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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Should Ashan be scraped?
Thread: Should Ashan be scraped? This thread is 42 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 03:56 PM

Brukernavn said:

And this is what I loved about it. It's much more interesting to read about actual mythological creatures, than a plagiarised look-a-like, or something new they came up with.

and that's what i didn't like in H3! some units did not make a lick of sense being in the same faction! nagas with gremlings? gorgons with pretty much anything else in foretress? and factions weren't  consistent. and that's why i always picked necro because it was consistent to its theme.
btw mythological creatures' actual story wouldn't make sense in H3.
or in any  game!
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 06, 2014 03:59 PM

ChrisD1 said:
well can we first wait to see and play a heroes game with ALL faction available? and then maybe it would be time to move on.

Having all 9 factions doesn't change the fact that those are the same nine factions we all know.

ChrisD1 said:
but i still believe they can pull anything out of a hat, and give us a new faction just like that.

Realistic speaking, and considering what they've said in the past, they won't add new factions anytime soon. Maybe it's just me, but I dread of seeing some factions through a fourth iteration...

ChrisD1 said:
maybe some watchers that it's time to intervene or some renegades creating a new faction, maybe heretics not acknowledging the dragon gods fueled by another force. the scenarios are endless in my opinion and just because we can't see them right now, it does not mean that the jesus christ of writers can't come along and enrich ashan with a couple more factions.

The thing is, those 'endless scenarios' aren't in Erwan mind, so we are basically snowed.

One day they may be open to new factions and shake Ashan, but as of today that isn't the case.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 06, 2014 04:02 PM

If they had guts, they'd let the void win - only to start over again. This would have given them an excuse to "redo" Ashan history.

What I don't like is the following: They began to tell their story in a fully developed universe, no problem, continued the story with DM to a well-done cliffhanger, paving the way for a really nice reshuffle - and what does HoMM VI do? A PREQUEL? Really?
Great, so HoMM 6 goes back into the past, everyone knows what happens - now can we please continue the story and solve the cliffhanger?

Nope, we can't. Instead we get another PREQUEL.

For me, it's one prequel too many - the idea was not good the first time and it doesn't get better the second.
Storywise it feels - like a filler. "Erwan, can we god ahead with the story? I have a nice script for Inferno splitting just like the Elves. Sareth founds his own Inferno, like the Urgash Messiah, leading the "good" Inferno creatures out of Sheogh..." "No, sorry, didn't make up my mind, yet, how we will continue this. Meanwhile we could explore the start of the the Holy Empire, Ronan Falcon unifying the clans..."
It feels like we are stuck somehow, jumping between Eclipses, rewinding history, redoing the same over and over again.

I mean, Ivan Griffin, really? Thrilling.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 04:08 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 16:09, 06 Sep 2014.

Storm-Giant said:

The thing is, those 'endless scenarios' aren't in Erwan mind, so we are basically snowed.

One day they may be open to new factions and shake Ashan, but as of today that isn't the case.

thank you for seeing my point through and through so whatever universe they make it will still be the same writers. ashan itself has potential that the writers refuse to go there so why should it be scraped? oh erwan..
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 04:12 PM

We are the biggest heroes forum on the internet and we can't persuade Erwan change his mind or Ubisoft to put someone else in charge. What a shame... they said they were gonna be more open to fans this time.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 04:14 PM

LizardWarrior said:
We are the biggest heroes forum on the internet and we can't persuade Erwan change his mind or Ubisoft to put someone else in charge. What a shame... they said they were gonna be more open to fans this time.


we all forgot to ask about the story in the Q&A thingy too :/

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 06, 2014 04:19 PM

We all be damned, I also forgot to make 'pressure' by asking about the nine faction limit (although it's not related to Heroes 7)
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Too Many Erwin Spoil The Broth
posted September 06, 2014 04:42 PM

LizardWarrior said:
We are the biggest heroes forum on the internet and we can't persuade Erwan change his mind or Ubisoft to put someone else in charge. What a shame... they said they were gonna be more open to fans this time.


