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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 12, 2016 12:50 AM |
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@Adriancat: all existing duel maps cannot be used (heavy conflicts), I would like to see a new duel mode someday..
@ThGryps: stronghold cannot have real classes, hardcoded issue, same for avenger skill.
Matriarchs, recently I'm starting to think no melee penalty is more balanced.
Warlock has been dungeon hero in all previous heroes games.
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Belisarius
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 03:02 AM |
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I like Seraph's regeneration spell.
MMH5.5 gives the opportunity to play each race in multiple ways.
To play Haven with an Heretic, building a strong magic hero, against Dungeon's might heroes and beat them in what it used to be their own game.  Especially in early-mid game when destructive magic is probably most effective.
So, at this stage of the game, one doesn't have to immediately turn back when he sees Dungeon hero on the map. Maybe Dungeon's hero needs to run away when sees Haven's hero?
heretic vs overlord
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted January 12, 2016 10:14 AM |
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magnomagus said:
Apparently I overlooked something with the elementals, but I should be able to add a hard cap on it somehow.
I got idea for elementals (which i think is scriptable).
I dont remember what was the count of elementals per Expert mastery but for the example i will set it to 3.
Make the creatures in such way that only 3 elementals will join per Expert type of mastery.
For example:
1. Craig hack has expert shatter destruction. - this bumps 3 elementals per week in each castle.
2. Gotai has expert Shatter Summoning and expert shatter destruction - This contributes with another 3 elementals per week for summoning but 0 for destruction because it is already available in the tribe.
So basically the MAX will be 12 per week if you have all 4 shatters on expert throughout faction heroes.
Not sure how to edit the price of elementals but it will be good if it can be set to 1 so there will be no point of selling them. (after all they are elementals so they do not fit as a slaves exactly)
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 10:45 AM |
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Edited by thGryphn at 11:40, 12 Jan 2016.
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magnomagus said:
@ThGryps: stronghold cannot have real classes, hardcoded issue, same for avenger skill.
Such a shame that it can't be changed!
magnomagus said:
Matriarchs, recently I'm starting to think no melee penalty is more balanced.
Agreed wholeheartedly! I would even take the Confusion spell away from them. Mistress would be the only one with Confusion, which makes sense as they would be of more use when not in melee. Matriarchs having everything doesn't sound balanced really.
magnomagus said:
Warlock has been dungeon hero in all previous heroes games.
Well, in Heroes IV, they were called Sorcerers. 
In Heroes I, II and III, Dungeon was really an evil faction, in Heroes IV and V they're just the creepy faction.
I think Warlock name suits the Demon magic hero better, and Occultist would go perfect with a magician with expertise in, well, Occultism.
That said, I know many people associates Warlock with Dungeon because of that history...
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matod
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 10:53 AM |
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When we talk about names i think barbarians should be called barbarians not that stronghold or smth , gush really hate that ashan rename  and that ashan world sux so hard evrything is called ashapsooihwre-nonsense what happend to good old erathia ? at least titans and dragons have same name
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 12, 2016 12:01 PM |
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@Belisarius: but somehow got haven 9 seraphs, while the enemy did not have dragons and various upgrades?
@dredknight: the issue is farming with low-level secondary heroes, therefore adding level based multiplier is more effective.
I will underprice the elementals a bit but
the slave market can be modified to give only 50% value, last line in defstats
@ThGryph: confusion was already removed from them
@Matod: ?? Stronghold was also name of town in Heroes 3.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 12, 2016 12:48 PM |
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I have also been rethinking the no range penalty on crossbowman, it seems great but there are actually various problems with the current haven t2 setup:
-role of crossbowmen is strictly early creeping with light magic heroes, if you find the unicorn hornbow later, crossbowmen are completely pointless and have nothing to offer.
-wide dmg gap of 2-8 doesn't synergize with red heroes at all since they don't specialize in light magic
-scatter shot+precise shot is OP, so I had to cripple precise shot back to 3 tiles to make it hardly relevant, waste of ability.
