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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 19, 2014 11:24 PM |
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I hope Hunter is female and Druid and Blade Dancer is male
its so cliché with a female spellcaster
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted September 19, 2014 11:31 PM |
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xerox said:
its so cliché with a female spellcaster
Well, it's cliche, but for a Heroes game it would be sth new (apart from Hero units of course) and that's what I meant...
PS: Actually tell me what's not cliche in a fantasy game? A transvestite Druid?
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted September 19, 2014 11:54 PM |
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community have spoken about this before, that we dont want blue themed phoenix. im really heart broken now. people who say phoenix not fitting in sylvan is now justified in my eyes. i see no connection between light & nature. therefor same goes for the sun deer.
light-sprit? really? is this the kind of phoenix i get? its like a joke, feels like a haven spy in sylvan. i am angry! also i have to say that im shocked to see that phoenix almost got no change from h6 design. every creature gets fresh look but when it comes to phoenix it goes like this? "duhhh, lets just use same h6 blue phoenix"
i just changed my vote to stregth, unicorn is even better then i had dreamed of and is looking like the most connected one to the nature. i dont care if streght has %22.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted September 19, 2014 11:58 PM |
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The deer unit has nothing to do with nature? Right okay... whatever you say. I can understand the phoenix its outright stated they are connected with Asha.
Still goooo fury! Oh and balanced dropped by 2%. So its 22%/38%/40%
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 12:07 AM |
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Edited by Royin at 00:08, 20 Sep 2014.
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jhb said:
War-overlord said:
Alex_Yakub said:
ALL IS BETTER THAN FURY!!!
Hear! Hear!
Why ? o.O I'm starting to think this word "fury" is what is bothering you, people.
The name doesn't bother me at all. I could make a list of what bothers me about Fury though.
- "Offensive" Orientation; This line-up states it hits fast and hits hard. Which is fine, I'm sure an offensive-oriented Stronghold like faction can do the job. However it's not always the strongest who win.
This is probably my biggest issue with Fury. It states that its offensive but I just don't see it back in the line-up. I honestly feel that this strategy on its own is really one-dimensional and looking at the units itself; they won't always 'strike fast and strike hard' because hardly any of the units have a means of getting close to their opponent with ease. Offense = more raw power in exchange for less defense. If the units struggle to get to their target they'll be frail sitting ducks.
And now you might say "But the Treant/Dryad combo is super-tanky!" Good for them! Doesn't make them high-priority targets. You can probably take out Fury's army by nuking them 1 by 1 as that seems to be the strategy... Go fast and go hard, 1 by 1. Which leads me to my next point
- The Deer; "Fast damage dealer with supporting abilities" true to the offensive nature of this line-up. This really feels like a kamikaze-unit. Leaves all his buddies behind to hit 1 target, proceeds to get nuked because you have to wait for the rest of the team to catch up.
- Blade Dancers; They're aesthetically pleasing in the sense that they look cool but that's where it ends. Look at them from an objective point of view and you'll see that their splash damage essentially makes them Mini-Hydras. This might seem good on paper but in reality very little situations will come up where this ability will come to good use. You also have to wonder if it might backfire on yourself if an allied unit is standing a little too close.
- Dryad/Treant synergy; The idea is nice but the synergy comes rather late in the game. These 2 units need eachother and this is a problem. I'd rather have 1 dedicated tank unit and cast Regeneration on it than have a tank duo who take up 2 unit slots.
But it doesn't end here. Treant is a Champion unit. Which means picking the Dragon won't utilize the faction's maximum potential and picking Treant means having the DryadxTreant romance bloom but being stuck with a Champion that, judging by previous installments, is going to be tanky and slow before hitting fast and hitting hard which is apparently what this faction is going to be all about.
The main point I'm trying to make is that Fury might seem like this great offensive army but if you look beyond the "wow cool wow" attack/offense description the devs give, you find out that that's far from the truth. It is offensive but the synergy is so poor that it will be poorly executed.
Feel free to bring in counter-arguments to my points. I'd prefer it if it did not include any of the following words:
1. Blue
2. Bird(s)
3. Snake(s)
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CanWakhan
Hired Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 12:10 AM |
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Brukernavn said:
With Fury you basically have one tactic - attack as hard as you can and hope as few as possible survive. I understand people want an offensive Sylvian, but as Marzhin said, all lineups will play as Sylvian, so I prefer more tactical options.
