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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1635 pages long: 1 200 400 600 ... 799 800 801 802 803 ... 1000 1200 1400 1600 1635 · «PREV / NEXT»
verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted May 07, 2015 11:49 PM

man oh man, and here I thought I was the master of car crash discussions, you guys all make me look lazy lol
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Sempai
Sempai


Known Hero
Ubi is love
posted May 07, 2015 11:53 PM

xerox said:
it still looks stupid with huge Elrath statue and buidlings outside protection of the walls.

Sure. They do listen to the fans once it is about figurine pose or soundtrack included to the collectors lmao.

Is it statue? Doesn't look like one. Or did they already invented plastic and made it from it? Because I have no idea how the hell it was possible to make the statue with the size of a town. xD

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Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2015 11:58 PM
Edited by Minastir at 10:17, 08 May 2015.

Don't want to interrupt you guys but I don't which thread is appropriate for this spell topic

based on todays magic guild screenshot

and IGN Gamescom Gameplay Demo (I know it could change since then but still)

7 Light magic spells:

Cleansing Light, Divine Strength, Heal, Sun Beam, Celestial Armor, Sunburst, Resurrection

EDIT: or maybe there is sun beam only, not sure about fourth and sixth icon

EDIT2: Oh and I forgot, there is light magic adventure map spell, Blessing of Elrath

On the magic guild screenshot we can see also Sylanna icon, that means that there will be one adventure map spells for each dragon god

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Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2015 11:58 PM

Sempai said:
xerox said:
it still looks stupid with huge Elrath statue and buidlings outside protection of the walls.

Sure. They do listen to the fans once it is about figurine pose or soundtrack included to the collectors lmao.

Is it statue? Doesn't look like one. Or did they already invented plastic and made it from it? Because I have no idea how the hell it was possible to make the statue with the size of a town. xD

MAGIC
P.s. The statute is silly I agree

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 12:09 AM
Edited by cleglaw at 00:15, 08 May 2015.

i want to point out something:




wisdom abilities from different magic schools will stack on each other! its synergical as i expected. but on the other hand, abilities doesnt really seem different? its another topic to discuss but.. anyway.

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 12:16 AM
Edited by Protolisk at 00:22, 08 May 2015.

cleglaw said:
i want to point out something:

wisdom abilities from different magic schools will stack on each other! its synergical as i expected. but on the other hand, abilities doesnt really seem different? its another topic to discuss but.. anyway.



Interestingly enough, so far, only Prime magic has the Wisdom buff as a novice skill. I guess this kinda makes sense.

And, no, they don't seem all that different. It seems each will likely be roughtly the same, barring exactly which spells get buffed and how, of course, but so far, it looks like only Gathering Storm doesn't have a exact equal, though perhaps that skill will indeed be the same. i doubt that though. Indeed, Light has one seemingly unknown novice ability, and Prime has a different expert one. And, of course, we don't know the exact spells they buff or the GM.

I bet schools will go:

novice: ___ Scholar, "Master"1, and a school specific.
Expert: ___ Wisdom, "Master"2
Master: "Master"3
GM: A school specific.

Baring Prime, which has Wisdom and the first specific switched.

Which is a bit bland, to be fair.

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Sempai
Sempai


Known Hero
Ubi is love
posted May 08, 2015 12:19 AM

@Minastir, thanx. Looks fine to me now. But I think 7 schools is still overcomplication. I can't understand why did they decide to go in a complicated way for several parts of gameplay and simplify (up to primitivity) in other parts of it? Thought I think without mechanics of the spells their appearance is pretty uninformative. H6 pictures were not bad btw but spells were crap lol.

As for the statue, Hermes, it might seem unimportant visual issue or something but imo it just indicates the lack of logic in game design in general. I'm not an artist or an architector or something but it's easy for me to understand that this giant pokemon couldn't been built by the same people who created this tiny town. E.g. in H5 haven city was epic and graal statue was a STATUE (warden of Elrath or what's its name?). It looked logical and suitable for that city. Now it's just some ridiculous dragon or something... That's just a small example. This cancer is in almost every aspect of this came as far as been revealed. Some of you tell that we are afraid of new stuff but actually most of us don't. We afraid of degradation of heroes. Compare it with H5 and find that the a lot of stuff is worse than it was almost 10 years ago. That's a joke. Joke and shame, guys. Even if we talk about visuals which are not that much important to my mind that's a bottom doing even them worse than it has been made on some ancient buggy engine in 2006. So where's the development? I can't see it. Can you?

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Sorts
Sorts


Known Hero
posted May 08, 2015 12:29 AM
Edited by Sorts at 00:33, 08 May 2015.

