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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 278 pages long: 1 30 60 90 120 150 ... 178 179 180 181 182 ... 210 240 270 278 · «PREV / NEXT»
dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 01, 2016 09:12 AM
Edited by dredknight at 09:14, 01 Jun 2016.

magnomagus said:
@dredknight: not possible like that but greater rune perk can be removed/replaced, can you give some stats on how many times runes are spammed twice on creatures during pvp battles and also which runes are spammed twice. in other words list the 3-4 strongest runes backed up by your pvp replays.

Fortress creature power ratings are not the problem tier5 are not liches they have -10A -10D compared to them.



I have 2 games in castle I will make another 2 out of castle and share them all.

Yes they have 10 less defense then liches but they have 30% more HP which make them equal in HP equation.

However I agree on the damage point they are a bit weaker due to low stats (-30%) but on the other hand they are 1-square unit compared to liches 2x2.

Yes liches do a lot of damage but they rarely shoot in PvP after round one and they can be easily killed with destruction which is not the case with Fortress tier 5s.

Best runes imo are Rune of speed for sure - you always get the first hit and can position your army easily!

The problem with rune of berserking,  Battle Rage, and dragon form is that you can combine them.

I have old replay where I combine rune of bersering + battle rage on thanes and they hit around 8 times in a row with no retaliation.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 01, 2016 09:23 AM

Ok, but my most important question was does greater rune contribute much to the issue yes or no?
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 01, 2016 09:49 AM

The answer is yes!

Rune of thunderclap, speed and rage is just ridiculous to be casted twice...

Revive is ok as if you focus you can kill the unit before he has a chance to revive.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 01, 2016 10:20 AM

I never modified rune of revive, but it can be modified. The only runes that can modified is the % of rune of revive and the % of magic proof on the rune of dragon form. everything else is hardcoded.
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 01, 2016 11:32 AM

Another thing.

Master of puppets currently is too SP independent. Here is what I mean.

When one is thinking about hypnotize it has 2 effects.
- taking control of enemy unit
- reducing initiative where the initiative is at its fullest when magician has high SP.

The current duration of the spell is 0.6 flat + 0.1 per sp (for expert) which is way too high. This means that even a Might hero with 10-15 sp can fully use the spell to almost its potential.

My idea is that everyone should be able to use it but to restrict the choice of creatures it can be casted upon.

Here is the deal, lets remove the flat SP (or make ot very low - 0.1)

This means that for hero with low SP the effect will be present for brief duration. So when the Might hero turn comes and can cast hypnotize his choice will be restricted only to units that has their ATB almost ready to act.

Currently the 0.6 flat value allows for taking over almost any creature while granting the ability to act at least one.

For example in the current situation there is a hero with 30 Spell power and book of dark (this means Advanced) who casts Master of Puppets for the duration of 3.6 turns and the unit has init reduced from 11 to 7! Basically this is almost the whole battle duration (or up to a point where even if the other player get the unit back it wont make a difference).

The idea of the spell is that the stronger it is the more choice the caster has over which creature he wants to take.

With few words - Duration and Initiative effect of the spell stack exponentially.

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 01, 2016 11:40 AM
Edited by dredknight at 11:41, 01 Jun 2016.

Here is link with 3 replays.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cpxan35vq06j7i2/academy_vs_inferno.tar?dl=0
2 in castle one outside.
Academy always lose.

With few words - Academy hero has Expert attack ,archery, flaming balista, tripple balista, ring of balista, Expert summoning + the tome, Expert luck + critical strike perk and magic resistance perk.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted June 01, 2016 01:35 PM

Greater rune definitely helps with rune spamming. It won't see much use in creeping but it is a life-saver in hero battles. And fine rune gives you a chance to avoid the triple resource cost too! I think it would be fair if greater rune was removed and refresh rune became a half action ability. Perhaps then it would see more play.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted June 01, 2016 02:02 PM

magnomagus said:
I never modified rune of revive, but it can be modified. The only runes that can modified is the % of rune of revive and the % of magic proof on the rune of dragon form. everything else is hardcoded.


Does this 'hardcoded' means that runes cannot be changed in a manner dredknight suggested? That is that rune have only 1 charge per battle, per creature. Perhaps if this is modable, there can be more specific perks;
perk 1 1 more charges for level 1 rune
perk 2 - 1 more charges for level 2 rune
perk 3 - 1 more charges for level 3 rune
perk 4 - 1 more charges for level 4 rune
perk 5 - 1 more charges for level 5 rune
Default is one charge per rune per battle, perks only add more charges, that is, same rune can be placed on one more creature.

In total, each rune can be placed two times but not on the same creature and Flamekeepers cannot have Dark Magic.

