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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 17, 2016 12:02 AM |
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Edited by Gidoza at 00:13, 17 May 2016.
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That both helped and didn't...now if I go to edit with the text editor, there's nothing there to remove, so if I want to knock out heroes, I can't...
...I need to have the full list in front of me in the first place to remove select elements.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 12:13 AM |
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True, annoyingly you have to list all IDs you want instead of the ones you don't want. Nonetheless all heroes have been multiplayer balanced so no need to kick any out.
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 17, 2016 12:15 AM |
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Edited by Gidoza at 00:23, 17 May 2016.
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magnomagus said:
True, annoyingly you have to list all IDs you want instead of the ones you don't want. Nonetheless all heroes have been multiplayer balanced so no need to kick any out.
But I don't know which ones I want because they're not there in the first place for me to even identify them.
As for Heroes - I don't want Fortress heroes in this map, because there aren't any Fortresses that will be participating; and the bigger problem is Artifacts, because there's quite a few I want to remove.
It's not possible to just have the full list as default instead of no list at all?
As for balanced heroes, I'm very much opposed to heroes who produce resources, especially when the resource is compatible with that very town...some just have to go.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 09:08 AM |
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 17, 2016 09:16 AM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 10:30 AM |
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I know, but I didn't change the text deliberately, I regretted changing the text for the intimidate spec, because it is very hard for people to understand that it is equally powerful to agreal.
The actual numbers are based on precise calculations adjusted to the new damage calculation numbers and keep the skill balanced as it was in TOE. So the description reflects that.
EDIT: I should add this is the only time I ever did that, so if you find something else it is a bug!
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 17, 2016 12:45 PM |
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All right I will stay vigilant.
Update regarding summons specializations.
Ghosts specialization:
The undead one is quite safe. I changed multiplier from 1 to 4 and I can say that there is absolutely no difference in PvE.
The main point comes from the fact that ghosts are summoned when enemy stack dies and enemy creatures avoid the summoned ghosts so they do not serve that good for blocking cause they appear where the enemy died. In comparison with the elemental summoning spec for each of your killed creatures you get 1 elemental stack (that can cast spells) which can be made to block enemies easy and nicely. When it comes to battling PvE there are 3 types of battles.
A) One type of creature battle - there is only 1 creature where the weaker you are the more stacks of it there are but usually they are 2 of them (3 and 4 when you are way too weak and 1 when your army is way too strong). At this case if you cant kill a stack it does not help you. If you can kill a stack it does not you that much either because that stack gives just 1 stack of ghosts so it is pretty safe.
B) Combination of 4 stacks on adventure map - Those include 1 archer, 1 slow unit and 1 flyer or very fast unit. Same issue as before if you cant kill a stack you cant get ghosts so no help here.
If you are strong enough to kill a stack you can use the ghosts to block archers but this is as far as it goes. Slowing the battle a little bit.
C) Battle sites - 7 stacks of strong different creatures which are very far away from you. I did not try this one but if you cant beat it without them I doubt you will make it with them  .
Final line: ghosts are pretty safe the number of stacks in battle depends on number of killed enemy stacks which follows the formula N-1 (because the last killed stack finishes the battle).
Basically the only place where the number of summoned ghosts matter is the PvP. x4 modifier seems legit, at lvl 20 it will summon 80 ghosts only if the stack total health supports it.
Summons specialization:
this prooved to be quite potent specialization. Basically at level 1 you get 2 elementals for 1 killed stack with 1 unit.
In each combat easily you can have up to 6 elemental stacks, which cant cast magic, have initiative, basically quite versatile in any case.
Also in defaultstats.xdb i found the following info
<MasterOfElements_SpellpowerBonus>
<Base>1</Base>
<LevelDivisor>3</LevelDivisor>
<PerDividedLevel>1</PerDividedLevel>
</MasterOfElements_SpellpowerBonus>
<MasterOfElements_NumElementals>
<Base>1</Base>
<LevelDivisor>1</LevelDivisor>
<PerDividedLevel>1</PerDividedLevel>
</MasterOfElements_NumElementals>
Why the LevelDivisor for MasterOfElements_NumElementals is 40?
I tried to put it to 1 but I did not see big difference in the PvP battle. Still signifcant number of elements was summoned.
May be if PerDividedLevel is increased this will reduce the number of elements summoned. I will check that later and report.
Check the 2 replays below to see the difference in what you get as a power ot level 1.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/91xvekpyvhojrb7/summons%20test.zip?dl=0
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 12:52 PM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 01:13 PM |
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 17, 2016 01:31 PM |
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I did not.
when it comes to quantity the cap is always 4 times hero level.
This we saw it in the big PvP battles already.
When it comes to quality ghosts mostly serve to collect enemy retaliation and/or block damage.
I will try a quick game if you want but it will be later this week.
The only real power that may come from a couple of ghost stacks is in PvP where they mess up with the global "miss" modifier. The enemy will never know when it is OK the hit the real ghosts and actually hit them.