I'm quiet concerned about Fury tactic too. If you have to hope to deal massive amount of damage to not lose major number of your creatures then something is wrong. I can't imagine fighting with orcs while using Fury's tactics. And what if you can't strike first or that quick as you would like? Battlefield could have many obstacle making movements far more difficult.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 12:13 AM |
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Edited by lokdron at 00:17, 20 Sep 2014.
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Well you cannot forget that people are voting for the lines ups for different reasons. Some people prefer the all out offensive play style and the strategy involving keeping said units alive as well. We can't say much about how good they are gameplay wise until we see all the functions in the game.
How has the skills changed? The magic? The heroes? The factions special ability? Plus the war engine units how have they changed? Do they have any new functions? How far can these units move? What are their stats, plus have they been changed since previous games?
There are people voting in all three options for either the looks or for its gameplay style. Just because you dislike said gameplay style does not make it less valid than the other options.
Lets not forget that there are people who wanted fortress in don't want sylvan stepping on the dwarves toes of a defensive playstyle. There are many factors on why fury is winning.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 12:25 AM |
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Edited by jhb at 05:11, 20 Sep 2014.
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Royin said:
jhb said:
War-overlord said:
Alex_Yakub said:
ALL IS BETTER THAN FURY!!!
Hear! Hear!
Why ? o.O I'm starting to think this word "fury" is what is bothering you, people.
The name doesn't bother me at all. I could make a list of what bothers me about Fury though.
- "Offensive" Orientation; This line-up states it hits fast and hits hard. Which is fine, I'm sure an offensive-oriented Stronghold like faction can do the job. However it's not always the strongest who win.
This is probably my biggest issue with Fury. It states that its offensive but I just don't see it back in the line-up. I honestly feel that this strategy on its own is really one-dimensional and looking at the units itself; they won't always 'strike fast and strike hard' because hardly any of the units have a means of getting close to their opponent with ease. Offense = more raw power in exchange for less defense. If the units struggle to get to their target they'll be frail sitting ducks.
And now you might say "But the Treant/Dryad combo is super-tanky!" Good for them! Doesn't make them high-priority targets. You can probably take out Fury's army by nuking them 1 by 1 as that seems to be the strategy... Go fast and go hard, 1 by 1. Which leads me to my next point
- The Deer; "Fast damage dealer with supporting abilities" true to the offensive nature of this line-up. This really feels like a kamikaze-unit. Leaves all his buddies behind to hit 1 target, proceeds to get nuked because you have to wait for the rest of the team to catch up.
- Blade Dancers; They're aesthetically pleasing in the sense that they look cool but that's where it ends. Look at them from an objective point of view and you'll see that their splash damage essentially makes them Mini-Hydras. This might seem good on paper but in reality very little situations will come up where this ability will come to good use. You also have to wonder if it might backfire on yourself if an allied unit is standing a little too close.
- Dryad/Treant synergy; The idea is nice but the synergy comes rather late in the game. These 2 units need eachother and this is a problem. I'd rather have 1 dedicated tank unit and cast Regeneration on it than have a tank duo who take up 2 unit slots.
But it doesn't end here. Treant is a Champion unit. Which means picking the Dragon won't utilize the faction's maximum potential and picking Treant means having the DryadxTreant romance bloom but being stuck with a Champion that, judging by previous installments, is going to be tanky and slow before hitting fast and hitting hard which is apparently what this faction is going to be all about.
The main point I'm trying to make is that Fury might seem like this great offensive army but if you look beyond the "wow cool wow" attack/offense description the devs give, you find out that that's far from the truth. It is offensive but the synergy is so poor that it will be poorly executed.
Feel free to bring in counter-arguments to my points. I'd prefer it if it did not include any of the following words:
1. Blue
2. Bird(s)
3. Snake(s)
Well, since the beginning my vote is going for what I think fits better in the Sylvan Theme. Like I said before I think is TOO EARLY to discuss strategy and tactics, because most of the arguments would be based on conjectures and speculation. Let me copy my post where is what I think would be the general lines of Sylvan gameplay:
jhb said:
ChrisD1 said:
every possible line-up will have weaknesses and strengths. none of them is PERFECT. since nothing in this world is perfect. everything has pros and cons.
Again, I have to agree with you, ChrisD1. I think this magical word "balance" is confusing people a little bit. All faction will probably have pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses. 