Edit: Misread Sempai's post Thought he was rambling about unreal engine.

Although i might dislike the stature, i din't even find it that problematic. In the end how often are you going to build the grail building and how often are you going to spend hours staring at it.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 08, 2015 12:36 AM
Edited by Stevie at 00:36, 08 May 2015.

Let's make more buildings look completely ridiculous because what are the chances that they might actually get built. Genius reasoning.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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ninjata12
ninjata12


Adventuring Hero
posted May 08, 2015 12:38 AM

Can you tell me what is the Fortification screen all about? I don't really get it...

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Sempai
Sempai


Known Hero
Ubi is love
posted May 08, 2015 12:49 AM
Edited by Sempai at 01:00, 08 May 2015.

@Sorts, actually I've said that the statue is a minor issue as all visuals. The problem is that such approach is in every aspect of the game. Lack of logic and degradation. (I just stay silent about Necropolis town lol, R.I.P. undead).

ninjata12 said:
Can you tell me what is the Fortification screen all about? I don't really get it...

As I understood, this is a separate screen which allows to build forts, moat and stuff. This things below I think you can build them additionally (or, probably, wall segment = lvl 1 fortifications, wall gate = 1-2 lvl, tower = 2 lvl, moat = 3 lvl). But if statement in brackets are right, the placement of those buttons is a little bit dumb imo.

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 12:56 AM
Edited by cleglaw at 01:05, 08 May 2015.

Sempai said:
@Minastir, thanx. Looks fine to me now. But I think 7 schools is still overcomplication. I can't understand why did they decide to go in a complicated way for several parts of gameplay and simplify (up to primitivity) in other parts of it?


i think i just figured out the reason why now, in this last weeks. with lots of classes, we have lots of different builds, and those builds are not define extreme skillsets in them.

to my guess, patterns is something like this:

pick a faction>>>pick a class>>>pick a hero from that class>>>build it in a range of given skillsets consisting 10 branchs, some of them are must have, and others are to spice things up, related hepful skills&abilities.

its very consistent if you think in its own system.. its logical. but it is different from other games, and by other games, i mean all other games! some elements and similarities are present but system is definietly unique to itself, and acctually we cant really understand if its enjoyable or not because its like i said, unique and nothink alike. 7 magic schools is logical in this system mechanics, becuse this system wants a lot of different, unique classes.


Sempai said:
Thought I think without mechanics of the spells their appearance is pretty uninformative. H6 pictures were not bad btw but spells were crap lol.


we only miss values of them, because they are marked by filler X symbol. air magic was pretty much informative, and all spells were tactically different from another with secondary effects etc etc in it... h6 spells had big issues but "being bad" wasn one of them, they were theorically good but very hard to learn and cast, due to wierd skill-spell system.

Sempai said:
As for the statue, Hermes, it might seem unimportant visual issue or something but imo it just indicates the lack of logic in game design in general. I'm not an artist or an architector or something but it's easy for me to understand that this giant pokemon couldn't been built by the same people who created this tiny town. E.g. in H5 haven city was epic and graal statue was a STATUE (warden of Elrath or what's its name?). It looked logical and suitable for that city.



grail for h7 haven, really looks ridicilous, and it should be fixed, there are lot of suggestions on this TS topic. nearly everyone is on agreement with that, including myself.

Sempai said:
Now it's just some ridiculous dragon or something... That's just a small example. This cancer is in almost every aspect of this came as far as been revealed.


i dont see such examples? what cancer?

Sempai said:
Some of you tell that we are afraid of new stuff but actually most of us don't. We afraid of degradation of heroes.


ofcourse noone want degrade, but its not the case anymore, for example h7 fortification system is "most likely" gonna be the most complex one in the series. i believe no such "cancer" generalising fits h7.

Sempai said:
Compare it with H5 and find that the a lot of stuff is worse than it was almost 10 years ago. That's a joke. Joke and shame, guys. Even if we talk about visuals which are not that much important to my mind that's a bottom doing even them worse than it has been made on some ancient buggy engine in 2006. So where's the development? I can't see it. Can you?


h5, imho, had terrible art design including visuals to soundtracks as probably worst of the series. repetetive and warcraftish.

h7 is on the other hand clearly have very good soundtrack in it with less warcraftish approach in visuals(well necro with spiders says no im warcraftish but anyway exclude it for a second).

adventure map is gonna be a really detailed, tasty one, with cool innovations like buildable/breakable bridges etc etc, so i guess it made its progress over past games like it should. so again i cant see such cancer.

there are lot to discuss but i really, honestly cant see such cancer.

btw, about engines, i have experience over them because of my job, and i can assure you its very flexible and functional, its a good choice for them because of RMG and ME.

