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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 05, 2015 07:52 PM |
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Flanking bonuses are still way too high
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 07:52 PM |
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 05, 2015 07:55 PM |
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This description of skills is pretty annoying: creatures gain x defence for x level of x hero in case of x.
Meh.
Though skills are not bad. H4 style a little bit IMO. Still, doesn't change anything since the skillbush has wicked mechanics. Even the most awesome skills won't change H6's boredom.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted May 05, 2015 08:05 PM |
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I dont mind the skillwheel mechanics, but the perks worry me a little. Perks giving all creatures no ranged penalties or preemtive strike sort of negates the "uniqueness" of creatures with those skills. Like minotaurs. And offense/defense mirror each other a bit to much. Even if the "perks" in H5 often had cross skill prerequsits, they had more flavour. Like burning weapons, searing ground, ice-weapons etc. I hope they could include more perks like that in future "updates"/expansions and such. Or just make some faction specific perks for different skills then the faction-one.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:05 PM |
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cleglaw said:
what i observed is, generally new comers, new generation etc.. doesnt get the idea of uglyness & beuty correctly, and expecting every faction be to be sexy/beutiful. it doesnt make it better, on the contrary it shallows the content the game has. world needs ugly creatures too you know. to me, we need them both! sometimes to feel like sexy/handsome, and sometimes to feel otherworldly. both of them serves somethings. there should be a balance in numbers between both. when it happens like this i go like ughhh: 1 ugly-creature like hero, 2342342342352 beutiful hero and some of them as main characters... i mean come on give me some high fantasy, weird hero to play! h6 had handsome/beutiful humans in every single faction. 
Well, what I don't like is the "everything must be ugly!" attitude and even going so far to edit a single pretty character to make them look uglier, because "it's supposed to look that way".
Leave Lyla alone, she's supposed to look like she does now. 
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 05, 2015 08:10 PM |
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well hey it's not us making pointless edits to things, it's Erwin who edited the concept of the faction lol
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:13 PM |
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The Diplomacy seems to be OP imo
Necessary Alliance: There's no moral penalty for foreign creatures in the hero's army. Really? And this is Novice ability
Golden-Tongued: Creatures always offer you to join for free after successful negotiation. I'm really interested in the Diplomacy mechanic because it seems there's unsuccessful negotiation as well
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 05, 2015 08:16 PM |
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>>>Like burning weapons, searing ground, ice-weapons etc.
Welp. Actually abovementioned skills were becoming available after gaining few skills from different sectors (because of connections between skills). So how come that you dislike their absence and you like "new" SW mechanics?
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:26 PM |
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verriker said:
well hey it's not us making pointless edits to things
Yes, it is.
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The_Green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:27 PM |
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Wow they actually kept it. Preemptive strike for the defense skill. A whole new ability for all your units. I absolutely hate the concept of units getting new abilities through hero level ups. This sucks.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 08:31 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Necropolis heroes shouldn't be beautiful and young, they should be cadaverous and hideous :
Now you're talking crazy 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:39 PM |
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Galaad said:
LizardWarrior said:
Necropolis heroes shouldn't be beautiful and young, they should be cadaverous and hideous :
Now you're talking crazy
Well no, screw you. I could not care less how you guys believe things "should be" - I repeated many times that it's normal for vampiresses to be young and beautiful, even more, that was their core feature since the birth of the concept, but you of course never listen. Instead, it makes so much sense for a bunch of characters to purposefully deface themselves, because some random bunch of guys thinks they should be ugly, lol.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:39 PM |
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Hex said:
There you go:
Skills: Offense, Defense and Diplomacy
Stevie said:
Meh...
Overall "meh" skills in my opinion too...
Anyways....
1. Offense and Defense grandmaster abilities seem boring and kinda broken? Necro magic heroes have offense and defense as their main skills so they become spellcasters with the ability to nullify attack or defense skill value differences... this cant be right?? 
2. Also why bother picking the Amnesty ability and wasting a skill point? "Cost of surrendering is halved"... If you have to surrender, the game is usually going south pretty dramatically already. Doesnt make a difference whether the price is full/halved/free. Useful only if your strategy involves losing a lot  madness...
3. Pre-emptive strike... all im going to say is
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted May 05, 2015 08:41 PM |
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Man those perks are ridiculously unbalanced.
I actually wouldn't mind unbalanced perks IF THEY HAD PREREQUISITES but this way there is no tradeoff at all and I already know which skills I will take just like the with the previous skills...
Atleast before I tried H6 I didn't know the skills and had to figure things out and then only pick those skills in that order afterwards.
