|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:12 PM |
|
|
VOKIALBG said:
Gameplay < Lore and creativity.
Why? Because is someone dont like the elves gameplay, he can switch to another race, or if he care more about gameplay, he dont mind the creatures. So we must first fallow the HoMM traditions.
For me gameplay comes first. If lore is snow and creatures are not that original I can survive. But a game with 0 gameplay value and no replayability can't.
As for the tradition, in the Ubi period we have Heroes V where Sylvan has an aggressive playstyle. Glass cannon. Even the devs said in the Sylvan vs Fortress vote what Elves are supposed to be about  They hate a stand-up fight and prefer guerilla tactics.
Hate stand-up fight + prefer guerilla tactics = Sylvan.
Anything other than that is not Sylvan. The only thing swaying the votes in favor of Strength and Balance is pure nostalgia over Unicorns and Phoenixes. I have not seen one single argument about playstyle that describes Sylvan better than Fury.
|
|
Danny
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:15 PM |
|
|
Nice to see Unicorns at 3rd place now...
|
|
blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:16 PM |
|
Edited by blizz at 14:18, 14 Sep 2014.
|
The Sylvan play style won't change drastically with each lineup. Sylvan will still be offensive orientated, Marzhin said that. People are taking these descriptions way too serious.
Anyway if Fury does get into the lead I will change my original vote to balance. Anything to avoid the most boring and uninspired lineup Sylvan ever had.
|
|
VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:16 PM |
|
|
So you can now leave us to chose the line-up. You dont care about the creatures, you want game play. You have 6 races to chose after the game is ready. And changing one line-up to wow copy... well this may run the whole feeling about the game. People that care about creatures and lore like me, dont mind the gameplay that much, people that mind the gameplay, dont mind the creatures. Thats why lore is more important, changing it wont have people like you, but only players like me. And changing the lore to a crappy one is more harmful for the game. PPl that dont like defensive Sylvan, can go play offencive with Stronghold, since they dont care if they play with orcs or elves.
____________
|
|
ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:31 PM |
|
|
blizz said:
Anyway if Fury does get into the lead I will change my original vote to balance. Anything to avoid the most boring and uninspired lineup Sylvan ever had.
you confuse "iconic" with "boring".
we need iconic sylvan since it was missing in H6.
it's not a faction that we see EVERYTIME (like haven) that it needs changing and innovation.
|
|
fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:31 PM |
|
|
|
How is changeing from unicorn to deer and from emerald warrior(elf) to blade dancer(elf) messing with the lore? it has absolutely nothing to do with it...
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:32 PM |
|
|
blizz said:
The Sylvan play style won't change drastically with each lineup. Sylvan will still be offensive orientated, Marzhin said that. People are taking these descriptions way too serious.
QFT.
Essentially it is about the creatures. And hence it is Strenght of the Forest all the way 
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
|
|
RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 02:54 PM |
|
|
VOKIALBG said:
So you can now leave us to chose the line-up. You dont care about the creatures, you want game play. You have 6 races to chose after the game is ready. And changing one line-up to wow copy... well this may run the whole feeling about the game. People that care about creatures and lore like me, dont mind the gameplay that much, people that mind the gameplay, dont mind the creatures. Thats why lore is more important, changing it wont have people like you, but only players like me. And changing the lore to a crappy one is more harmful for the game. PPl that dont like defensive Sylvan, can go play offencive with Stronghold, since they dont care if they play with orcs or elves.
Creature line-ups are connected to the gameplay, and I am pretty sure that majority of Heroes players care more about the gameplay than about lore that is already f*cked up.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
|
|
JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 03:02 PM |
|
|
leiah2 said:
I'd love that if Fury wins, they will have Female druid, Male Blade Dancer and Male Hunter
I'd rather have Male Druid, Male Blade Dancer and Male Hunter.
|
|
DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 03:10 PM |
|
Edited by DarkLord at 15:18, 14 Sep 2014.
|
    
  
whoever voted for fury, have a look
a bit too warcraft-ish isnt it??
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 03:25 PM |
|
|
Protolisk said:
alcibiades said:
Stevie said:
Balance has the lead again, thank the heavens.
Meh, I can't for the life of me understand why you are so excited about the Balance line-up.
- No Unicorn
- Phoenix (Moonix) which is basically a replica of Magic Bird (lol) in Academy
- Treant guaranteed in line-up (which is fine) but it's the only line-up without the Dryad who has synergy with the Treant (wtf?)
It's just not a stellar solution at all for me.
It does however have
-Pixie, which is a much needed no-retaliation flyer
-Lack of Dryad, which seemingly only has use if you pick Treant as champion, so if Dragon was chosen, Dryads seem out of luck. (I do agree with your wtf. Why would the only time Treants are mandatory are their support gone?)
-Phoenix (moonix doesn't really matter, it's a resurrecting bird) as a flying champion, which the other choices don't have.
Although the phoenix would look similar to "Magic Bird" (is that really the final name? I doubt this, but if so, darn) it'd still be better than H5's Green/Shadow/Bone dragons looking extremely similar (I give Fire Dragon a pass because, wow, it didn't look like the other dragons. And it reminded me of Godzilla.)
