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| Thread: Women in heroes 7 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV |
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted April 12, 2015 11:03 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 11:32, 12 Apr 2015.
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kiryu133 said:
and yes, there are. strength, aggressiveness etc are culturally masculine traits just as nurturing and kindness are feminine. if you are aggressive, strong or similar you are masculine. if you are kind and nurturing and such you are feminine. in a cultural sense so to speak. the dragons are very much defined by traits seen as feminine/masculine and gendered as such. not huge deal (and it doesn't really matter a whole lot since that's not what this thread is about) but saying it's not a thing is very much wrong.
Yes, but those were not the traits you listed honor, duty, freedom, adaptability, life, and knowledge are a whole lot less linked to biology, with the exception of life I am unsure how these traits could be considered gender linked.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 12, 2015 12:22 PM |
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cultural, not biological.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted April 12, 2015 11:21 PM |
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Culture is not constant any given culture could assign values like honor to any gender.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 12, 2015 11:30 PM |
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well it's clearly presenting western values
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted April 12, 2015 11:33 PM |
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Then should have put western in front of masculine and feminine respectively so it would not come across as an universal representation.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 12, 2015 11:38 PM |
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huh, thought that was pretty obvious. oh well, i'll keep that in mind 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted April 13, 2015 01:30 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 13:37, 13 Apr 2015.
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kiryu133 said:
X chromosomes are are female while Y chromosomes are male, sorta. females have X/X and males have X/Y, effectively making them half female. though i believe there are cases of Y/Y chromosomes but they are very, very rare though possible.
I would find this hard to believe, actually. The cell provided by the mother only contains one string of X chromosomes, while the sperm cell delivers either an X chromosome or a Y chromosome (which is the reason you can distinguish between the two and speak of a male sperm cell and a female sperm cell - they even have slightly different characteristics; the male ones are somewhat faster, the female ones live longer).
The end result would always be XX or XY. The occurence of a YY would be impossible, as the woman never presents it in her egg cell (she has none of those Y chromosomes to begin with!) so the only way for this to happen is if somehow the X chromose gets replaced or discarded and at the same time another sperm cell enters through the membrane, or the one already there is suddenly spliced. Either of these seem highly unlikely and I wonder if a being with only an YY pair can even survive.
Edit: More precise, the X chromosome contains a number of genes that do not occur on the Y-chromosome, but yet are essential for survival of the individual. Sometimes deformations can result in a triplet instead of doublet, being XYY, which is a genetical syndrom. The result, in all cases, is a male by virtue of presence of a Y chromosome.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2015 03:20 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
X chromosomes are are female while Y chromosomes are male, sorta. females have X/X and males have X/Y, effectively making them half female. though i believe there are cases of Y/Y chromosomes but they are very, very rare though possible.
Just a minor thing, but, not all gendered animals use the XY system. In fact, many birds, along with a few other species, use a ZW system, and the more interesting case is that male birds are ZZ and females are ZW. The Z is larger than the W, much like the X being larger than the Y, except for that being male is the homogametic sex, females the heterogametc, backwards from us and other animals. For them, being male is the "default", since all of such birds have a Z chromosome, and females are alf "male" in that case.
In various other creatures, simply having a Y does not a male make. Some simply need a single X to be male, 2 for female, with no other chromosome at all. Some are based on a ratio, where as long as they have equal or greater number of Y, they are male (those these are rare, and tend to not breed well, but still occur).
Just because humans and mammals are XY, doesn't mean everything is.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 13, 2015 06:05 PM |
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guys, the bit about chromosomes and stuff was heavily simplified and was only supposed to describe humans (i have no idea about others. have heard about the XYY thing though).
that said, interesting stuff. appreciate it, especially the bird bit  
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2015 07:35 PM |
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There's also another thing between, that further complicates stuff between male and female. Some call it "diference between sex and gender". What this basicaly means, is that altho some individual is female, and have X/X chromosome, that individual "feels" like she should be male instead. That basicaly means, that even tho, the body of a person has all female characteristics, even the chromosomes, that basicaly make this happen, that person's "gender" would actualy be male. With proper hormon treatment from young age, the preson can develop like a male, even tho "he" has been born as a female.