But as it turns out freely chosing whatever skills I wanted contained too much randomness for Ubis likings and they felt the need to let us know exactly which skills we will ever use half a year before release...
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:43 PM |
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The_Green_drag said:
Wow they actually kept it. Preemptive strike for the defense skill. A whole new ability for all your units. I absolutely hate the concept of units getting new abilities through hero level ups. This sucks.
I quite like it honestly. The creatures in H7 seem to have too few abilities on their own, and it makes sense that a powerful Might hero can influence his armies to that degree.
Love the diplomacy skill. Not every hero has access to it so it should feel unique. Same with preemptive strike! Minotaurs have it regardless of who is leading them!
What I am a bit disappointed though - the Grandmaster abilities in Offence/Defence seem a little bit plain. Also what good does the skill do if my creatures already have higher Attack/Defence than the enemy? Has to be tested.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 08:43 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Well no, screw you. I could not care less what you guys think that things "should be" - I repeated many times that it's normal for vampiresses to be young and beautiful, but you of course never listen. Instead, it makes so much sense for a bunch of characters to purposefully deface themselves, because some random bunch of guys thinks they should be ugly, lol.
I perfectly got it that you couldn't care less about the opinions from long time fans of the series who love the games you didn't even play.
Please, would you mind tuning down that tone?
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The_Green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:51 PM |
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Should have absolutely no problem with your army growing.
Every other hero spec is increase x creature by x amount, governor skill is back, now just pick up preemptive strike to cut out any losses from creeping and your good to go.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:53 PM |
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Just to add to what Galaad said;
Any long series fan who disagrees with Galaad/Stevie/Sempai and actually sees both good and bad in old games and generally likes the direction of Heroes 7 is not fan at all.
Should be on the forum rules.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:00 PM |
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ThatRedSarah said:
Hex said:
There you go:
Skills: Offense, Defense and Diplomacy
Stevie said:
Meh...
Overall "meh" skills in my opinion too...
Anyways....
1. Offense and Defense grandmaster abilities seem boring and kinda broken? Necro magic heroes have offense and defense as their main skills so they become spellcasters with the ability to nullify attack or defense skill value differences... this cant be right??
2. Also why bother picking the Amnesty ability and wasting a skill point? "Cost of surrendering is halved"... If you have to surrender, the game is usually going south pretty dramatically already. Doesnt make a difference whether the price is full/halved/free. Useful only if your strategy involves losing a lot madness...
3. Pre-emptive strike... all im going to say is
1. Magic heroes won't be able to level those abilities to GM rank. Likely only to Expert or at the most Master.
2. This is interesting, have to actually think about that.. May be there is a way to make those guerrilla tactics useful? Hmm..
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:04 PM |
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Edited by TD at 21:14, 05 May 2015.
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I can't say I'm exactly fan of this skill-system. In general all abilities seem to suit certain style player so you never have to do any real pro/con -analysis and go for the same things. Also GM of offense/defense seems to be targeted for magic heroes... Might hero will increase the stats passively so it only gives little boost if any in long run to low-tier units. Then again you can take diplo + no morale penalty so there is no reason to keep low-tier units. Meaning for might hero the GM of offense/defense is only useful very early on which kinda defeats the purpose unless you play small maps(which I don't play). For magic hero it only seems insanely powerful as it puts you on par with might hero... So far I think three classes from magic have access to off or def so they seem to me like must-have picks.
As for the diplomacy, I think it is VERY OP and there is no reason not to go for it with any class for the no morale penalty at least. I mean two levels for that kinda freedom to keep all kinds of top creatures of different factions. And always free recruitment? When I've played with my friends we sometimes even forbid diplomacy so single huge recruitment doesn't make or break the game...(I still remember one map of h6 where recruitment kept happening even without the skill, taking it as hero specialization was sure thing to win unless enemy had it too. I thought my 160 centaurs were good diplo, but my friend got around 100 inferno champs while playing as inferno... )
Overall it really saddens me that devs are going for such over simplification/casualization with the game. It doesn't feel like you will need to use your head a whole lot with h7. Everything is about optimization and I'm willing to bet there will be ultimate builds on the web once the game is out(since I'm already making them in my mind). I don't actually know if the game has added depth in any way to the series. I have small hopes for flanking, but high doubts also as IMO the game actually encourages players to turtle... I mean might hero with AoE-magic won't do much damage so not much of a threat(especially if there are more magic protection/resistance abilities). As for magic, well they will have lower stats so you can attack them as might. Just look what class they are and you know which approach to take. Everything just feels so optimized to work in certain way that there are no "ifs" or "buts", always just single right approach. The more I see the info on skills and mechanics the more and more I'm assured of this 
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