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 12:57 AM

Some more thoughts about the Building screen.

Firstly, the lack of the Seraphs' dwelling. I assume this is because the Swordmaster's building is already built, but, shouldn't there be a sort of greyed out building then? Now, I suppose it could just be in the exact same place as the Swordmasters, yet... that isn't very interesting. I thought perhaps the Swordmaster would require the Cavalier dwelling, and the Seraphs would need the Abbot, for example. As it appears here, this is not the case. Strange.

Similarly, Abbots don't need the Mage Guild, unlike the Monks of old in H3/5. I don't know how I feel about that, but at least they do need the Sister, which makes some sense.

Also, I am trying to dissect the tech tree for these buildings, and I am not 100% sure of many buildings beyond the blacksmith, the hall of heroes, and the building required for the Sister. Strange how you need the hall of heroes to get the Sisters, but not the Balista. I can assume the buildings on the far right of the build screen are the Market Place, the Embassy, the Resource silo, and the Alchemist lab, but I can't be too sure. They do all seem resource based, to a degree, with the Embassy making diplomacy cheaper, so it makes some sense. However, what I believe to be the Alchemist lab does need the Abbot, yet, not Mage Guild. Still seems strange to me.

What is going on between the Justicar's and the Abbot's "+" building. It seems to be a prerequisite of some kind, yet, you can't really tell what direction it is in. I hope it's toward the right, and thus needing Justicars before Abbot "increase", and not the other way around.

And, lastly... how do you build a Thieves' Guild? There isn't a one stop shop a la the Tavern for both the Hero and Theives functions, and here they are separated by a building.

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Sempai
Sempai


Known Hero
Ubi is love
posted May 08, 2015 01:40 AM
Edited by Sempai at 02:02, 08 May 2015.

cleglaw said:

i dont see such examples? what cancer?



With all my respect, I won't repeat all my complaints since the beginning hehe. And I don't find heroes classes solution as a good one. That's my opinion. I prefered H5 system about that more than H3.

Some of you tell that we are afraid of new stuff but actually most of us don't. We afraid of degradation of heroes.

ofcourse noone want degrade, but its not the case anymore, for example h7 fortification system is "most likely" gonna be the most complex one in the series. i believe no such "cancer" generalising fits h7.


cleglaw said:
h5, imho, had terrible art design including visuals to soundtracks as probably worst of the series. repetetive and warcraftish.

H5 soundtack by King&Romero. I foud it as the best one after H4 soundtrack. Haven theme was a masterpiece IMO. So what are your complaints in particular?
As for art direction it is arguable but still it was better than H4, right? So it was a development. Now shall I remind you h7 necropolis lineup? Lol... In h5 maybe some visuals were "cartoony" wow style but no direct similarities to my mind. Correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not a wow guy.

cleglaw said:
adventure map is gonna be a really detailed

The good thing which I can admit is a multilevelness. I liked that relief stuff from video. Though scripts don't touch me at all. It's just a technical tool for singleplayer. Could've been done in any heroes game. Simply don't care. If we are talking about global map, let's talk about artifacts in boxes. Sweet juicy H6 style lmao. While H5 there was different model for each artifact. But generally it's even funny that we are really compare 2006 visuals with 2015 lol...

Summarizing abovementioned: simplification of SW, random to non-random, silly 2d cities instead of beatiful 3d, boxed artifacts instead of unique models, rejecting best H5 initiative system to a simplier one h6-like ======> CANCER.

You won't admit it but that's obvious. I know there are few new things which require trying e.g. flanking and even those scripts, but they are really just new. That's not an evolution. This is revolution (in a bad meaning of this word). I could bring you more examples but I'm a bit sleepy so tough to think. Plus you will counter me like "no, that's beautiful and you should try it before claiming bad". Of course, I'm gonna try. But withoug paying them money definately. If they will give open beta or demo, I'll try and decide if it worth some bucks or nope and then I'll decide. If no, the piratebay and a bottle of rum waits for me, yo-ho-ho. I believe that destroying the successfull game mechanics is not a development and evolution but revolution and stupidity.
Imagine a mammal becoming a water creature like a dolphin. It adopts, grow some fins, cover itself with some mucus, acquire some optimal shape (evolution). And then after some erwageddon it just grows 8 legs, pedipalps, moves to desert and go hunt for a flies. Can it exist in a new form? - Yes, why not? Is this an evolution? - Definately not. The same story was with heroes 4 btw. Not a bad game but out of the line.

