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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 21, 2015 07:11 PM |
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Quote:
So the problem rather lies within the artifacts? Are the properties not in the xdb files? Should I look for these offsets, too?
Yes the problem is with the artifacts and also a little with haste & slow, but that is mostly solved by the proposed duration fix.
if all 20% artifacts would be 15%
all 10% would be 7.5%
and all 5% would be 3.75%
it would probably be a lot better, but there 13 of them, seems a lot of work to me.
EDIT:
Quote:
Giving initiative bonus by adding +1 to initiative would affect different armies differently. Slow armies would benefit the most out of it.
You are right and I was wrong about this, so maybe don't do anything. Want to make some new comparisons.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 21, 2015 11:31 PM |
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magnomagus said:
I also think Sylvan is a little OP, because unlike inferno their huge amount of initiative is not justified by having weaker creatures, on the contrary I think they have the best creatures of all factions.
totally agree!
Treants are OP!
When they root themselves they receive unlimited retalation (you can see it on Barbarian replays) and also their growth is 3 per week, not 2 as other factions (there is building for +1 tree per week). Interesting enough that +1 in population should compensate for some weakness but there is none... they are super tough have somewhat good speed and their initiative is compensated with unlimited retalation when they DEFEND.
I am not even starting to speak about lvl 7 unit which is totally outrageous ! 
@Dungeon, I think they are ok as they are.
tier 2 is fast but die easily and one (actually every) mistake costs dearly.
Also dungeon suffers quite some casualties before you get the hydras out or if you dont play with stealth + magic.
The other things I agree  .
Another fix for the +% initiative is to scrap them as you did with other artifacts.
Give them some other bonuses and remove initiative or even better.
Make them with some fixed bonus + little init% boost for a flavour.
+2 attack +2% init boost.
May be the one that gives 20% to be reduced to 5% and no other bonus at all.
So you either get the 5% or put another artifact for stats.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 22, 2015 12:05 AM |
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Quote:
May be the one that gives 20% to be reduced to 5% and no other bonus at all.
I think you are starting to exaggerate stuff again This is a relic artifact so the question you should ask is: is this artifact more or less powerful than the armor of the forgotten hero? if it is a lot more powerful than it is OP otherwise its fine. I think my proposal from above is more balanced if the ini artifacts are OP.
Also read Deflaktors post: we were wrong, faster creatures do not benefit more from initiative artifacts than slower ones. so my proposal is off the table. (MMH55 philosophy = no issue = no fix).
There are 13 ini artifacts in the game and both players will always find a significant amount of them, so they tend to even out in the end. My earlier proposal to make ring of speed a staff was still the best one IMO, this prevents one player becoming extremely lucky by having both netherworld and the ring. I think this is the only real gamebreaking situation that can happen.
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Deflaktor
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 12:46 AM |
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dredknight said:
they are super tough have somewhat good speed and their initiative is compensated with unlimited retalation when they DEFEND.
Well thats not quite true, it is easily counterable. If all the treant does is defend, then you can just ignore it. Kill the rest of the army and when its left alone, pick it down one by one with your normal hero attack.
Treants are very strong against neutrals, but against players they do very little to contribute to the battle.
magnomagus said:
My earlier proposal to make ring of speed a staff was still the best one IMO, this prevents one player becoming extremely lucky by having both netherworld and the ring. I think this is the only real gamebreaking situation that can happen.
+1
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 22, 2015 09:23 AM |
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magnomagus said:
My earlier proposal to make ring of speed a staff was still the best one IMO, this prevents one player becoming extremely lucky by having both netherworld and the ring. I think this is the only real gamebreaking situation that can happen.
alright I agree. Just dont forget there is another ring for 10% which can be stacked as well.
Deflaktor said:
dredknight said:
they are super tough have somewhat good speed and their initiative is compensated with unlimited retalation when they DEFEND.
Well thats not quite true, it is easily counterable. If all the treant does is defend, then you can just ignore it. Kill the rest of the army and when its left alone, pick it down one by one with your normal hero attack.
Treants are very strong against neutrals, but against players they do very little to contribute to the battle.
I tend to disagree. In a battle you can attack an important unit with the treant so you can root him. On turn 2 you defend the treant and that is it. That enemy unit is out of the battle.
And this is best case scenario. What if there is a second unit nearby and the treant root it as well?
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lotihoti
Famous Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 10:01 AM |
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That is tactic.
Treants are fine - the kristal Dragons are another thing
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 22, 2015 10:20 AM |
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lotihoti said:
That is tactic.
Treants are fine - the kristal Dragons are another thing
Yes it is tactic but looking at the whole picture every sylvan unit is strong and have a tactic...
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 22, 2015 11:03 AM |
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My complaint was not targeted at the treants, more the fact that while having light magic, the faction has extra initiative compared to other factions across the whole line up and no pathetic creatures like zombies or gargoyles. For tier 2 I think it doesn't matter very much 13 or 18 initiative, they just make their strike and perish quickly.
My proposal would be -1 ini on tier 1 and 7 (upgraded only) and also even out the druids as I proposed earlier.
EDIT
Quote:
alright I agree. Just dont forget there is another ring for 10% which can be stacked as well.
The positive ones are much less dangerous because the enemy will always find many positives too.
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lotihoti
Famous Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 11:49 AM |
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dredknight said:
lotihoti said:
That is tactic.
Treants are fine - the kristal Dragons are another thing
Yes it is tactic but looking at the whole picture every sylvan unit is strong and have a tactic...
Same goes for any other creature of each faction.
