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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Are we being reasonable in our expectations of the developers?
Thread: Are we being reasonable in our expectations of the developers? This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted September 03, 2015 11:22 PM

cleglaw said:
what would you be expecting from h7?



I'll be short: Start with H5 TotE (as it was good game) and improve it, not dumb it down by eliminating randomness (e.g. skills and stack-sizes). Also, I hoped for return of 7-level creatures,8 factions in vanilla, and story set after H5 (or in Axeoth, but we are stuck with Ashan...) that is not centered about Holy Falcon/Griffin/Unicorn Empire.

Oh and Campaign editor, not only map editor.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 04, 2015 08:03 AM

Danny said:


To me it's a bigger issue is that they are shoehorning units from Heroes 3 into the game only to please fans when they don't really feel being part of the current concept, like Troglodyte or Medusa, but I can get over this and probably still enjoy the game as much as any of the previous Heroes. But it is pandering to fans and yet the fans still find things to be upset about so in the end it makes them look ridiculous, like that dude on the official blog who's posted the same thing about reusing models a hundred times now.

This had to be reposted and it's the actual truth. Like it or not.
But to be fair malassa's feces won for the same reason fury won. Hype of the new fans. Every little kid went nuts for the medusa!!
What could be done was to show an image of that shadow unicorn, and make line up choices a little more homogenous. One 100% enroth line up,one 100% ashan and maybe smth in the middle. The fact that we had to see that irrelevant, stretch of an excuse for a creatute in every line up(you guessed right i'm talking about that filthy cow) was disheartening. Thanks marzhin for the hero too
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted September 04, 2015 08:27 AM

Ah, yes, because Dark elves weren't forced at all
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 04, 2015 08:44 AM

Well it is a dark elf faction in ashan,no? For better or for worse the dark elf theme was decided back then. I m not fond of it either,but i hate seeing things get mixed up the way they did and end up with a circus of a line up.
Also that line up doesn't have that much synergy, gameplay wise.
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articun
articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted September 04, 2015 11:13 AM

Maybe post Dark Messiah in Ashan, Beastmen will be separated from  Dark elves, Academy and Stronghold, creating a new Beastmen faction. Asylumn maybe. That way, Dungeon can be a DE faction with critters from the deep (Faceless, Strider, Nightmare, Insects etc), Academy a contruct and magicians faction (though one beastman is not bad in Academy or two), Stronghold will be an Orc, Troll, Ogre and Cyclops faction with the occasional beast like wyvern or basilisk and probably Asylumn for the Beastmen with Minotaurs, Harpies, Centaurs etc.

This could also help create the swamp faction as well, by shifting some units and in general, changing Ashan a bit.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted September 04, 2015 11:32 AM

articun said:


This could also help create the swamp faction as well, by shifting some units and in general, changing Ashan a bit.


what is this "change" you speak of?

      -Ubi
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 04, 2015 11:35 AM

ChrisD1 said:
Well it is a dark elf faction in ashan,no? For better or for worse the dark elf theme was decided back then. I m not fond of it either,but i hate seeing things get mixed up the way they did and end up with a circus of a line up.
Also that line up doesn't have that much synergy, gameplay wise.
I don't think that synergy depends on the chosen units (medusa, troglodyte, etc.). It has to do with the developers and their ingenuity. After all, they are the one who provided the lineups and strategies that come with them... If they are not able to provide a synergy between the units, then it is definitely their fault, and not the faults of units and the fans. But then again we can blame the fans. Lol! Because they (fans) with the fans provided the game for the fans! Long live the fans!!!
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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articun
articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted September 04, 2015 11:47 AM

kiryu133 said:
articun said:


This could also help create the swamp faction as well, by shifting some units and in general, changing Ashan a bit.


what is this "change" you speak of?

      -Ubi


Well, supposedly, if there is shifting to the current faction lineups and the possibility of a new faction, there is also more probability for creation of another faction as well post Dark Messiah. If of course the changes are directed towards the right direction.

A beastmen faction is easy to make in Ashan since there are beastmen aplenty. Now a swamp faction, is mainly on the hands of Ubisoft.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 04, 2015 12:39 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 12:40, 04 Sep 2015.

Sleeping_Sun said:
I don't think that synergy depends on the chosen units (medusa, troglodyte, etc.). It has to do with the developers and their ingenuity. After all, they are the one who provided the lineups and strategies that come with them... If they are not able to provide a synergy between the units, then it is definitely their fault, and not the faults of units and the fans. But then again we can blame the fans. Lol! Because they (fans) with the fans provided the game for the fans! Long live the fans!!!

Who ever said it ' s the fans' fault and not the devs'?
I m just saying given the ingenuity of the devs,the blade had more possiblities to provide some synergy. I mean if you know a rock will eventually roll into the lake,you can provide some obstacles but in the end it's indeed the person's fault,that pushed the rock, in the first place. Happy now?
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 04, 2015 01:08 PM

ChrisD1 said:
I m just saying given the ingenuity of the devs,the blade had more possiblities to provide some synergy.
How so? As I said the units are not the problem, as you can easily shift an ability or strategy from one unit to another. Thus, the problem is them. If they don't come up with a synergy, then there won't be any synergy regardless of the lineups, i.e. the units.

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articun
articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted September 04, 2015 01:27 PM

Actualy Sylvan and Haven have some of the best synergies as a faction. Dungeon though feels more of a random creature mashup. Medusa can incapasitate and Stalker can lower defense. If Strider had also the ability to reduce attack, or even troglodyte then maybe there could be some more synergy for assassins and Minotaurs to provide much more damage.

