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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Inolin: New World, New Ideas
Thread: Inolin: New World, New Ideas This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 04, 2016 10:59 AM

Firstly, thank you all for your feedback and good words and suggestions.

Please keep them coming but keep them coming with your thoughts as to "why" and "for what reason" you suggest what you suggest. Minastir and I are always paying attention and discussing what is being said and in some cases it helps us work on forthcoming Factions with what you say in mind.

Minastir has answered some of your questions and i will also say that nothing you say goes unnoticed. But if changed will come, they will come at the end of the 10 faction presentation.

Also, i personally would appreciate ideas on factions and units info and abilities (Are they good? Are they interesting? Are they too strong or too weak? Are they useful? Do they allow the unit to be interesting on its own? Does the abilities work well in the faction in general?) This will be a very good feedback for us, not only to fine-tune what we currently have shown but also to do better on coming factions. Although, please do keep in mind the following: 1. Lower tier units have abilities that might keep them useful for longer games, 2. Faction info, Unit info and religion should be vague and general so as to not contrict the game because of lore. It is more on the lines of general guidelines. 3. Whatever is said will be taken into consideration but may not appeal to our vision for this project so please do not be offended if our opinions and viewpoints do not agree. 4. This project aims for two goals, one of them is to try and bring back the best that heroes games have offered so far, a combination of good elements that do not come as a disgusting chimera and two, provide a new world, with factions that are fresh but also familiar, without great leaps between what we have known and loved so far.

Finally, for statistics and growth rates and the likes, Minastir and I may not be too appropriate for the the job, as i believe neither one of us (at least me for sure) haven't really delved deep into the mechanics of the Heroes games to find out how formulas work or how stats affect the battles and so on. But after the factions have been revealed, i think it would be nice if someone that knows this stuff could be intrigued to work with us in order to bring even more info into Inolin

It turns out i am the one talking too much in these threads

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 06, 2016 09:05 PM

We walked the land of Inolin from swamp to plains, from the core to the skies! But what lies underneath? What, pray tell, crawls in the underground, silently scheming, preparing, growing stronger?

What lies in the dark abyss called Dungeon? Coming soon...

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted March 07, 2016 11:11 AM
Edited by kiryu133 at 13:09, 07 Mar 2016.

Articun said:


What lies in the dark abyss called Dungeon? Coming soon...


Black dragons! Calling it!
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2016 03:18 PM

Yes, Inolin was just updated with Dungeon faction

Tell us, what you think !

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted March 07, 2016 04:10 PM

I'm torn on this one

I like parts of it but dislike most other. I don't like the Ichneumon and a lack of Gorgon/Medusa makes me very sad however I really find the addition of Ahool and especially the centipede fantastic. Not topo keen on the manticore/anakore as long as the Gorgon/medusa isn't there...

Wyrm works well here but I can't really embrace the Ichneumon at all.

Ant guard is strange to me.

mixed feelings


Minastir said:

T7 Red Dragon / Black Dragon (Flier/melee)



CALLED IT!

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2016 04:12 PM
Edited by Rakshasa92 at 16:18, 07 Mar 2016.

I love ichneumon, you just hate it because a little ichneumon can kill a dragon, the most overused, boring and stupid creature in this proposal.

Well there are awesome dragons in mythology, but the stupid black/red dragons from D&D are one of my most hated creatures ever.

After Hippogriffs and Mermaids that is.

Also you must replace Anakore (which is copyright from D&D, and unlike the Gorgon it CANNOT be used ever, it is even against the law to use that creature as it is 100% a D&D monster.)

Use the mole-Giant from mythology instead, the Buggane is a mole ogre.







In the legends Buggane are very protective of smaller creatures such as Pixies/Fairies, so that could be a cool special ability + burrow of course.

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 07, 2016 04:24 PM
Edited by Articun at 16:39, 07 Mar 2016.

Raksasha, thanks for the Info about the Anakore, we didn't know it was licensed :'(. We will have to rethink this spot and indeed, i giant mole might be the best choice. We will see. We did try to avoid the name beholder and the pic with just the floating head due to Licensing as well.

As for the Blk and Red Dragons they are there because they are iconic to this faction from the start.

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2016 04:27 PM

I know why they are there, but they are really boring that is all.

And you can keep the picture of the ankore, and just call it Buggane, I used that same picture for Buggane one time, just replace the name, the picture isn't a crime to use.

Also Evil Eye should be called Argus, Argus is an eye giant/creature from Greek Myth so it suits in with Minotaurs.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted March 07, 2016 04:39 PM

Using copyrighted pictures can be a crime (though I don't think it matters here). Buggane does sound alright, though I find the idea a bit strange to me, mostly for unfamiliarity though and i REALLY like the Gorgon in dungeon. What is the decision behind the lack of them? coming later? really want to see your vision of it...

Rakshasa92 said:
I love ichneumon, you just hate it because a little ichneumon can kill a dragon


Not at all, it just feels out of place in caves, being cat-like, fast pack-hunters. It has nothing to do with them fighting dragons and I wouldn't mind them in any non-cave faction for example.