I keep switching my vote between Balance and Strength. If they keep revealing stuff about each unit before the vote timer ends, I would feel so much better about voting. Voting without all the facts = a flawed vote.
Great points 
It's not stated enough that the Dryad-Treant combo basically forces you to always pick the same champ (Treant) since Dryads would be much less useful without treants...very bad design choice, if they had kept Treants as Elite it'd make sense.
alcibiades said:
H4 is never really a good argument FOR something anyway.
I heartly disagree. I haven't played more than 20 turns in a RL year of Heroes IV since 2007 or so, but I still I can appreciate its excellent campaigns, its beautiful music, the great Magic System and some great ideas there too. Many H4 ideas were bad or badly implemented, but the game still has some great ideas that people overlook. And it's sad
____________
|
|
Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 03:53 PM |
bonus applied by Elvin on 25 Sep 2014. |
|
Something I have been seeing more of is people spouting "Guerrilla" and similar. And, I am confused. Guerrilla isn't just "speed speed speed assault". This is but a part of it.
Guerrilla warfare is typically done through a small group of units using tactics involving ambush, sabotage, raiding, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility to defeat a larger, slower force. And if people think that only Sylanna's Fury fits that definition, they'd be largely misinformed.
Units in these line ups that befit fast attacks that slower units can't keep up with would include pixies, the Emerald warrior, and perhaps the Blade dancer (strike multiple units). My problem with this is that, as some one else said, Sylvan "Doesn't like a stand up fight". Blade dancers, although they seem to get attack many people at once, would still be in the line of fire from their primary target. They'd be in such a stand up fight. They have Pixies, sure, which get no retaliation, but so does Balance. Meanwhile, the Emerald Warrior strikes and returns, avoiding a counter attack. This is basically the definition of hit and run: they hit, and then they run so that they cannot be harmed.
Also, the Root Python. Go back to that page, and look up their description. "Super fast" are the first words, followed quickly by "saboteur." Those two things are primary characteristics for a guerrilla warfare unit.
Finally, both the champions in Sylanna's Fury (and Strength) have been stated to be walkers, one having, in their words, "average move range". The other is a giant tree, and trees, even fantasy ones, aren't known for their trail blazing. However, the Phoenix is a flying unit, which tend to have a better move speed, as well as dealing damage. Does this not sound like what could be a "guerrilla" unit in the highly powerful champion spot?
Although yes, Sylanna's fury does have some merit, and it is unknown to what degree the Deer's abilities are, but Blade Dancer+Pixie+Deer is only three fast attack units, if you can even count the Blade Dancer as fast. Earth's balance seems to have Python+pixie+Emerlad warrior+phoenix, with three known fast units, and a possible fourth, with both line ups having the same shooters, and both having the slow and "average" treant and dragon. Dryads aren't known for their combat speed or offensive ability, and if it is healing, doesn't that make it a defensive choice, and non-offensive?
As much as it seems to be, I am pretty sure Earth's Balance has more of the such sought after "guerrilla" tactics people have been asking for.
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 04:06 PM |
|
|
red_flag said:
so emerald warriors and blade dancers might be the same unit, but with different abilities?
|
|
Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 04:18 PM |
|
|
31%-35%-34% This is getting quite exiting. Although I think this type of voting will leave a lot of players with disatisfaction, because a lot of people don't like Fury (I do) and this only causes the fanbase to be more divided.
Edit: 30%-36%-34% now.
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 04:19 PM |
|
|
|
this is a known flaw with this kind of vote, that the winner may actually be hated by the majority of voters.
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 04:32 PM |
|
|
Weird to see Strength third, but it's great to have Balance on top 
____________
|
|
DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 04:38 PM |
|
Edited by DarkLord at 16:39, 14 Sep 2014.
|
Don't understand how people are ready to ditch Unicorns for Flaming chicken and Bumbee Deers
well, so many people, so many opinions probably..
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 04:50 PM |
|
|
DarkLord said:
Don't understand how people are ready to ditch Unicorns for Flaming chicken and Bumbee Deers
People don't want gay horses in game
____________
|
|
Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 04:56 PM |
|
|
DarkLord said:
Don't understand how people are ready to ditch Unicorns for Flaming chicken and Bumbee Deers
well, so many people, so many opinions probably..
Well, I dunno about Bumbee Deers, but I kinda like Flaming Chickens if they aren't actually "on fire" (and if they are "Moonix" (god what a dumb name people come up with)they most likely will be magically "on fire" when they rebirth, but pose no threat to actually being continually on fire.) Dragons are the same principal: They don't actually "breathe fire", but can shoot it out if they decide to; it's not a continual thing. (Although perhaps in H7, these Green Dragons breathe acid, or maybe nothing at all?  )
Also, why would you ditch a flaming chicken for a horse? Don't we have enough people, be they heroes or those Cavaliers, riding horses already that we need an un-ridden horse? 
|
|
Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
|
|
posted September 14, 2014 05:04 PM |
|
|
Storm-Giant said:
DarkLord said:
Don't understand how people are ready to ditch Unicorns for Flaming chicken and Bumbee Deers
People don't want gay horses in game
SO they take Copy pastes and Gay dancers?
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