I think better solution:
Remove no range penalty and boost dmg by 20%: 4-8 + no light magic dependency.
move precise shot to crossbowman and extent the range
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matod
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 12:54 PM |
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good thinking but try to compare dmg a little but with dwarwes shotter lvl 2 i think they should be same? they got 2-5
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 12, 2016 01:22 PM |
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Quote:
good thinking but try to compare dmg a little but with dwarwes shotter lvl 2 i think they should be same? they got 2-5
I'm not following what you try to say exactly? fortress T2 doesn't need to be as good as haven their power rating needs to be evaluated taking the rest of the fortress line up into account, for example fortress T1 is much better.
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matod
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 01:28 PM |
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well yes from this point you are right but i think nobody uses ones with cripple they are no match for those with 2-5, there is more balance issue that for heaven at least for me.
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Belisarius
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 01:31 PM |
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@magno that is because Seraphs are "rushed" to get, also multiple heroes across map for both Haven and Dungeon.
Quick Combat loses that battle for Alaric:
[img] [/img]
Notice the big difference in att/def stats; and level: 15 vs 24. See how Seraph's regen is also critical because of that.
If Irwanna had dragons (maybe 9 of them) in her army, I guess she would've won. Which is the best thing about this game. Possibilities.
+1 for reasoning on shatters
+1 for reasoning on haven lvl 2
-1 for matriarch. I don't think they OP. Compared to what they are overpowered? Does Dungeon as a whole needs to be nerfed, or just comparing -invisibility/no retaliation- vs -full range- on 6th lvl unit upgrades?
-1 for assassins nerf
If those two are nerfed than invisible unit game-play is Dungeon's "forced" option.
-1 for sisters nerf, (although they may need that change you were talking about, with 5 growth and +1hp for first upgrade) but than again Dungeon's growth on low level units is already lowest in the game.
I can't follow the reasoning for Dungeon having 3 archer units with sister's no ret. Look at griffins battle div + unlim. ret. for example. Or other units in diff. races.
I believe Dungeon in MMH5.5 is best example on how to "fix-change-develop" other races. A good reference point for all of them. No need for drastic changes on Dungeon.
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matod
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 01:44 PM |
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what is real isue with heroes 5 general random map playing is the mage guards and shoters , 80% heroes can do anything about them and when they guard mine you need you are screwed but i dont have any good solution for this one this something that can make huge difference if somebody has mine guarded by sky daugthers and druids/mages
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 01:49 PM |
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I have another name suggestion for Inferno Magic hero: Pyromancer! 
Blood Magic heroes in Heroes VI are called Pyromancer and it fits perfectly, don't you think? Lore-wise and everything?
I still like Occultist for Dungeon magic hero but I know it's a lost cause, lol.
magnomagus said:
@ThGryph: confusion was already removed from them
Awesome! 
magnomagus said:
I have also been rethinking the no range penalty on crossbowman, it seems great but there are actually various problems with the current haven t2 setup:
-role of crossbowmen is strictly early creeping with light magic heroes, if you find the unicorn hornbow later, crossbowmen are completely pointless and have nothing to offer.
-wide dmg gap of 2-8 doesn't synergize with red heroes at all since they don't specialize in light magic
-scatter shot+precise shot is OP, so I had to cripple precise shot back to 3 tiles to make it hardly relevant, waste of ability.
I think better solution:
Remove no range penalty and boost dmg by 20%: 4-8 + no light magic dependency.
move precise shot to crossbowman and extent the range
I'm not sure what I think of this because I'm confused as to what you're offering for Marksman.
Is it like this?
Marksman: Dmg 2-8, Scatter Shot
Crossbowman: Dmg 4-8, Precise Shot with extended range
If so, Crossbowman will definitely be OP.
If you can clarify...