P.S. btw didn't get which engine are you talking about? UE3? No doubts, very good engine, I didn't say anything against it. The problem is that they don't know how to deal with it according to an announced system requirements lmfao.

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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted May 08, 2015 07:40 AM

cleglaw said:
i want to point out something:




Did anyone notice the two catapult icons in expert warfare?

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 08:37 AM
Edited by Zombi_Wizzard at 08:56, 08 May 2015.

Sempai said:
Is it statue? Doesn't look like one. Or did they already invented plastic and made it from it? Because I have no idea how the hell it was possible to make the statue with the size of a town. xD

It's simple realy, once you know about 2 ... well 3 fanfiction realizations about Ashan, that I think are real:

1. Gold is a common metal in Ashan. Similar to copper in our world. Not as common as iron perhaps, but still plentifull enough. And from copper you get bronze, and in our world we have bronze statues ... in Ashan, they have gold statues.

2. Statue is hollow inside. That's right.

3. Gravity in Ashan is lower than on Earth, because Ashan is smaller than Earth. You can see this from map of Ashan clearly. To support this, you have giant flying lizzards, and humans wearing tick armor and wielding huge swords, that would not be possible on Earth. The gravity isn't that low than on let's say moon, but it's noticable. That hollow golden statue of Elrath is significantly lighter, cheaper, and easier to make, than this thing would be, if it would be on Earth.

EDIT: But I agree it's silly bit and oversized, that is trying to be wanna-be "epic" too much. However will you realy drw the lin with Elrath's statue? Remember H3 Inferno's statue ... was even bigger (or maybe it was projection like Batman sign). or how about 1000 medusas in an army. yes MEDUSAS, it's like saying ... Unit: Stevie - growth rate: 10 per week. Battle text: "20 Stevies deal 10,000 points of damage, 15 Erwan's perish".

It makes no sense to have multiple instances of named creature ... that is one. But there you go. Common sense was never strongpoint in HoMM series. Where would you draw the line? There are way MORE silly things about Ashan and HoMM in general ... statue of Elrath is MINOR compared to them ... and those things are accepted. So why not Statue?

It's a GRAIL. It's supposed to be SUPPER EXTRAORDINARY and HUGE and IMPOSSIBLE and all that - and it must match this criteria in ASHAN. If giant flying lizzards, and floating cities of gold are a common sight then ... well let's say you wouldn't be impressed by a 6 foot bronze statue now ... would you?  

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Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 10:51 AM



Best post I have read in a while

Thanks Zombie!!

P.s. Those Erwans are OP..

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Sempai
Sempai


Known Hero
Ubi is love
posted May 08, 2015 11:18 AM
Edited by Sempai at 11:28, 08 May 2015.

@Zombi_Wizzard, how all those abovementioned stuff are related to common small buildings from wood and stone which look pretty simple and uninventive.

Can you look here? You can notice that all statues and buildings are in common style with other citie's buildings. Can you say the same about the giant pokemon?

Whatever, it even doesn't matter. Haven city is fine to me even. I just put a sample of logic problems in this game (one of many). Shall I remind you spider legs or something to receive even more phantasmagorical excuses? Lel...

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 02:54 PM

Regarding the latest SC article:

TS looks significantly better than before. What it needs IMO is
1. All important buildings on the inside of the fort/walls. Even in real life most civilian buildings would have been on the outside and during an attack people would've fled to the inside of the castle or fortress.
2. The waterway shouldn't have those arcs, just wall with water running just beneath it as infiltrators would get through the current arcs.
3. Add some life to the town. Now it at least has some civilian buildings, but it's still like a painting with nothing really going on. Put some guards(once you have them via defences), caravans(with market) coming in/out from gates, troops training, civilians as town hall grows, etc. Don't mean all of these, but something to give the town some life...
4. Get rid of the dragon statue or at least make it waaaaaayyyyyy smaller. Why would enemy even attack the town through gates if they can just use the statue as ramp and shoot everybody dead from top of it...?

Towns building chart seems utter crap to me. So many requirements without a whole lot of logic IMO. Wanna go capital fast? 10/15 buildings are already pre-set. Probably wanna take cheap building on top so MG I, some core troops and market and there you go. I don't even understand why are cavaliers required for the capital... Or priest + justicar for the steroid-dudes. Justicar I could somewhat see fitting as both physical sword units...
The town chart is probably even worse than I actually had imagined because it has very little freedom for how to build the town. The MG is thankfully not as high on the requirements as I had thought. I really hope devs will loosen up the requirements for troops or it comes utter optimization for the towns and you build them up the same way every time.(Ok realistically I think you will have 2-3 ways to build the town depending on your resources and building costs).

