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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: The lore thread
Thread: The lore thread This thread is 43 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 39 40 41 42 43 · «PREV
Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted April 05, 2017 12:22 AM

Sligneris said:
Did Raelag even realize he had a soulless, amnesiac husk as a partner?
Even if he did I doubt he was well written enough to care.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 05, 2017 01:24 AM
Edited by Sligneris at 01:24, 05 Apr 2017.

Honestly, it would be neat if Ubi revisited H5's story somehow in the form of a comic book or a novel perhaps. It'd allow them to revise it, better account for the current, more developed lore and put its writing somewhere higher than grade school level.

Even though it wouldn't change much, and the storyline would stay pretty much the same, anything would be better than the constant reminders of Asha using all eternal griffins.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chinerwin Syndrome
posted April 05, 2017 01:51 AM

to be honest better to focus attention on whatever is already good and warrants one's time than to waste talent trying to redeem something that is crap, after all one could rewrite Twilight into a Great American Novel for the Ages if one was bothered but it is a false endeavor as it does not really earn or deserve the energy and resources in the first place lol

plus bear in mind only Heroes 1-4 and Chronicles are canon Heroes games cheers lol
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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted April 05, 2017 10:43 AM

Twilight wouldn't be nearly as popular if it was actually good.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rebirth aanytime now..
posted April 05, 2017 04:00 PM

That's actually a good point. Most of the times I've seen it mentioned were about ridiculing than praising it.
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Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment!

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 05, 2017 09:47 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 21:50, 05 Apr 2017.

So, another question. How much exactly do we know about Sar-Shazzar? He gets name-dropped a lot, but he's such a strangely mysterious figure. It seems that people in-universe know very well who he was, but we get to know only a few things.

We know he was one of Sar-Elam's disciples, we know that he was Belketh's mentor, we know that he delivered the prophecy of the Demon Messiah, and that he then died in his sleep... and if memory serves, someone in Heroes 7 considered him creepy. But that's very little information to give us any picture of his character.

Has there really been nothing more said about him?

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted April 05, 2017 10:55 PM

...he wa corrupted by Chaos and it was he, who sabotaged Sar-Elam's ritual to seal demons in Sheogh forever. Oh, and he was a founder of Academy faction.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 05, 2017 11:41 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 04:27, 06 Apr 2017.

Oh, he did? I did faintly remember something about him sabotaging the ritual, but I wasn't sure if that was really the case. Are there any texts on his betrayal?

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted April 06, 2017 09:38 AM

Yes, they are.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 06, 2017 10:32 AM
Edited by Sligneris at 10:33, 06 Apr 2017.

I mean, I'd have expected you to tell me where, or post them.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chinerwin Syndrome
posted September 15, 2017 01:18 PM

we have in the other thread had this discussion and with Galaad requested for future posts to go here, but to accommodate any who suffer a reading impairment (such as my mate Edmund or my dog who reads my posts lol) I have taken it upon my own bat to proactively transfer over the posts cheers lol

fred79 said:
i was never a fan of the original h3 angels; they never looked right, to me. being that the kreegans aren't actually from Hell, it doesn't make sense to have angels in the game(and even moreso, a hatred between the creatures. you would think an angel, of all creatures, would KNOW if a creature was from Hell or not, lol. and thus, logically have a reason to hate them).


Galaad said:
I am still convinced they are cyborgs.


NimoStar said:
Actually aren't angels ancient robots made to fight Kreegans? Thus why they hate them.


pumma said:
Actually they aren't. They are no robots or cyborgs. In fact they are wizards' experiment much like minotaurs, beholders and cockatrices.

The problem is that you have the Ancients' Universe first introduced with Might and Magic RPG's where you have creatures from Dungeon and Dragons RPG System but with different origin and than you have Heroes of Might and Magic games which are Might and Magic Mythology in essence with Earth Mythology as coverage. The result is a bit messy.


verriker said:
actually bear in mind they are probably cyborgs or at least something outlandish enough to give a fantasy genre purist a heart attack (source: NWC interview), bear in mind they only appeared in Erathia mysteriously after the Kreegans fell down in their shooting star (source: Long Live the Queen) so they are actually not a creature of the wizards or an invention of them unless the ancients are a Wizard cheers lol


NimoStar said:
Well considering this: http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian I'd say it's pretty sure they are probably an artificial lifeform.

Quote:
"Guardian" is an umbrella term used to refer to several variants of the Ancients' servants. Generally, their only universally common features are their sentience and technological origin (...) were built to facilitate physical defence aside from other tasks - they resemble mortal races, and appear to scar and bleed when harmed.