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 12, 2016 01:54 PM |
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Quote:
-1 for matriarch. I don't think they OP. Compared to what they are overpowered? Does Dungeon as a whole needs to be nerfed, or just comparing -invisibility/no retaliation- vs -full range- on 6th lvl unit upgrades?
In TOE, the matriarchs were a little weaker than mistresses, but with no range penalty they actually become stronger than the mistresses.
Quote:
-1 for assassins nerf
If those two are nerfed than invisible unit game-play is Dungeon's "forced" option.
you misunderstood, the nerf is on the stalkers, because they are currently the forced option.
Quote:
-1 for sisters nerf, (although they may need that change you were talking about, with 5 growth and +1hp for first upgrade) but than again Dungeon's growth on low level units is already lowest in the game.
the growth is actually 7 because all overlords start with recruitment and 5x their power rating already matches T2 power rating of other factions.
Quote:
I can't follow the reasoning for Dungeon having 3 archer units with sister's no ret. Look at griffins battle div + unlim. ret. for example. Or other units in diff. races.
I agree this was not behind my reasoning at all.
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Belisarius
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 01:57 PM |
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+1 matod, that is the first half of my reasoning: because of this you are mentioning, together with big battlegrounds every race needs solution, like better range units. ( Why nerfing Dungeon's archers? Or any archers. Instead ) give each race good range solutions.
I was also talking about Arch Demon's need to get +1 move speed and +1 initiative, to be able to reach further with his ability. Cause Inferno has only one range unit(officially, without counting 6th lvl creature's spell)...
@magno ok +1. So the only thing about Dungeon's changes are matriarchs. Maybe we should try first the other changes without touching matriarchs, and see how the things (game-play) turns out?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 12, 2016 02:11 PM |
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Quote:
Marksman: Dmg 2-8, Scatter Shot
Crossbowman: Dmg 4-8, Precise Shot with extended range
Marksman also have +1 initiative, but you are right because crossbowman also have +1A this is too much.
@Belisarius
The Arch Demons are supposed to be the tank variant increasing their S and I makes them too similar.
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Belisarius
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 03:51 PM |
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Ok magno, I agree. Understanding where you coming from, about Arch Demons being tank variant. The thing I am saying is giving Inferno more options in ranged fights, considering all changes in MMH5.5. (bigger battlegrounds and so on)So with +1 move speed (and +1 ini)Demons can have wider reach for units with their ability. Inferno has only one regular archer unit, so I was preferring the option not to nerf other races archers (long rang options), but the other way around. To give races that are "weaker" in ranged battles, more options...
Only my opinion tho.
EDIT: I do agree on stalkers and sisters changes proposed by magno.
EDIT2: question: can range penalty (for matriarchs, or other archers) be
20%, or something like that? If this % value is a variable so that can be adjusted?
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MammothBro
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 12, 2016 06:21 PM |
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matod said:
well yes from this point you are right but i think nobody uses ones with cripple they are no match for those with 2-5, there is more balance issue that for heaven at least for me.
Dude, are you for real? Soldier's Luck+crippling wound+paw strike/roar and melee creeps can't even get to you. Resurrection+Berserker ability+No Retaliation rune+both Thanes' ability+2 legit shooters and you won't even have any losses on creeps.
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted January 12, 2016 08:05 PM |
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Why is Bertram, a Knight, a Heretic if he doesn't start with Dark magic (and is unable to get it)? :S
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 12, 2016 08:37 PM |
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MammothBro said:
matod said:
well yes from this point you are right but i think nobody uses ones with cripple they are no match for those with 2-5, there is more balance issue that for heaven at least for me.
Dude, are you for real? Soldier's Luck+crippling wound+paw strike/roar and melee creeps can't even get to you. Resurrection+Berserker ability+No Retaliation rune+both Thanes' ability+2 legit shooters and you won't even have any losses on creeps.
Harpooners do 40% more dmg, that's quite a lot, but skirmishers also have +20%HP, with harpoon strike and armoured it's a complex case. My current estimation was that skirmishers are entitled to +1 Attack, but that's all.
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