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strigvir
strigvir


Adventuring Hero
posted June 01, 2016 02:21 PM

Elvin said:
And fine rune gives you a chance to avoid the triple resource cost too!

It doesn't. Fine Rune will only subtract the base cost of a rune, so Greater Rune will cost 2/3 of its cost when Fine Rune procs.

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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 01, 2016 02:35 PM

Is the cost for using runes hardcoded?  If not, I had another idea:  instead of the present rune cost, make rune cost related to your daily income of that resource.  So, instead of 1 Gem, if your income is 9 Gems per day, then it would cost 9 Gems; if 12 Gems per day, then 12 Gems; if the original cost was 2, then it would be 2*income per day.  Food Wood and Ore, halve these values, and otherwise the minimum cost is the cost they have always had.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 01, 2016 02:50 PM

The costs can be modified, but only by flat amounts, no complex mechanisms. I was thinking maybe let the cost be same amount as the level of the rune so a level 5 rune costs 5 res (or 2x5)

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 01, 2016 03:09 PM

Ok based on the replays this brings be to following classification of the runes

5
battle rage
charge

4
ethereal
dragonform (nerfed, no magic proof at all)

3
resurrect (nerfed, 25%-30%?)
thunderclap

2
berzerk
immunity

1
exorcism
control



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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 01, 2016 03:23 PM
Edited by dredknight at 15:24, 01 Jun 2016.

Great! I approve both!
resource amount (cost=tier) and the new hierarchy.

Another thing that comes to my mind is to make rune building be available only in the home town (as you did with artifact merchant).

This way the player will always have 5 runes mostly (+ some sights) and each game one will have to adjust to different combination of runes. Probably at this case you can make the cost a bit lower than the one proposed. (tier 1 = 1, tier 2 and 3 = 2, tier 4 and 5=3 resource).
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted June 01, 2016 03:28 PM

Charge seems too high at lvl 5, battlerage is simply better. But it is bound to be imbalanced regardless of its tier. Most Toh maps had it banned back when multiplayer was still blooming.

Resurrect seems too low at lvl 3. I'd rather keep it at 35-40% and move to lvl 5. Then it can actually rival battlerage.
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 01, 2016 03:48 PM

Speed is great thing and should be modified really carefully! the ability to double the speed gives each creature the possibility to go anywhere. Basically speed and Init usually balance the stats of the creature but in this case no matter how high or low are once stats it reaches everywhere which make it totally T5 worthy.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 01, 2016 03:53 PM

I can do the trick were the player will be restricted to 1x lvl 3 shrine, but I wouldn't go as far as restricting lvl 1 & 2 shrines.

In that case you want 2 runes at level 5 you really want the enemy to have only 1 from.

Honestly I think charge on magma dragons is much more out of control than a nerfed resurrection.

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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 01, 2016 04:04 PM

dredknight said:
Great! I approve both!
resource amount (cost=tier) and the new hierarchy.

Another thing that comes to my mind is to make rune building be available only in the home town (as you did with artifact merchant).

This way the player will always have 5 runes mostly (+ some sights) and each game one will have to adjust to different combination of runes. Probably at this case you can make the cost a bit lower than the one proposed. (tier 1 = 1, tier 2 and 3 = 2, tier 4 and 5=3 resource).



I was trying to figure out why the Artifact Merchant in one particular town was never available and didn't get why.  This is a user-made map where none of the players start with a town that has an Artifact Merchant, and I'd like this one particular town to have an Artifact Merchant intentionally.  But it blows up even if I've clicked it to already be pre-built...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 01, 2016 04:08 PM

If that town is owned by an AI, you will get a CTD and be unable to continue the game.
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 01, 2016 05:55 PM

magnomagus said:
Honestly I think charge on magma dragons is much more out of control than a nerfed resurrection.



good point. Basically Magma dragon is a heavy hitter and with rune of charge he is guaranteed to do a hit against everything hit wants.
Even blocking is not an option due to the fire breath ability.

What if... Dragons cannot use runes? Can you restrict creatures not to use runes?

Dragon is so damn though and on the top of that one can use etherelness... this is a 50% increase of hp for a short duration.

Btw here is another nice trick with fortress in the very late game:

- Use ethereal rune on all units on round one and just charge them.
Some will be hit some will not but when the second turn comes you go battle rage and mass hit everyone with already nicely deployed units.
Also you get a very nice support fire from your ethereled archers with  dragonrune on second turn which are probably missed by the enemy.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 01, 2016 06:03 PM

Making dragons immune to runes is possible by setting them to RACE_NO_TYPE but this also lowers the faction morale.

I have also tried making runes cost mana, didn't work.
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