I think the only reliable way to get stubborn old Erwin out of power is to stop buying all these ****** products related to his universe

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 06, 2014 04:43 PM

Storm-Giant said:
We all be damned, I also forgot to make 'pressure' by asking about the nine faction limit (although it's not related to Heroes 7)

I already know the answer to that.

Ubisoft Community rep/ Erwan said:
We've yet to develop the factions we already to what we feel is their full potential. Once we've gotten there, we might start thinking about adding more.

Or in other words, we'll keep playing with the same factions untill we get bored of them ourselves, but we'll string you along with potential additions in possible futures.
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Wellplay
Wellplay


Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
posted September 06, 2014 05:29 PM

I on other hand like to see what happend in past before we move in to the future.

Cause without past we are nothing

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JeremiahEmo
JeremiahEmo


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted September 06, 2014 06:09 PM

LoL. Sylvan is 100x better than Sorceress and H4 Nature faction combined. I can't even play those factions without puking every 10 minutes.
Yes, that's how boring those factions are. I am glad they changed it to Sylvan. Rampart in H3 was ok but Sylvan is much better.


Now should Ashan be scrapped? Yes, absolutely. I never liked that LoRE anyway. The only good concept Ashan gave us was the racial factions. Elves, dwarves, wizards, humans and all the other races should remain. Then maybe change Dark Elves to another faction not elves like say... faceless. Yes, a race of faceless would be interesting. The rest of Ashan can leave.

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Avonu
Avonu


Promising
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted September 06, 2014 06:25 PM

LizardWarrior said:
Do you think Ashan should go to the trash can?

Yes, it should. Does it go there? Nope, no a chance as long as Ubisoft has MM franchise.
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 06, 2014 06:34 PM

Avonu said:
Yes, it should. Does it go there? Nope, no a chance as long as Ubisoft has MM franchise.

I think Erwan is a bigger roadblock then Ubisoft is.
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Avonu
Avonu


Promising
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted September 06, 2014 06:41 PM
Edited by Avonu at 18:46, 06 Sep 2014.

War-overlord said:
Avonu said:
Yes, it should. Does it go there? Nope, no a chance as long as Ubisoft has MM franchise.

I think Erwan is a bigger roadblock then Ubisoft is.

If only it was so simple... We had Ashan with H5, where Fabrice Cambounet was in charge. We have Ashan when Erwan Le Breton is in charge and I think we would have Ashan also if Marzhin would be in charge.
Ubisoft invest some money in creating Ashan lore and mythology (hiring Jeff Spock and Olivier Ledoit and other writers/artists) and won't just so simple throw all way just to created another setting (and pay another money).

ChrisD1 said:
is there an actual place where i can find why for instance tower has mages, nagas, gargoyles,gremlins and djinns what's their backround stories?how did they come up all together under a single town? why is it on a mountain? what's the faction's history?
i am not assuming there is not such a thing but is someone could point me out to a place like that it would be great. because since i don't know these kind of things ashan is making more sense to me now. way more sense.

HoMM3 manual said:
Wizards and Alchemists study their arcane craft in Towers. Tower populations are comprised of creatures bound into service by powerful magic, made on the spot, or allied with the town through ancient pacts.

As for faction history - it was told during Heroes Chronicles (Warlords of the Wastelands and Master of Elements) and in Might and Magic 7, where you could visit Bracada personaly.
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 06, 2014 06:53 PM

Avonu said:

If only it was so simple... We had Ashan with H5, where Fabrice Cambounet was in charge. We have Ashan when Erwan Le Breton is in charge and I think we would have Ashan also if Marzhin would be in charge.
Ubisoft invest some money in creating Ashan lore and mythology (hiring Jeff Spock and Olivier Ledoit and other writers/artists) and won't just so simple throw all way just to created another setting (and pay another money).