And here http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Escaton it specifies "He was sent to Jadame to destroy the world because of a rumored Kreegan attack." -
The name itself is a reference to christian mythology of the End Times so the association with angels is not a longshot at all: www.miapic.com/diccionario-escaton-eschaton
Not to mention the "Sword of Judgement" and all that, which is know to be ancient's technology...


pumma said:
Edit: They are experiment of the Wizards of Bracada and if I'm not mistaken, the source of the information for there origin is Might and Magic 7. Also the Shooting Star is in Enroth and not in Antagarich (this is the story of Might and Magic 6). Maybe the Kreegans landed also in Antagarich or they moved there from Enroth (most probably the later but in both cases its not clear how they missed the continent of Jadame). Most of the Guardians are actually cyborgs with maybe the only exception for which I know of The Oracle of Enroth.

PS: Now I will try to find the source information for Angels origin and then post it here but it will take some time.


verriker said:
hey mate that's great albeit bear in mind I have all of the text of MM7 in a folder here and it has zero lore of the angels that I can find, the only bit of any lore about angels in those games is in MM8 with the angelfeather cloak lol

also bear in mind that what is most probable is that the shooting stars also fell in Antagarich, the text hints there were multiple shooting stars, one which fell in Blackwoode and the other one fell in Eeofol (source: Nether Gods and Armageddon Blade) cheers lol

sorry for offtop btw, to not distract Nephretes amazing work let us go to the lore thread cheers lol

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pumma
pumma


Hired Hero
posted January 21, 2018 07:00 PM

verriker said:
we have in the other thread had this discussion and with Galaad requested for future posts to go here, but to accommodate any who suffer a reading impairment (such as my mate Edmund or my dog who reads my posts lol) I have taken it upon my own bat to proactively transfer over the posts cheers lol

fred79 said:
i was never a fan of the original h3 angels; they never looked right, to me. being that the kreegans aren't actually from Hell, it doesn't make sense to have angels in the game(and even moreso, a hatred between the creatures. you would think an angel, of all creatures, would KNOW if a creature was from Hell or not, lol. and thus, logically have a reason to hate them).


Galaad said:
I am still convinced they are cyborgs.


NimoStar said:
Actually aren't angels ancient robots made to fight Kreegans? Thus why they hate them.


pumma said:
Actually they aren't. They are no robots or cyborgs. In fact they are wizards' experiment much like minotaurs, beholders and cockatrices.

The problem is that you have the Ancients' Universe first introduced with Might and Magic RPG's where you have creatures from Dungeon and Dragons RPG System but with different origin and than you have Heroes of Might and Magic games which are Might and Magic Mythology in essence with Earth Mythology as coverage. The result is a bit messy.


verriker said:
actually bear in mind they are probably cyborgs or at least something outlandish enough to give a fantasy genre purist a heart attack (source: NWC interview), bear in mind they only appeared in Erathia mysteriously after the Kreegans fell down in their shooting star (source: Long Live the Queen) so they are actually not a creature of the wizards or an invention of them unless the ancients are a Wizard cheers lol


NimoStar said:
Well considering this: http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian I'd say it's pretty sure they are probably an artificial lifeform.

Quote:
"Guardian" is an umbrella term used to refer to several variants of the Ancients' servants. Generally, their only universally common features are their sentience and technological origin (...) were built to facilitate physical defence aside from other tasks - they resemble mortal races, and appear to scar and bleed when harmed.


And here http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Escaton it specifies "He was sent to Jadame to destroy the world because of a rumored Kreegan attack." -
The name itself is a reference to christian mythology of the End Times so the association with angels is not a longshot at all: www.miapic.com/diccionario-escaton-eschaton
Not to mention the "Sword of Judgement" and all that, which is know to be ancient's technology...


pumma said:
Edit: They are experiment of the Wizards of Bracada and if I'm not mistaken, the source of the information for there origin is Might and Magic 7. Also the Shooting Star is in Enroth and not in Antagarich (this is the story of Might and Magic 6). Maybe the Kreegans landed also in Antagarich or they moved there from Enroth (most probably the later but in both cases its not clear how they missed the continent of Jadame). Most of the Guardians are actually cyborgs with maybe the only exception for which I know of The Oracle of Enroth.