Troop recruitment seems ok. Weird order for creatures, but I presume you can move them around manually so "recruit all" takes them in order you want and that's why they are in such order for the pic (incase you don't have all the money for them all).

Caravans can be made to auto-unload to town I hope...? I mean it's nice that you can store them in caravan window if you order non-upgraded and upgraded troops for example, but it's just extra buttons to press. Also change "try to unload all" to "unload all", it just looks idiotic IMO.

Warfare units I kinda like so far. They cost resources aside gold which is good. What I don't get is why there are numbers for them...? When you originally said you can upgrade them, did you actually mean we can just buy them like any troops so we can have x ballista... instead of single one as before? Also if you didn't mean this by the upgrades, then what did you mean?(I hope not just upgrade them via the warfare units -skill since that would be nothing new really...

Hero recruitment is hard topic to say since only thing revealed is couple pics... Hero recruited has x + y units, they gonna be all like this as in h6? So you can't have only x units or x + y + z units for example? Will some heroes have war-machines at start? Are the unit numbers stagnant or grow as in h6?
Can you recruit different faction heroes?(Can't really say factions for sure from pic personally)
Will they start always with level 1? Or scale up like h6? And can you recruit defeated heroes? If hero has fled with artis, will they stay with hero if he can be recruited again(in case of enemy hero that doesn't get recruited)?
Can I see the skills of the hero I'm recruiting or do I have to remember them all by myself as to which class gives which skills as main?
How does the hero-recruitment cost scale? +500 per each new hero or something like h6 where hero could cost over 100k?

Trade resources looks very good IMO. I hope you have something similar to trade with other players as well(not just gifting as before)

MG, I suppose nothing surprising there really. I would like to know is the left side for adventure map spells? And right side is for...? It sounds like it could be summon troops from town or town-portal, but hard to say. I hope that MG is with the extra library, otherwise it has excessive amount of spells IMO for single MG.

Thieves guild seems lame to be honest. 100 Gold means there is no real pro/con -situation as it doesn't hurt your economy. Not fan of being able to choose the info you buy, but I guess since this is spies guild it's more natural that way compared to thieves guild who share intrigue for pay little by little. Develop the concept a bit further and I think hero with thieves guild specialization might be nice(or maybe there is ability in skill-tree?).

Fortification idea seems like a decent concept. Unfortunately it seems it's aimed only for small/medium maps. The unit numbers are very good early defense, but later they are absolutely meaningless. These should be something that increase as game goes on(not being so limited) or at least so you can buy/upgrade them with excess gold.

Artifact recycle... Could be nice seeing as academy has been using plenty of rares... But will be depending if artis are really worth any resources really. And can you sell them for pure gold as before...? Would've really hope to see example arti here and what it would be worth.

Scroll-shop with no prices or names... I do like the idea of being able to buy scrolls, I just hope you still have your normal shops to buy artis from too(including set items which were missing in h6!).


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JotunLogi
JotunLogi


Known Hero
posted May 08, 2015 03:55 PM

Gosh, towns look much better and generally are really good!

In Haven I only do not like some minor things that can stay and decisively will not spoil the fun and general mression. Placement is solid, better than in Hereos 3, same background and surrounding nature. Therre could be more buildings, also some moat surrounding walls...

For me in Haven's townscreen only those things, after watching over and over, could be slightly improved:

-  townportal is now accessble but road to it is sand, not brick, what is a bit weird. Although behind wall, it is in safe district that reqquires conquering town to even get there

- walls could have a bit larger towers, there are barely visible (but are)

- bit more buildings

- only thing that really bothers me is the fact that overall the TS is now hell more orange- light than it was earlier. Background has changed a bit and it was way more darker, with more vivid colours, Now it is a bit faint

Overall 9 or even 9+/10.

I put it over HoMM 1,3 and 5 castles/ Haven (M&M: Heroes 6 is disaster). IMO Knight from Homm 2 is still superior- but this is not shame considering that I love HoMM 2 knight

Academy is greaat, the only thing I would add are some small portals on each island. But maybe those are already present in buildings? The quality of buildings and colours are truly great and the TS is smply marvelous

I would only see some portlals on each islands cause I do nto beleieve that they use only magic carpets for travelling (or maybe those are inside buildings??). Also titan dwelling is more like grail or temple instead arena/ factory. And Simurgh dwelling is a bit random

Overall, 9+ or even 10, truly grat and pleasant to wtch. Among the best (or even the best)

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