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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 01, 2015 11:42 AM |
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Let me tell you a little story.
Currently destruction perk tree is alright and here is the reason why.
Fire perk tree - very nice and strong, defense debuff, army damage, spell multiplication BUT have you noticed that if we put armageddon to side there is only one fire spell - fireball. So pretty much the enemy knows what to expect.
Cold perk tree - here we have 3 spells and 2 perks. Frist perk is alright second is mediocre BUT have in mind that those perk may affect more than one creature depending on which spell you use.
Circles of winter can be casted on tier 6 and 7 which is quite a powerful blow. Also do not forget that Deep freeze multiplies the incoming physical damage by 100%. Combined with the 2 additional perks it is quite a big deal!
Lighting perk tree - 2 spells one mass and one single. Pretty high damage and first perk is good.
The idea that Chain lighting may not appear in the magic guild and it also hits your units + the mediocre second perk make this path not as desired as the rest.
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StevenAus
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 12:13 PM |
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I think you mean multiplies the incoming physical damage by 2, or adds 100% to damage. Multiplying by 100% equals 100%. 
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devilfire
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 12:43 PM |
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Actually Eldrich Arrow is fire damage too.. I don`t know if it works with the Fire damage boosts and perks but still. Also knowing that you will get a 1000 damage fireball in the face is not going to help you in any way.
Also you can hit multiple people with Circle of Winter but more often than not ignite will kill a lot more than just one. Also Ignite is really nice with Empowered spells and Mark of the Wizard, not to mention Warlocks Luck
Cold death was worth it in the original TOTE because there were might classes that could take it and still kill, but now only the magic classes can take Destruction, which means that they will have really high spell power (considering that you can get a lot more spellpower here than in the original), so Ignite will always be worth it more than Cold Death. Also, for Mages its always better to burst as high as possible as fast as possible, not to slow down the fight because most of the time their troops won`t win even if they act twice as much.
Deep Freeze is pretty good but lets not forget that its single target, while Fireball can reduce 50 % defense in 3x3 area which will hit more than one enemy most of the time.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 01, 2015 01:12 PM |
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@devilfire:
it is not possible to add +spell damage effects to artifacts, but have you noticed that since RC2 damage from chain lightning, deep freeze and circle of winter has increased significantly? This was done to address this issue.
Also against human players investing only in fire is a gamble since there are many defense artifacts and skills.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 01, 2015 01:16 PM |
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Here is the changelist:
Quote:
Made a lot of calculations, Using the following spellpower multipliers at expert level, every dmg spell will have maximum utility without overshadowing any spell that is supposed to be better.
wasp swarm - 10
stone spikes - 12
land mines - 12
eldrith arrow - 14
decay - 14
word of light - 14
fist of wrath - 15 (with low base)
ice bolt/circle - 16
firewall - 18
lightning/fireball/meteor shower - 20 (reference point , same as TOE)
chain lightning - 32
deep freeze - 40
implosion - 50
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 02:50 PM |
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Cold Death is a second perk, right? I feel it is ... underwhelming in the late game.
A typical perk you would choose in the first two weeks and then, the first time you meet an memory mentor, unlearn ist again.
IMO, getting 10% additional damage for your troops or making all your spells more potent (all Master) is far more benficial than dealing a bit more damage against high level creatures. If you kill 8 or 9 with one cast does not make that much of a difference.
IMO the perk could give something additional once you reach level ~20. Dunno, maybe a bit SP?
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devilfire
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 03:26 PM |
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What about changing slots of items ? Like a Copy Paste version of Emerald Slippers but with a different name, icon and slot ? (just to clarify I`m asking if can have both, not the one or the other) That could work too if someone want to focus hard on the same element damage.
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aionb
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 08:18 PM |
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In the light of the new H7 release, magnomagus - thank you again!