PS: Now I will try to find the source information for Angels origin and then post it here but it will take some time.


verriker said:
hey mate that's great albeit bear in mind I have all of the text of MM7 in a folder here and it has zero lore of the angels that I can find, the only bit of any lore about angels in those games is in MM8 with the angelfeather cloak lol

also bear in mind that what is most probable is that the shooting stars also fell in Antagarich, the text hints there were multiple shooting stars, one which fell in Blackwoode and the other one fell in Eeofol (source: Nether Gods and Armageddon Blade) cheers lol

sorry for offtop btw, to not distract Nephretes amazing work let us go to the lore thread cheers lol



It took me some time to check MM7 but unfortunately MM7 is not like MM6 and in MM7 the information is too scarce and now it seems to me that MM7 is a little bit unfinished. Meanwhile I have managed to remember that I red the information about Angels origin somewhere in the Net more than 10 years ago. Ever since I am trying to locate it but to no avail for now. Most probably the site is long gone or changed or google is playing tricks. The latter is quiet possible because of the changes in google. In fact a couple of years ago I found a site with all Heroes names in HMM 2 beta which are different from the Heroes names of the final version (I mean about all 6 fractions) and now I can not find it anymore. I will be very grateful if someone could provide the complete list of Heroes names in HMM 2 beta instead of the half which I have found through google nowadays.

Back to Angels origin. Now I believe that the possibility of their origin to be a result of Wizard experiment is no less than 90%. Also I have remembered another piece of information which could explain the risk of possible heart attack among the fantasy genre purists especially the religious ones. So I am not going to make the above mentioned piece of information public but I could send it to Verriker for example who seems to be interested in the topic. Finally I will give some arguments why I think this information is true. First of all in Might & Magic Universe, the one which was practically erased with the canceling of the Forge faction in AB you don't have Gods in the original sense. There role is taken by the Ancients. So you have these planets created by the Ancients and populated by all sort of living creatures created by Ancients magic. You also have 5 elemental planes and possibly 2 more (Plane of Light and Plane of Darkness). You don't have Hell or Heaven (forget about the nonsense in HMM4  - there are only result by the Forge fiasco). Also have the Creators which are somehow related to the Kreegans. So all in all you have living creatures created by the Ancients and by wizards experiments (Warlocks or Bracada wizards alike), Guardians created by the ancients which are cyborgs or machines and creatures from the 7 Planes). The Angels are living creatures so they are no Guardians and as I know they appeared some time AS. And in MM8 the Ancients sent Escaton and not Angels. The second option is that they are from one of the 7 Planes, most probably Plane of Light which I don't think is possible because of the already mentioned heart attack. So they were created on Planet of Enroth AS or came from the Void as the Kreegans. I highly doubt that Angels are aliens like the Kreegans. So most probably their origin is Planet of Enroth and they are result of some experiment. Also King Magnus II (most probably Gavin Magnus) found Celeste 499 AS.

And here comes my own speculations. Angels are created for the purpose to be Celeste guardians probably by Gavin Magnus himself who is immortal. The only other living creatures which are immortal in MM Universe are the Ancients (at least I don't know to be any other). So Gavin Magnus could be an Ancient one who lost his memory or a half breed. And in the light of that one could say that Angels are Ancients doing. Of course the last paragraph is a pure speculation.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rebirth aanytime now..
posted January 21, 2018 07:29 PM

pumma said:
Back to Angels origin. Now I believe that the possibility of their origin to be a result of Wizard experiment is no less than 90%. Also I have remembered another piece of information which could explain the risk of possible heart attack among the fantasy genre purists especially the religious ones. So I am not going to make the above mentioned piece of information public but I could send it to Verriker for example who seems to be interested in the topic.

I have not seen verriker for some time but fire away, I'm curious.
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Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment!

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted January 21, 2018 09:09 PM

@pumma

Tarnum is also immortal, and he was born human. Maybe Gavin Magnus obtained his immortality, as Tarnum did (maybe not the exact way, as Tarnum's was a curse)?
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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pumma
pumma


Hired Hero
posted January 21, 2018 10:13 PM
Edited by pumma at 22:14, 21 Jan 2018.

frostymuaddib said:
@pumma

Tarnum is also immortal, and he was born human. Maybe Gavin Magnus obtained his immortality, as Tarnum did (maybe not the exact way, as Tarnum's was a curse)?


Yes, Tarnum. Gavin Magnus was slain for the first time and came back to life for his own surprise at the Battle of Steelhorn. But these information is from Heroes Chronicles and I am not sure how it fits the Original Universe which was changed more or less after the Heavenly Forge cancellation.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted January 31, 2018 11:56 PM

Gavin Magnus died again during the Reckoning, but due to his immortal state he survived that as well. Short description from his bio in the Bullard files. Although I don't recall any mentioning about HOW he became an immortal. Just that it puzzles him and he believes the God has intentions for him (this also lead to his plans in H4). Can find exact text is you want.

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