Cambounet might have been in charge of the Franchise at the time, but Erwan was the one coming up with the lore. Now Erwan is doing both.
As far as Marzhin goes, I'm not sure if he'd keep Ashan, but I'm sure he'd be a lot more flexible on things if he could.

As far as the investment goes, since they have to come up with story and art and whatever for every game anyway, I highly doubt that coming up with something new is that much more expensive. Sure the pre-production might need a few more meetings and some more time, but pre-prod isn't the biggest money sink. And I'm sure that if there was a way to convince the boardroom muckity-mucks that scrapping Ashan would result in a big sales-boost, they'd be shredding Compendiums right now.
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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted September 06, 2014 07:03 PM

War-overlord said:
.And I'm sure that if there was a way to convince the boardroom muckity-mucks that scrapping Ashan would result in a big sales-boost...


Would it? People complain a lot about Ashan here (including me sometimes), but that doesn't mean there isn't a whole big customer base out there that's accepting of Ashan, if not enthusiastically supporting it.

Besides whenever Ewrin makes references to the old Might and magic universe it doesn't make people happy. It may have been wrong to create Ashan, but attempts to bring back the old just makes the lore seem Schizophrenic.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 06, 2014 07:10 PM

Raelag84 said:

Would it? People complain a lot about Ashan here (including me sometimes), but that doesn't mean there isn't a whole big customer base out there that's accepting of Ashan, if not enthusiastically supporting it.

People not realy caring about the setting that much, that I can believe. But people defending Ashan is something you rarely see here, or on CH. Where are these people then?

Quote:
Besides whenever Ewrin makes references to the old Might and magic universe it doesn't make people happy. It may have been wrong to create Ashan, but attempts to bring back the old just makes the lore seem Schizophrenic.

Who ever said anything about going back?
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Iron from Ice.

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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted September 06, 2014 07:30 PM
Edited by TDL at 19:31, 06 Sep 2014.

To be honest, even though I won't stand as the representative of the fanbase of Ashan, I am a part of it and I am sure people are not too against it either. Most are just indifferent, others still beckon for H3 days.

No matter what you say about how they limited their options with Ashan, how they took an all-too-well-known approach to their lore, you should be thankful that the series did not go down the drain and you can still discuss about it so many years later. If we are stuck with Ashan, so be it -- now let's make the most of it.

The problem as I see it is that, in agreement with some of what you have said, they decided to do it as prequels. For one reason or another they decided to want to deify the free-choice ending of Dark Messiah so so much that they opted not to produce a canon sequel to that. They are so stubborn about upkeeping that legacy that they refuse to move on. Ashan's lore is amazing, you just have to actually take your time to read through some of it and then admit it. Yes, it is traditionally black and white with some gray patches in between, but in spite of all the race and timeline restrictions, we should be happy that the world itself feels vivid and has substance, to whatever extent may be for certain people.

However, they have the tools to improve the world by just moving on with it and trying to reinvigorate it. Back when we were talking about H5 expansions and future installments, there was an image of a cataclysmically altered Ashan floating about in the forums. It seemed semi-official, but noone went on to make use of it. I still remember people guessing if that is how the world will look like after Sareth's shenanigans...

I am too damn sure that you would forget your squabbles about boring dragon gods and canon races if so much as just one true change was brought to Ashan's landscape. Everything would benefit from it -- and I bet you would realize that there is still hope for this world in the right hands. They just need to harness their imagination and do it...

EDIT: Found the picture:



Admit it, if this happened -- with bunch of new stuff included, we'd see a decent improvement.
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 06, 2014 07:35 PM

That picture was from pre-alpha HeroesV, before They decided to scrap the old universe.
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Iron from Ice.

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Alex_Yakub
Alex_Yakub


Famous Hero
posted September 06, 2014 07:43 PM

I voted NO, because I say give Ashan a chance. It has a huge potential, and in fact is much more detailed than all previous Heroes worlds.
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