Same goes, of course, for HotA, Succession Wars and the master H2/H3/H5 map-makers. I'm very glad and grateful we have you 
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 09:18 PM |
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I still think that Divine Vengeance is unbalanced.
I have a Hero with over 50 SP using Implosion, dealing roughly 2k damage, while the enemy used after the 3rd attack of my stack divine Vengeance for around 3,3k damage while posessing around 20 SP.
Granted, our armies were huge (I had over 500 Stalkers, he had ~40 dragons, ~80 treants and the like) but it was my 3rd time attacking one of his heroes (apparently his main army. I hope so anway  ), so our armies haven't reached the peak by far (playing on an impossible sized map).
Still, divine Vengeance easily outclasses the strongest destro spells after the first few turns in combat - so you cast buffs on your army and then can use divine vengeance to anihilate one stack at a time ...
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 01, 2015 09:36 PM |
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@devilfire:
that's not possible the effects are tied to hardcoded id's
@aionb:
Thanks
@Nordos:
implosion with 50Sp = 2.5k + empowered = 3.7k + emerald slippers = 5k + luck roll = 9k
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 09:51 PM |
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Well, yeah, had bad luck and neither got luck nor empowered Spell.
What I rather meant was that the performance of divine vengeance outclasses the performance of destructive spells by a lot, while the Light School still has mass buffs at their disposal.
I don't want to say that divine vengeance is too strong, but what I wanted to say is, that the Light School, which normally orientates around buffs, shouldn't outclass a magic school which sole purpose is to deal damage when using a direct damage spell.
Though I don't have any alternative myself. Its simply something what catched my eye when I compared Destro with Light.
(on a sidenote, I still feel that Destro is the weakest school. Maybe adding SP to Destro itself, just like occultism, though with a level restriction? So, after reaching level 20, the hero gains additional SP? Dunno...)
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 01, 2015 10:15 PM |
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Nordos said:
Well, yeah, had bad luck and neither got luck nor empowered Spell.
What faction and class did you play? If you know how perks work it is 95% possible to get everything you need especially on a huge map.
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 10:23 PM |
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On my defense, it was my secondary hero. It was the Hero I took all witch huts with before making the decision to level him (well, I couldn't be bothered anymore to port my main hero back whenever an enemy hero came).
Well, anyway, the Hero was a Warlock. Though she started with Dark Ritual and I took the cult Master perk when it popped up.
BTW, she had also Necromancy ^^
Anyway, if you need other slots to complement your skills in order to be on the same level as a direct damage spell from a magic school which is specialized in buffs, I still do think that there is something wrong. After all, Destro does not have anything besides direct damage (and the small utility of Deep Freeze), when I imagine that a Light Hero can skill something like Defense or Offense instead of Occultism and having lower SP for more Attack and Defense while still dealing the same damage with their spells.... It simply looks wrong IMO.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 01, 2015 11:42 PM |
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Divine vengeance is very situational, sometimes it is actually very weak for a L5 spell, it can only be used later in the battle and can be postponed by focusing on tier 7/6 first. The formula cannot be changed, so it is very hard to balance for every possible scenario.
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LarkinVB
Known Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 05:45 PM |
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Nordos said:
On a sidenote regarding Battlesites:
I personally have no problems with them. Then again, I play Dungeon, Necro and Inferno (Dungeon with dark Magic -> Vampirism, Necro with Vampires and Skeletons and Inferno most times with the Ballista).
I don't use my full army for them. The standart is:
In Necro I use Skeletons and Vampires. Sometimes I add Liches into the mix, but they die extremly fast IMO.
In Dungeon I mostly use Stalkers. Sometimes I add something else, like Blood Maidens. Then I gain control via dark Magic (Plague, Frenzy, Vampirism, Slow, ...)
In Inferno I only use Hounds and Nightmares. They are the fastest of the bunch after all. If I don't posess Urgash Call: 6 Stacks of Hounds a 1. Killing the Shooters with the Ballista while running around all over the place. I mostly loose 4-5 Firehounds, only if I have bad luck would I get defeated (some things like arcane crystal are a must have, though).