Sleeping_Sun said:
I considered Fury at the beginning, but I ultimately decided in the favour of Balance. That doesn't mean I hate Fury or something like that, I just like to choose play style I want (which is possible in Balance and Strength in my opinion), rather than being forced to just play offensively in Fury build. Pure offence is Orc thing. Whatever option wins, I'm still happy 'cause I'll have Unicorns, Phoenix or Deer.
I am not sure if it has anything to do with units, because if we consider the units separately it would be a different story. Even though I defended Snake in Balance, I agree with someone who said that this unit is more suitable for swamp faction...
I understand you way of thinking my friend, but if we consider that offence is a orc thing and defence is a heaven/human thing, what would be left for the rest of factions? 
Even if elves are more inclined to an offensive or defensive line, I doubt they will play like orcs or humans. I think one characteristic they will have, no matter which lineup wins, is an overall high initiative and good shooters.
In fact, I'm guessing the Fury line would have a lot of similarities to H6 sanctuary (w/ magic hero), which means strong shooters, high initiative, synergies and some battle field control.
And by the way, Sanctuary also had ZERO flyers and was one of my favorites from H6.
- Sanctuary had chilling and freezing abilities, Sylvan will have rooting.
- Sanctuary had 2 good shooters (1 core, 1 elite), Sylvan will have hunters and druids. The elite shooter had a chilling attack and Ice Shards, which was basically an ice trap for chilling and damage. Druid will be a saboteur with entangling abilities.
- Sanctuary had Spirit Bond and Lifeguard Membrane from water spirits, Sylvan (Fury or Strength) will have Symbiosis and something more I guess.
- Sanctuary had Trail of Clouds from Sacred Kirin, a very tactical ability which could carry the whole team or could block (root) enemy walkers. I don't think Sylvan will have something like this, the "carry everything" suits more a water theme, imo. But who knows. Deers will bring something.
As we can see, special abilities make a HUGE difference. I think Sylvan would follow the general lines of Sanctuary.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 12:46 AM |
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Royin said:
Feel free to bring in counter-arguments to my points. I'd prefer it if it did not include any of the following words:
1. Blue
2. Bird(s)
3. Snake(s)
i won't argue with you because you searched through the mmh7 site random posts,reading between the lines, just to try to prove that fury is cheating.
it is so unbelievable for you to think that the thing YOU don't like, might be more popular.
but you never wondered if balance cheats because it was YOUR choice so nobody would cheat, everybody loves balance right?
you are extremely close-minded and no reasonable argument in the world would make you see something further than your own nose.
and why would someone bring you counter arguments under YOUR terms? who do you think you are exactly?
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 01:25 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Royin said:
Feel free to bring in counter-arguments to my points. I'd prefer it if it did not include any of the following words:
1. Blue
2. Bird(s)
3. Snake(s)
i won't argue with you because you searched through the mmh7 site random posts,reading between the lines, just to try to prove that fury is cheating.
Forgive me for sharing what I found on the voting page.
ChrisD1 said:
it is so unbelievable for you to think that the thing YOU don't like, might be more popular.
I am trying to give you a different point of view by zooming in on what the units essentially are. I see that instead of trying to bring counterarguments to my points you chose to attack me as a person, this does in no way prove me wrong of anything.
ChrisD1 said:
but you never wondered if balance cheats because it was YOUR choice so nobody would cheat, everybody loves balance right?
I never stated that anyone cheated. I posted an example of a 'grief vote', which I found odd.
ChrisD1 said:
you are extremely close-minded and no reasonable argument in the world would make you see something further than your own nose.
Try me, as I stated before I'm open to your reasonable arguments. Mind you I'd prefer it if you'd stop attacking me personally, this is a fallacy.
ChrisD1 said:
and why would someone bring you counter arguments under YOUR terms? who do you think you are exactly?
I merely joked about not using the words blue, bird and snake because that's pretty much every argument that I'm getting back so far. I wanted to see other sides to the stories, such as your own, which is generally what a debate/discussion hopes to achieve; insight.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 10:22 AM |
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Royin said:
Sorry i attacked you like that. I didn't take time to read your post about the image you uploaded.then i saw the post after you saying "that's the perfect example of fury voters" and i got enraged and thought you actually said the same thing. This attack should be directed to that person. Not you.
I you want to see nice counter-arguments why fury is awesome,scroll back to this thread,me and stevie have said very logical stuff without mostly diminishing balance.
Again sorry for the distress i might have caused :-$
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 10:52 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Royin said:
Sorry i attacked you like that. I didn't take time to read your post about the image you uploaded.then i saw the post after you saying "that's the perfect example of fury voters" and i got enraged and thought you actually said the same thing. This attack should be directed to that person. Not you.
