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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 05, 2015 09:48 PM |
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in any case, some users are saying there should be a balance between beauty and ugliness in the faction because beauty everywhere only leads to monotony and lack of distinction,
I don't think anyone said "hurr, everything must be ugly", that just shows a reading comprehension failure, but even so in the Necropolis of death and undead it would be better hurr if everything was ugly than hurr everything is beautiful lol
as for the use of Wikipedia to indicate what a vampire should be, which is amusing in itself lol, vampire mythology dates back to the beginning of civilization, ancient Mesopotamia and Greece, Rome, so it's pointless even to discuss what the canonical portrayal is, there are so so many
the only canonical portrayal that has any meaning here is the one in Heroes from NWC, and that one was the Christopher Lee style Dracula aristocrat or the Nosferatu, so it's perfectly valid to argue that Erwin's fan fiction alien version is not sufficient lol
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Sorts
Known Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:50 PM |
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Galaad said:
Sligneris
The difference is that NWC with JVC CREATED this awesome series. And I consider it my perfect right to contest the decisions from the people who bought the rights, constantly violating the IP to my eyes.
So don't play games past H4 and don't try to force your ideas on everyone else as the one and only truth.
And for me NWC and JVC violated their own series with H4 (it may have good music and stories, but they don't save it... most people consider H6 more HoMM than H4) and totally idiotic blowing up their world.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 05, 2015 09:54 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Really, all I see in the old vampire designs is a flaw that thankfully got fixed.
Our vampires are different
But there are more serious issues than that..
I have a feeling that perfect offense will essentially be an improved version of giant slayer. If it raises the natural attack of units then it will be the low level units that benefit the most, especially against elite and champion units. If not.. nothing to write home about.
Archery negating range penalty just lol. At tier 1 too. Would have made better sense if it reduced range penalty instead.
Preemptive strike isn't as insane as that silly counterstrike 3 in H6, units have to defend first. This is gonna shine with haven doggies.
Amnesty isn't bad, just situational. If your hero can afford to push his luck, explore and get new joiners it's not a bad failsafe should you encounter a powerful enemy hero. That said I'd rather it was improved through the diplomacy skill than be an independent ability.
Glad volunteers became a tier 2 skill. Otherwise everyone and his dog would buy a diplomacy secondary and get free troops from (potentially) the first level up.
Silver tongued -> golden tongued eh.. The latter is plain imbalanced, gold was the only way to balance crazy joiners in the past. Worse yet one does not require the other so someone with access to tier 3 diplomacy can skip silver tongued entirely. But I guess the point is that not everyone can do that.. I'd be happier if golden tongued instead increased the odds of neutrals joining or worked like the H4 charm.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 05, 2015 09:55 PM |
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Sorts said:
And for me NWC and JVC violated their own series with H4 (it may have good music and stories, but they don't save it... most people consider H6 more HoMM than H4) and totally idiotic blowing up their world.
rather 3DO violated the series by forcing NWC to divert all resources to Legends of Might and Magic and pushing out Heroes 4 around 6-12 months before it was done against NWC's will,
but even then I don't agree more people think H6 is a better Heroes game, H6 sucks lol
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 05, 2015 09:56 PM |
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Quote:
most people consider H6 more HoMM than H4)
Ņan you provide some statistics where from we can get that "most"? H4 was really out of the line but still was funny to play and H4 had some interesting features as skill system (more complicated one, wasn't perfect but still interesting) and some more. Which innovations you can describe as successful in H6? I can't recall any.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 05, 2015 09:57 PM |
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Sorts said:
So don't play games past H4 and don't try to force your ideas on everyone else as the one and only truth.
I don't like to see my childhood being violated. Yes this is how I feel and I disagree with you saying I am forcing my opinion.
I had plenty debates done in a civil way in this forum and I don't like being accused by people bumping out of nowhere.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 09:57 PM |
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Town conversion was a good innovation terribly implemented, I guess.