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 04, 2015 02:21 PM
Edited by Sleeping_Sun at 14:23, 04 Sep 2015.

It all has to do with attributing the creatures with abilities. They are tabula rasa waiting to be filled, blank pages waiting to be written, canvas to be painted, etc. Just because Medusa is Medusa it doesn't mean that she has to be stuck with stone gaze ability/mesmerise ability. But then it is the problem of Ubi copy-pastung creatures and abilities and not allowing developers to be creative. The gaze of Medusa Sorceress could enshroud the target in dark magic, thus immobilizing it like the stone gaze, and making it suffer more damage when attacked by dark magic/spell/attack (a synergy with Strider). Another possibility is that Medusa Sorceress stones the targeted unit through her magic that could carve out or shape the stoned unit into Chtonian, thus adding the numbers to already existing ones or summoning it besides Medusa or by the stoned target (a synergy with Cthonian). Of course, we are talking here about percentage. Cthonian himself could benefit from adding bonus units to the stack whenever the earth magic is cast... It is all the question of creativity and being allowed to pursued this creativity. The units themselves mean nothing, they are pawns to be governed...

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted September 05, 2015 07:23 AM

articun said:
Dungeon though feels more of a random creature mashup.


Well isn't that what everyone wanted since that recalls pre-Ashan Heroes?

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 05, 2015 08:00 AM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 08:02, 05 Sep 2015.

Danny said:
articun said:
Dungeon though feels more of a random creature mashup.


Well isn't that what everyone wanted since that recalls pre-Ashan Heroes?

Hahaaha indeed. But as i said HC didn't have the numbers for the malaasa's faces to win. It was mostly new fans and hype for that damn medusa. The same reason the phenomenal sylvan line up  won
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keldaur
keldaur


Adventuring Hero
posted September 05, 2015 10:55 AM

Hmm no synergies between dungeon's units? What do you mean synergy? Skills that allow you yo do more damage and justo that? Pretty shallow, even iniative values are parte of unit synergies.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 05, 2015 11:01 AM

The more I see this thread the more I think it should be the other way around. Are the developers being reasonable with our expectations?
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 05, 2015 11:02 AM

keldaur said:
Hmm no synergies between dungeon's units? What do you mean synergy? Skills that allow you yo do more damage and justo that? Pretty shallow, even iniative values are parte of unit synergies.


Not artificial synergy(e.g: Treant and Dryad), but role synergy

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted September 05, 2015 11:14 AM
Edited by kiryu133 at 11:16, 05 Sep 2015.

LizardWarrior said:

Not artificial synergy(e.g: Treant and Dryad), but role synergy


Except the treant synergy only applies to mother treant which just feels weird...
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Madao
Madao

Tavern Dweller
desu
posted September 20, 2015 07:04 PM bonus applied by Elvin on 21 Sep 2015.

Interesting thread.

Expectations, hmm. Yes, it can get tedious on both sides, but some middle ground must be decided before the projects like this begin, that much is right. My two cents?

What fresh devs need to care for:
-Reinvention of the game systems is out of the question
-also any kind of dumbing-down and over-simplification

Where we need to draw a line:
-nitpicking
-asking for all-in-1 game


Redesigning core elements of a game is not only stupid, it leads to a ton of problems that show too little too late. That's the first mistake on the new dev's part, second is the attempt to lure new players by removing all those "boring" content. The result can only be a snowstorm (looking again at H6).
Actually, these two issues are also my main expectations from the developing team, the 3rd is called "gimme content".

So basically, if they don't go with (1)same familiar heroes gameplay, (2) same resources and monsters(read:more) and (3)more campaigns, factions, weapon sets then I guess I could say that I'm expecting too much, myes? Hmph.

See here, the real problem is finding what gameplay systems work best, cause asking all in one game is too much, as I said.
In an ideal world, this topic would be the first one that requires community voting and thorough consideration.
There's the middle ground that we should have debated: which skills are a must? Hex or square fields? Control points/archers moving/flanking or classic heroes stuff?

After that it's all cosmetics, really. Meaning not important to an player as much as the game itself.

What do?? Accept the cosmetics being a priority, and then hear all that "low budget" snow, plus get blamed for expecting too much in dev's eyes? Or expecting from a monstrous moneycraving company to not force cosmetics in their equally forced product, because the game?

The solution to situations like this is sadly always in the hands of the developers. If they don't change their attitude towards certain products and it's fanbases, nothing will ever change.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 21, 2015 05:48 PM

Honestly? I think most criticism is reasonable because they did it before, and I mean HoMM 5. The skill system of that game was (with some minor issues) spot on: large amount of faction-only skills that built an unique feeling towards the playthrough.

Similiarily, I think the HoMM 4 spell system (except , well, balance factor obviously ) was spot on, with many powerful spells for pretty much every school but death, making it just much more fun.

Unit-wise, I'd gladly take the HoMM 5 system again, with alternative upgrades. All I expect is that the units are fairly useful and not like in HoMM5 where some upgrades are clearly better than others by a large margin.

Content-wise, we have all the artifacts & adventure map objects from HoMM3, ready to be reused.

Honestly, most of the game is just done already. Just take the best parts of each HoMM game, and improve upon them. There is a lot of work to polish those systems, which is way better than creating another failed mechanics for a year and repeating HoMM 6's failure.

To be honest, I have very little faith in Ubi. They seem to ignore the fans' wishes way too much.
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