes to mind for me. I really hope to see great variability between heroes and factions, be that age, race, condition, beauty/uglyness. For example to necro it should have more scars, torn/rotting flesh, disfiguration and all kinds of things that relate to death and long age. This is of course just my personal view on things, but I do believe factions should reflect on what kind of heroes they have and what they represent on general level. Having an exception like beautiful vampire is fine, but most heroes shouldn't be that way or it's not really an exception IMO.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:35 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 21:56, 05 May 2015.
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calm down people, try to see each others perspective, balance is always the best option to understand things. big picture is more important then personal preferances.
if i were a male vampire, i wouldnt care my looks, since i have no pathetic worldy passions like being handsome  ya know im not gonna chase girls or somethin like that... and anyway, this is where i agree with TD, more the age goes more the scars appear on that beautiful vampire face, its a small detail for many undeads.
and sligneris, you are clearly missing something here with your last post: this beuty definition doesnt mean "sexy", zoltan has a silky skin, a clear no scared human face so it counts as "the beutiful" type.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 09:37 PM |
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cleglaw said:
calm down people, try to see each others perspective, balance is always the best option to understand things. big picture is more important then personal preferances.
I agree. But I am not speaking about personal preference here, only about the huge DISRESPECT from Ubisoft, not only to the series, but also to the fan base.
I've explained my POV countless times in many places of the forum and all I ask now is for people to avoid quarreling others for posting their opinions.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:37 PM |
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DierdreOfAmber said:
The problem is not beautiful vampiressess. It's that 90% of ALL Necromancers in Ashan are vampires, and not the old, power-hungry, ugly(both physically and morally) liches.
Totally agree with this! And the reason why it is this way - the Vampires are the evolved Liches and thus mor powerful, whilst ideally they should be roughly on the same power level but developing in different directions.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 09:39 PM |
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Hermes said:
the Vampires are the evolved Liches
Exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Not even mentioning the gameplay alterations getting far away from its core.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:41 PM |
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TD said:
When I think of necromancer, pretty people are not what comes to mind for me.
I actually imagine a normal-looking human in dark robes, hooded. That being said, it's not the kind of character I'd imagine leading undead armies...
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:42 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 21:49, 05 May 2015.
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im sorry but i cant accept that "vampire to liches" kind of lore. never did and never will. thanks to redesigns of liches-vampires, and foretold "h8 as a clean universe reset", i dont have to recognise it.
some vampires are beutiful and some are not, age/pureness, experience etc etc.. determines this. i am okay with sexy redhead vampire as long as it is beutiful because of its life-style(a wizard which stays away from close battles, also using charming appaerance to help her own goals). i am also okay with a warlord male vamprie that literally gives no f*ck about appearance and full of scars, monster-like charisma, inhumanity with its claws etc etc.
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 05, 2015 09:45 PM |
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Hermes said:
Any long series fan who disagrees with Galaad/Stevie/Sempai and actually sees both good and bad in old games and generally likes the direction of Heroes 7 is not fan at all
Funny that I'm H5 fan actually lol. I've told a lot about flaws in old games and what good has been shown in H7 (stronghold, academy units e.g.) But you guys are usually arguing with such obvious things as random mechanics and stuff like that. It's the same as I will come to StarCraft forum and will try to convince members that maybe SC3 as TBS wouldn't be so bad idea and they shouldn't be afraid of innovations. What kind of reaction do you expect on such statements?
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