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted May 05, 2015 09:57 PM |
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Back to the new Skills, what does Adaptability exactly do? I don't understand it.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:00 PM |
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Sempai said:
Quote:
most people consider H6 more HoMM than H4)
Ņan you provide some statistics where from we can get that "most"? H4 was really out of the line but still was funny to play and H4 had some interesting features as skill system (more complicated one, wasn't perfect but still interesting) and some more. Which innovations you can describe as successful in H6? I can't recall any.
what the f*ck means "more homm?" if it is about classic h3-like gameplay, then i agree with him, h6 is more homm then h4.
but seriously, very seriously bored to see "this is homm" type of attitude. lets just define core of it, and leave the rest to be the subjects for a possible change. h4 is homm, h6 is homm. they are different games in series, but both are being homm in their core experience.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:01 PM |
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cleglaw said:
im sorry but i cant accept that "vampire to liches" kind of lore. never did and never will. thanks to redesigns of liches-vampires, and foretold "h8 as a clean universe reset", i dont have to recognise it.
some vampires are beutiful and some are not, age/pureness, experience etc etc.. determines this. i am okay with sexy redhead vampire as long as it is beutiful because of its life-style(a wizard which stays away from close battles, also using charming appaerance to help her own goals). i am also okay with a warlord male vamprie that literally gives no f*ck about appearance and full of scars, monster-like charisma, inhumanity with its claws etc etc.
It's actually Liches to Vampires and also I doubt there will ever be a world reset especially in Heroes 8. Ashanti is too hard worked on at the moment for it to happen.
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 05, 2015 10:03 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Town conversion was a good innovation terribly implemented, I guess.
Didn't see where it was good but ok. As for me it just added more boredom inside the total boreness of h6. So we can say the same about everything like... "skill system was good but terribly implemented". Hell knows how it would look like with better implementation.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:05 PM |
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Edited by TD at 22:07, 05 May 2015.
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Sligneris said:
Town conversion was a good innovation terribly implemented, I guess.
I completely agree with you there. Random towns on the map very often decide the winner of the map if you get lucky and find your own faction town while others find different faction. Too many times when playing hotseat me or the other player knows they will lose when we know enemy has like 3-4 towns of same faction while you are unlucky and keep getting misc towns.
Zeki said:
Back to the new Skills, what does Adaptability exactly do? I don't understand it.
You can destroy buildings in h7 to change from black-dragon to hydra for example. By doing so you will have to destroy a whole town-level(for example in h5 this would have meant capital + champion level I think). I dunno how the levels are exactly divided in h7, but probably something similar. Those who participated in the Paris event can probably shed light on the town-levels more.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:08 PM |
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Galaad said:
Sorts said:
So don't play games past H4 and don't try to force your ideas on everyone else as the one and only truth.
I don't like to see my childhood being violated. Yes this is how I feel and I disagree with you saying I am forcing my opinion.
I had plenty debates done in a civil way in this forum and I don't like being accused by people bumping out of nowhere.
Well your childhood is your problem no one else's and while I do appreciate you being civil most of the times, those people bumping out of nowhere could actually be long time readers who had enough of reading same insults to the franchise and decided to speak up.
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 05, 2015 10:09 PM |
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Edited by Sempai at 22:14, 05 May 2015.
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Cleglaw, actually, both H4 and H6 were out of the line. So It's really tough for me to call H6 as a common heroes game. The gameplay was totally different. The thing is that in H4 the visible and the most noticable part of the gameplay (hero on the battlefield, strange sieges, strange castles, necroferno etc) was totally different from the other games in Heroes series. But with that core mechanics was very similar (skill system, random system etc). And in h6 visible part of gameplay is more similar to classic games but the mechanics is way too diferent from all heroes games. And up to me that's much more important thing.
Quote:
if you get lucky and find your own faction town while others find different faction. Too many times when playing hotseat me or the other player knows they will lose when we know enemy has like 3-4 towns of same faction while you are unlucky and keep getting misc town
Yes, that's the randomness. So what? You are losing your kidney after failing on the map? Many times I've lost the match just because got unluck with proper skills and had to deal with crappy things. Or my enemy got in a random way pack of joined units which fit his faction. So what? I can't get those "i want control" guys. Go play some starcraft or something. This game always has been about randomness. ENJOY GAMEPLAY, NOT JUST A VICTORY. It was fun to play. You can't win every time. Deal with it, guys. Life is a really random thing as well, just think about it.
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted May 05, 2015 10:14 PM |
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TD said:
Zeki said:
Back to the new Skills, what does Adaptability exactly do? I don't understand it.
You can destroy buildings in h7 to change from black-dragon to hydra for example. By doing so you will have to destroy a whole town-level(for example in h5 this would have meant capital + champion level I think). I dunno how the levels are exactly divided in h7, but probably something similar. Those who participated in the Paris event can probably shed light on the town-levels more.
Thanks for answering, but what do they mean with "dismantled instead of destroyed"? What is the difference in this?