You have This and This examples for both sexes.
How is this possible, regardless of chromosomes? I don't know. But I would say this shows me that NO, a "genderless" human would not look "75%" like a female. It's just a speculation. And I'm sceptical about it. We just don't know. Humans develop through evolution, and ofcourse I would presume that when fighting between themselves and other species for survival would require to develop robust and muscular phisyque. If you look at animal kingdom, in majority of cases the male (majority in ... not in all cases) part of the spiecies is more adapted to fight and is therefore bigger and more musculary built and also have more aggressive behaviour. They are protective of their territory and such - not just females for example. They are more competitive in genral, towards other males ofc. While those with female genes, tend to be more protective to the offspring and agre in general smaller in statue. This is also the reason why through human history, men have been fighting in wars and not much women, tho there were exceptions. In those times, the nature of warfare was dependant on physycal strenght much more than today. Weapons are generaly equilizers, and with today's technology, a trained woman can be as deadly soldier as a trained man, while in ancinet times this wasn't the case. (tho they still trained in martial arts, because they needed to protect families and village, while men were away, and some were quite good at it). But that's another discussion.
So how would genderless individual look? Hard to tell. If it's warmongering society (like Angels), I would say quite robust and muscular, and not very feminine. But we don't know.
Anyway this conversation is way to deep for Ashan. Like I said. If discussing Angels, it's difficult enough question about their diet! 
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GMnemonic
Hired Hero
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posted April 27, 2015 03:42 AM |
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If a race has no females, how do they haev children? Maybe all nations at war capture the virgins of the opposing party. This would actually make a nice mechanic for creature pools..
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 27, 2015 08:54 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
interesting stuff to discuss, certainly, but i'm not sure this is the thread for it. seems more like "other side" stuff. it's gotten a bit off-topic as it is as this stuff was just to point out a small detail that could help in bringing out gender diversity. (sorry for long wait, got distracted/bored)
GMnemonic said:
If a race has no females, how do they haev children? Maybe all nations at war capture the virgins of the opposing party. This would actually make a nice mechanic for creature pools..
This thread was more about how female creatures are presented through lineups and what that can say about the faction/game. for example, the the lack of any other female creatures in haven tells us that the one we have is "special" because of her gender. Whether there are even female orcs is not the question but why they can't be represented respectfully through in-game units. your suggestion though... no, just no. way too many implications with that.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 27, 2015 10:09 PM |
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but they ARE special for being female, lorewise.
Quote:
“Elrathian psalms are very clear about the fact men and women are equal under the Holy Light, but in the old times Guardians of the Faith were mostly men. That is, until Irina of the Wolf started to reform her Duchy’s military…”
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 27, 2015 10:12 PM |
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i'll admit it's a bit on the nose (and them being special is as previously stated numerous times a problem) but Pffsh, flavourtext shmavourshlext.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 03:07 AM |
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I dont think that a female unit in the faction based in medieval europe being special is "problematic". If it was done without any flavor text yes, but since it isnt, it adds further depth to the Ashan. Specifically it showcases how Haven's behavior toward genders and the roles they fullfull in society
On the other hand, i dont expect to change your mind since you just care about potential offenses or problems without caring at all about context and i only write this because i enjoy making the 90% of this forum look dumb.
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raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted May 03, 2015 11:58 PM |
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Edited by raenus at 00:11, 04 May 2015.
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I have been binge reading the snow out of this site and I can assure you, Genya, that the only thing you are doing is making yourself look 90% smartash, 10% know it all. Even when I agree with you you make me want to change my views just to separate myself from the rose-smelling manure you spew.
This subject, like so many others, comes down to personal taste. There is no be all, end all answer. MMH7 is still much better than the fiasco that HoMM5's Dungeon was.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted May 04, 2015 01:41 AM |
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I am a know-it-all smartass lol. If that bothers you enough to want you to change your mind to the "special" side of the spectrum be my guest.
But this topic is not about me, so i'd recomend any further comments to be pmed where they shall be ignored :3
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