Anyway, what I wanted to say: Don't use all stacks and your whole army. Sometimes it is enough for 1er stacks to be placed if you can easily evade (like battlesites).
I think we have to discuss which difficulty level you play and which week you approach the sites. I can not think to win a single battle with your approach so there must be something basically different in setup.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 02, 2015 07:13 PM |
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Larkin +1.
With the current hero class setup h5 can be played in so damn different ways. I can give a few tips for some classes and really nice skill combos/progression. There is a plan to make some videos some time in the future .
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 07:17 PM |
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LarkinVB said:
I think we have to discuss which difficulty level you play and which week you approach the sites. I can not think to win a single battle with your approach so there must be something basically different in setup.
Maps: RMG
-huge - impossible
-very strong Monsters (I tried impossible once. Couldn't even get the mines)
- 5 recource
- 4 exp
With Impossible as difficulty settings.
I mostly approach them beginning week 3-6. Before that, my Hero is simply lacking.
Additionally, I try to get some specific spells (Vampirism for Dungeon, Mass Slow for Inferno, Confuse/Blade Barrier/Arcane Crystal/Blindness for anything but Necro. Vampires OP  ).
The only faction with which I can rush battlesites is Inferno and the Ballista Hero. Though here it isn't unexpected if I were to be defeated fast. Dungeon needs the longest time, since I really need Vampirism to prevent losses. Once aquired (mind you need to get Soul Link as well!), it isn't much of a problem. Then again, if you were to use the poison hero, you may be able to unexpectedly rush any other battlesites then Crypta, Arcane Towers or elemental stockpile (which are the least favourite battlesites in general, since I can't leech on them).
Just a little tip: When under the effect of Vampirism, Raise Dead works just fine. As to say, they won't die at the end of combat.
(which reminds me, why is the Blood Mistress Hero an Overlord and not an Assassin? IMO it fits Assassin far more, since it is based around damage [just as Stalkers] ... Well, not that I care )
Granted, I don't approach battlesites that early. The only exception is Orc Tunnel, I guess. Orcs are weak without their Blood Rage after all
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 02, 2015 07:26 PM |
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@Nordos, if you take the things you said and put them down for normal heroes V tote it will work 100%. I think you still approach the mod the same way as the original.
Try to think different - for example - I managed to beat Griffin tower on week 3 with Fortress - engineer.
Today I beat such a site with Dungeon might hero lvl 7 (leadership + combat) and some 60+ stalkers. The only magics I had were basic mass slow (18%) (no mastery) haste ( something like 5-10%?). Not gonna spoil the other stuff.
Use your imagination !
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 02, 2015 07:27 PM |
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Since RC2 the battle site creature growth is based on 4 factors:
-casual game yes/no
-difficulty level
-map size
-amount of towns per player
the RMG monster setting however is not taken into account (not possible)
My general advice for approaching them on RMG map is to do first all other things you want to do in a zone, then go back to your town and max out your army/spells then you should be about ready.
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 07:35 PM |
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I agree that I approach the mod the same way as the original.
Thats why I can't really get into Destro, I guess.
Its simply that when you have bad luck and they spawn with 2 shooter stacks and or extremly fast stacks (gargoyles, Dshinns, Rakshasas, Hounds, Nightmares, Griffins, Champs, ...), you simply won't make it in time to defeat them.
As a level < 10 Hero, you lack the damage to take out 2 50-80er shooter stacks (T2), while running away from the other adds. In Dungeon with the Poison Master it may be possible, if you poison the correct stacks and got stalkers, but beating an elemental stockpile? An arcane Tower? an Elven Tower? Nope, not possible for me. Especially when I loose too many creatures, I simply don't think it effective, and thus I postpone them.
Eh, Magno, they should be related to the current week as well, if I interpret the code right
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