The Problem is the high initiative of hard hitting creatures (Dragons as example). Magnos change of -1 to base initiative of t1 + 7 would fix that a bit.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 22, 2015 01:35 PM |
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ISSUE: sky/earth daughters
One of the last things with regards to balance I had on my mind. I realize with the new new spell durations this may be less an issue, but I tested it quite extensively and the gameplay and tactical variation of this change was so much fun that I still would like to bring it up. Lorewise it is also very defendable.
The shamans are supposed to have very high initiative to be able to constantly switch between sacrificing and casting/fighting, but this has turned out bad for the earth daughters, with all there extra combat abilities and casting haste on themselves they are basically doing the same thing on the battlefield as maulers and executioners
and more often than not do it even better. In singleplayer I often use sky daughters, because I find them more fun and make me feel this is how stronghold was supposed to be: tier 3+5 doing the work and tier 4 as support unit constantly switching between different spells and sometimes do some fighting. But in PvP i would always choose earth daughters, because unlike chain lightning they are surely going to pay off.
PROPOSAL:
Set both to the same weaker stats of the sky daughters, except earth daughters have 9A,7D instead of 7A,9D, speed = 4. The earth daughters will keep hexing attack+swift attack.
Give following spells
Sky:
Chain Lightning Advanced (20+20*SP)
Haste Basic
Divine Strength Advanced
Mana:11
Earth
Meteor Shower Basic (12+12*SP)
Slow Basic
Weakness Advanced
Mana:11
mana is 11 instead of 12 to prevent casting 3x before sacrifice
In order to balance meteor shower vs chain lightning the rage levels will be set as follows
sky +1 ini/SPx1.5 - SPx2/+8HP - SPx4
earth +2 ini - SPx1.5/+8HP - SPx3
According to my calculations meteor shower is a little better without rage but chain lightning better at first level then at level 2 and 3 they are more or less equal. Also it is easier to cast chain lightning 2 times after one sacrifice
The earth daughters gain more ini since they don't have haste anymore and for stronghold haste > slow. This also balances the fact that earth daughters still have hex+swift.
The earth daughters work with chieftains since they want the extra initiative without haste, the sky daughters don't need this since they can haste on themselves.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 22, 2015 02:24 PM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 22, 2015 03:43 PM |
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klosarmicko
Hired Hero
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posted June 23, 2015 09:46 AM |
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magnomagus said:
i'm also happy to hear this quest was actually possible to complete.
Its awesome! I am currently playing with 5 cheating heroic factions on huge+underground, and I managed to complete the quest 9 times. I found 4 building for the quest so far, around 40 % of map discovered. It gave me 2 tears of asha and 7 bonuses like +5 sp for 3 endless bags of gold or +4 defence for 2 horns of plenty and so on.
Now I have a suggestion and a 2 questions:
1. Coz i keep all the items I find, buy or win, i found my self to have a looot of them and i need to keep pressing that right arrow > for about 10 seconds until I finally got to the end. This makes it really hard to search for something I need and it wastes a lot of time. Could you make inventory bigger? Like 4x5 instead 2x5. Thank you
2.when my enemy runs away from battle, what happens to his items? Are they completely removed from the game? Coz that would suck...
3. There is still that bug from before with items. Somehow after switching a lot of items i found myself to have full 8/8 effect of a dragon set with only 2 items equipped. Also i only had at a moment that armor +6 sp and i had an effect double sp and mana for spellcasters. Few other people had this bug here on forums.
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lotihoti
Famous Hero
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posted June 23, 2015 09:59 AM |
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1. Thats possible (i think)
2. IF a hero runs away, he can be bought in tavern with all his artifacts, Levels etc.
3. This bug is weird... Had it twice but couldnt manage to reproduce it why i had it...
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 23, 2015 11:50 AM |
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Quote:
Its awesome! I am currently playing with 5 cheating heroic factions on huge+underground, and I managed to complete the quest 9 times. I found 4 building for the quest so far, around 40 % of map discovered. It gave me 2 tears of asha and 7 bonuses like +5 sp for 3 endless bags of gold or +4 defence for 2 horns of plenty and so on.
Well, maybe the quests are a little too easy, it seems a minimum of 3 artifacts may be better.
1. Don't know, I think it is very hard.
3. Yes, it seems rare, i never had it, but probably the day will come, but i cannot fix it that is for sure.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted June 23, 2015 11:55 AM |
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High Druids with their ability can boots Sylvan hero spell power. It is good if we have Damage Spells or Summoning Magic School.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 23, 2015 12:00 PM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 23, 2015 01:02 PM |
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TESTING UPDATE!
Alright I have created new index file for balance testing
-fixed campaign neutrals being little too easy on normal & hard
-fixed kujin spec not working
-fixed vulnerability being OP
-fixed dead luck text
-Increased neutral growth speed for better 2nd/3rd zone.
-greatly improved hero combat
-balanced rage
-balanced warcries
-balanced cyclop HP
-balanced sylvan initiative
-nerfed empathy
-dynamic spellcasting with shorter turn durations
-tactical variation with druids/daughters
This does not include changes to artifacts/enlightenment fix or the ingame manual.
Download
@dredknight: could you run this with your battle once more? + please remove -6 primary skills from the barbarian to simulate enlightment being nerfed
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lotihoti
Famous Hero
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posted June 23, 2015 01:21 PM |
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May someone can upload me a map with that armg quests in it?
Cause my armg Crashs every time if i try to create a larger map, tiny maps work just fine...
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 23, 2015 01:28 PM |
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magnomagus said:
dynamic spellcasting with shorter turn durations
Please eleborate on this. Did you increase the casting initiative of the heroes?
I will test the battle tomorrow.
BUG: I play fortress and have advanced shatter dark.
No summons have joined my hero or my castle.
I have space.
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