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 05, 2015 10:16 PM |
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Hermes said:
Well your childhood is your problem no one else's and while I do appreciate you being civil most of the times, those people bumping out of nowhere could actually be long time readers who had enough of reading same insults to the franchise and decided to speak up.
well you see, what constitutes an "insult to the franchise" is a matter of perspective lol
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted May 05, 2015 10:16 PM |
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oh wait, do you mean that you can normally only destroy everything in a town level alltogether and whith the skill you only destroy one single building?
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:19 PM |
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Galaad said:
Sligneris said:
Really, the old vampire designs were a flaw that thankfully got fixed. They were terribly designed in NWC's world
I consider this to be offensive, both to the series and to the fans.
It's offensive to noone. It just happens that some people have diferent opinion of what is good and what is bad, which is with artistic terms absolutely subjective. If I don't think that music YOU listen to or movies YOU watch are good, then I'm not offending you, but have merely diferent taste.
I'm sorry Galaad, I actualy think you do have a lot of good points, but this is not one of them. What happened whith "everyone has right to his own opinion?" If you say somebody's opinion is offensive to you, and should be not listened to, or removed, then that's clearly oposite of that statement. Always lead by example.
I'm holding you in high esteem, Galaad, don't become "that guy".
As for my opinion? I have not tell anyone up till now what I think, but it's the time to reveal so ...
I think Ubisofts heroes series is DIFERENT. Not necesseraly worse, and in many ways not better ... just DIFERENT. But in more detail:
- the story in campaign is better in Ubi's version
- the LORE behind it is TERRIBLE in ubi's version, but I don't care much for either aspects of the game. - lore is non-existent in NWC series, because if there would exist explanation on how there's 1000 Medusas, it would be illogical one ... like Ubisoft's. Ubi's problem is that it tries to make sense of lore, where there should not be one.
- Artstyle is DIFERENT, but NOT WORSE.
- gameplay is MORE COMPLEX, but has less DEPT to it in Ubi's version. This is however diferent with each game. H1 has less dept than H6 even, and H3 has more dept than H6, even tho H6 has more factors to it. H4 is most complex, and has loads of dept, but H5 has similar ammount of dept with less complexity.
- Multiplayer is better in Ubisoft's games, when it comes to internet play, but LAN matches are better in NWC heroes, coz it's less hastle, and turns come faster. However sim-turns make LAN games in Ubisoft's era even better, and worth the hastle.
- Games were more polished and have less bugs in NWC era, but that is true for all modern games. Expansions are superior than DLC's, and CD's/DVD's are better than download. On the other hand, buying games of Steam is cheaper and easier than in old days.
So in short. It comes down to each individual game, when gameplay is concerned. H4, and H3's Forge and Conflux showed that bad decisions/games were done in NWC era, and H5 showed that good games CAN BE DONE in Ubisofts era.
As far as artstyle and story goes, it comes down to people's taste and is completley subjective and depends on trends that are popular in the given time.
So far Ubisoft had given ONE GOOD and ONE BAD game. NWC has given us one mediocre (H1 - yes I love this game, but I admit), one bad (H4, altho now after several years it gained popularity strangely, but I still don't like it), and 2 GOOD (H2 and H3) games. And given this, I'm not convinced Ubi's Heroes are bad by deafult.
P.S.: Oh in NWC times games had Demos. And this is better. Want H7 to have demo aswell? Go to my "H7 Demo - yay or nay" thread and vote that you want Heroes 7 demo! - maybe Ubi-Nox will awaken and give us demo
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:21 PM |
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verriker said:
Hermes said:
Well your childhood is your problem no one else's and while I do appreciate you being civil most of the times, those people bumping out of nowhere could actually be long time readers who had enough of reading same insults to the franchise and decided to speak up.
well you see, what constitutes an "insult to the franchise" is a matter of perspective lol
Exactly!
To Zeki:
I think what Adaptability is mainly made for - conquer enemy town and sell those levels for money. Pretty much plundering mechanic.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:22 PM |
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Zeki said:
oh wait, do you mean that you can normally only destroy everything in a town level alltogether and whith the skill you only destroy one single building?
No, I believe you still have to destroy the whole level. The difference is that now you can some resources back from those buildings while without the skill you get nothing. This will be nice skill for secondary hero, take empty enemy town and if you can't keep it you destroy the expensive building level with champions for example AND get some resources for doing that.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