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strigvir
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 17, 2016 02:52 PM |
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Speaking of ghosts, can their avoidance be lowered to 33%, aka Minotaurs in H4? 50% is incredibly annoying to fight with mostly melee troops, in fact I'd have a lot of loses as Fortress if not for Rune of Battle Rage spam. The only way to consistently fight ethereal enemies is magic damage which falls off later in game.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 03:51 PM |
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That makes it even more gambling, because I would need to increase their HP to compensate, which makes them harder to kill with magic and you will still sometimes miss them 3 times in a row.
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 17, 2016 04:13 PM |
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This whole discussion about defence numbers or avoidance or whatever sort of makes me want to raise the whole attack/defence issue again. I realize that the attack multiplier was reduced to 33% from 50% because some artifacts got a point buff, however, I think should have happened anyways and the point buff on some items wasn't needed. Compare to Heroes 3: I think we can all agree that attack was insane in H3, however, H3 also seems to have less external damage modifiers as compared with H5. For example, Offence as a skill increased damage based on the BASE value and not modified values; Luck and Morale triggered rarely; in H5, Luck and Morale are triggering all the time, most damage modifiers modify the MODIFIED damage from attack, and there are even other damage bonuses apart from this: I see unreasonably large stacks being killed by what from my perspective isn't even a strong hero (my hero) stats-wise, because a whole bunch of little bonuses makes one big crack. Suffice it to say, I'm wondering if some of the values (like luck or morale) could be pulled back a little, and whether the Attack factor could be pulled back even as low as 25%. It's nice when battles last longer instead of just ending in a round or two.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 17, 2016 04:30 PM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 05:24 PM |
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Interesting observation about H3 luck, boy that skill sucks compared to attack in H3.
Regardless I already nerfed luck, on avg it is equal to offense in damage and unlike H3, defense will completely neutralize one of those skills (again in avg dmg). Some might feel 0.25 or 0.3 or 0.4 feels better, but it cannot be denied H55 has much less excessive damage and shooter dominance. Also H5 has negative luck!
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted May 17, 2016 06:39 PM |
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Quote:
So, really, it's very different from the old system. More structured. More meaningful relations between perks and prerequisites. And the idea of any kind of ultimate is scrapped. The purpose is to make all perks useful in a balanced way, considering their impact on the average. Average, because the use cases of perks can change but you can weight the possibilities of those use cases occurring and the impact of the perk, and arrive at an expected impact of a perk, and balance over those. That's what MMH5.5 is attempting to do, and doing so very well, IMHO.
I disagree with you - there still are ultimates present in H5.5. What is Urgash's Call, if not an ultimate? It still has prerequisites from three different trees, and is insanely stupid powerful -> and therefore lame. I thought one of the main points of H5.5 was to be rid of things like this; both super abilities and also forced paths in order to get a particular skill. H5.5 hasn't quite gone far enough on this level, I think.
On the other hand, what's up with Plague Tent? Tents can fire three times, Ballista an infinity with more damage - why would I want a Plague Tent?
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Dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 17, 2016 07:46 PM |
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Gidoza, urgash call is not that strong and I believe I proved that with the latest replays. Having urgash call means not using a lot of other stuff. Basically you are extremely vulnerable to any magic, and most of the time toy will lack defense. Also having urgash call means your tactics will be mainly offensive which means you won't be able to benefit from Combat as well (which is main skill for the daemon lord).
Now let's do some math urgash call needs 24 skills basically you dont have many more free Level points for anything else.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 17, 2016 08:02 PM |
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@Gidoza: You overlook that gating isn't even that strong to begin with in H5.5, since all modifiers from the skill and the infernal looms have been nerfed to make the skill roughly as strong as any other secondary skill. You can swap it for something else and play inferno without any gating at all.
-the resurrection boost is very useful and more important than the actual plague tent
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strigvir
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2016 03:51 AM |
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Edited by strigvir at 04:07, 18 May 2016.
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magnomagus said:
That makes it even more gambling, because I would need to increase their HP to compensate, which makes them harder to kill with magic and you will still sometimes miss them 3 times in a row.
How is lower chance of completely ignoring damage "even more gambling"? Besides, you don't need to buff their health, raise defense due to them being ethereal. In h4 they have comparable defense to level 4 units and a nasty debuff on attack, yet I didn't feel like they stood out like a sore thumb over other level 2 units.
It just feels wrong when a 3rd level creature has a higher "danger rating" than bone dragons and vampires just because of some OP bonus.
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2016 04:13 AM |
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What I would love to see for ghosts is equal percent chances of doing 20, 40, or 60% damage and a small chance to do 100%, or something similar. It keeps the luck factor in, retains the fun of 'scoring' the full hit, (we all know how cathartic it is to get a full critical hit on a ghost stack after lots of misses) but would still prevent ridiculous 7x1-ghost shenanigans, ensuring that every hit at least does something. The varied damage percentages would add a feeling of ghosts being sometimes there, sometimes not, without being a complete hit-or-miss.
I feel like I remember you saying something about this being hardcoded and thus unchangeable but it's nice to imagine.
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