I you want to see nice counter-arguments why fury is awesome,scroll back to this thread,me and stevie have said very logical stuff without mostly diminishing balance.
Again sorry for the distress i might have caused :-$
<3<3<3
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:02 AM |
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flonembourg said:
lokdron said:
Yeah I think its the blade dancer and the fact that phoenix has nothing to do with Sylvan that people are changing their votes.
But KEEP IN MIND it is just Artworks and maybe the bladedancer in the game will be totally different and you will not like him that much...
Fury the winner what a surprise! totally different from the vote in this thread!
Strange.... very strange!
not strange at all. The voters in this thread is less than a hundred. The one in Ubi is probably more than a thousand. That's less than 10% of the total voters.
(So I guess you know where Strength voters are coming from). 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:12 AM |
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flonembourg said:
lokdron said:
But KEEP IN MIND it is just Artworks and maybe the bladedancer in the game will be totally different and you will not like him that much...
Fury the winner what a surprise! totally different from the vote in this thread!
Strange.... very strange!
the blade dancer concept is way too complete,solid,finished, that they certainly are not going to change it into something "completely differet". this blade dancer got so much love that they will not change it AT ALL.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 20, 2014 12:02 PM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
not strange at all. The voters in this thread is less than a hundred. The one in Ubi is probably more than a thousand. That's less than 10% of the total voters.
(So I guess you know where Strength voters are coming from).
Much more significantly, people can change their vote on Ubi forum, not here. There's good reason to believe that many people who voted Strength early later changed their vote (probably for a number of different reasons).
ChrisD1 said:
the blade dancer concept is way too complete,solid,finished, that they certainly are not going to change it into something "completely differet". this blade dancer got so much love that they will not change it AT ALL.
True, but even if this IS the final artstyle that they decide to aim for, that's not a guarantee that the in-game model will look exactly like this, transforming a 2D painted picture into a 3D model is never a 1:1 process.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 12:11 PM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 12:12, 20 Sep 2014.
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alcibiades said:
True, but even if this IS the final artstyle that they decide to aim for, that's not a guarantee that the in-game model will look exactly like this, transforming a 2D painted picture into a 3D model is never a 1:1 process.
not exactly the same i accept that, but i am tired seeing people trying to degrade the blade dancer saying it will look completely different and that this artwork is something basic.
where were those people when the horrid dryad arwork was released? no one defended them saying that it might look completely different.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 20, 2014 12:19 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
not exactly the same i accept that, but i am tired seeing people trying to degrade the blade dancer saying it will look completely different and that this artwork is something basic.
where were those people when the horrid dryad arwork was released? no one defended them saying that it might look completely different.
People need to love something first.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 20, 2014 12:22 PM |
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Well I agree with your point, but it has to be said, that I think the whole concept depicted in the Dryad - not just the exact details of how the picture looks, but the overall idea - is pretty uninspiring if you ask me: Some sort of "spirit" that look like a female elf, with a long rope that will somehow merge into the grass or whatever. Pretty boring in itself, and even worse now that we have an image of a female druid that looks very similar in style!
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Doomhammer
Known Hero
Smasher of pasties
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posted September 20, 2014 12:25 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Well I agree with your point, but it has to be said, that I think the whole concept depicted in the Dryad - not just the exact details of how the picture looks, but the overall idea - is pretty uninspiring if you ask me: Some sort of "spirit" that look like a female elf, with a long rope that will somehow merge into the grass or whatever. Pretty boring in itself, and even worse now that we have an image of a female druid that looks very similar in style!
+1
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 20, 2014 12:56 PM |
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Edited by blizz at 12:56, 20 Sep 2014.
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alcibiades said:
Well I agree with your point, but it has to be said, that I think the whole concept depicted in the Dryad - not just the exact details of how the picture looks, but the overall idea - is pretty uninspiring if you ask me: Some sort of "spirit" that look like a female elf, with a long rope that will somehow merge into the grass or whatever. Pretty boring in itself, and even worse now that we have an image of a female druid that looks very similar in style!
I agree Dryad concept is uninspiring from the get go. Seems like they just needed a way to incorporate female elf into the line-up.
I also doubt blade dancer will look anything like that art. It seems too savage for a Sylvan elf almost better fitting for Dungeon and I expect the final version to be closer to H5.
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This thread is pages long: 