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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 07, 2016 04:42 PM

Medusae and Naga in general, meaning half snake half humanoid are being moved to the Water based faction for Inolin, so they will come later indeed. As for Ichneumon, there are many feline predators that dwell in caves, such as lions for example. Also being in packs doesn't mean that they remain in plain sight during daylight for example. It is just a twist we gave to the beast so that we can incorporate all layers and depth of an underground faction that goes from the surface to deep within.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted March 07, 2016 04:59 PM

Articun said:
Medusae and Naga in general, meaning half snake half humanoid are being moved to the Water based faction for Inolin, so they will come later indeed. As for Ichneumon, there are many feline predators that dwell in caves, such as lions for example. Also being in packs doesn't mean that they remain in plain sight during daylight for example. It is just a twist we gave to the beast so that we can incorporate all layers and depth of an underground faction that goes from the surface to deep within.


(h6 flashbacks) oh dear...

Guess we just disagree? I dunno, just feel like something less terrestrial could take its place. I guess you're trying to make it that they merely sleep in caves, not live there but it still feels weird. To me, Dungeon is pure cave-creatures. anything that doesn't primarily exist in them does not really belong with some notable exceptions and since most feline creatures are either jungle/forest or plain creatures I can't get behind them in any cave-faction.

eh, your thing. Like parts of it (snow yeah, centipede!) others not so much.

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Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2016 05:16 PM
Edited by Minastir at 17:20, 07 Mar 2016.

Changed Anakore to Buggane

kiryu133 said:
I'm torn on this one
I like parts of it but dislike most other. I don't like the Ichneumon and a lack of Gorgon/Medusa makes me very sad however I really find the addition of Ahool and especially the centipede fantastic. Not topo keen on the manticore/anakore as long as the Gorgon/medusa isn't there...



I do liked the Medusa in Dungeon also but we didn't wanted the situation just like in H6/H7 where there is faction with nagas and medusa is just variation of other unit in different faction. So, we decided Medusa will fit better in different faction and maybe it will make it little better for you, Medusa will be a 'iconic' creature with two upgrades Gorgon and Lamia.

kiryu133 said:

(h6 flashbacks) oh dear...



nah, it's very different

PS: Luckily for you Centipede and Ichneumon are on the same tier, so you wouldn't have to play with Ichneumon if you don't like but with the Centipede which you like

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2016 05:36 PM
Edited by Rakshasa92 at 17:39, 07 Mar 2016.

Ichneumon are mythological version of the Mongoose, just like the Pard (a very colorful cheetah monster with the speed of light) is a mythological version of the cheetah.


A Pard in action.

So I can relate with them being on the wrong spot, but still I don't mind them being there.

Good to see you did that with the Buggane! Cool.

Also Medusa should be named Gorgon, not Medusa, Medusa should be a Gorgon hero.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted March 07, 2016 09:35 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 21:40, 07 Mar 2016.

even with the new theme the minotaur still looks out of place with all those wonderfully creepy creatures. just let this damned creature fade, the world will still be here if there is no minotaur in the dungeon line up, geez!
the rest of the line up is good though, and it would be my top pick if it wasn't for the minotaur. and it's a T5 creature meaning I'd had to bear with it. thanks but no thanks.
good job though both of you. mich i hate you

as for abilities everything sounds good in paper till we actually use those so... cant tell much there:/
____________

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted March 08, 2016 12:27 AM

So the minotaur is overused but the silly d&d dragons that dont suit the cave life at all but only ended up thre in homm games because dragons sell, are not overused?

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Datapack
Datapack


Famous Hero
posted March 08, 2016 12:56 AM

ChrisD1 said:
even with the new theme


Does h7 have a new theme?

It's still the same purple from h6 but with more spikes...

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted March 08, 2016 06:32 AM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 09:57, 08 Mar 2016.

Datapack said:
ChrisD1 said:
even with the new theme


Does h7 have a new theme?

It's still the same purple from h6 but with more spikes...

I was talking about the inolin theme.
As for h7 yes it has a theme. Darkness,manipulation,stealth and backstabbing. Everything a minotaur represents(not)
As for the post-heroes 6 trauma,it s getting out of hand and ridiculous really.(Inferno is too fiery,h6 flashbacks, really kiryu??????)-.-
@rakshasa As for the dragons i didn't like 'em either,living in the cave but the minotaur is undesirable no1 for me. Besides the dragon can be replaced with the worm.

____________

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 08, 2016 10:19 AM
Edited by Articun at 10:27, 08 Mar 2016.

Boys, behave!

Refrain from using Ashan here. This is a new world and as you can see it has some but few Ashan influences. For the millionth time though, Inolin tries to bridge all Heroes games, from 1-7 thus some similarities are unavoidable as you have observed so far.

Now, about the Minotaur, Chris. Minotaurs have been the rightful dwellers of Dungeon from the start. It is not that the model is being reused, is that the whole concept of a faction that mazes in underground labyrinths might be originated in the greek myth of the Minotaur and the Minoan Labyrinth, so yeah, the Minotaurs with its chthonian symbolism fits the deep of the earth. Also, the original Minotaur was a monster that ate people, so what about it isn't creepy enough so that it cannot be iuncluded in the Faction? You also talk about theme, but the new theme is the one closer to Heroes III, meaning that Minotaurs are powerful warriors and magicians that live underground and either enslave or ally themselves with beasts and other races in order to hold dominion.

Finally, as you may have seen, we do try to lower down on the dragon and we also try to use as varied creatures as possible, but the dragons unfortunately sometimes are the easy picks when you have the rest of the lineup and nothing else can be as powerful or majestic. Furthermore, Minastir and i do constantly go back on previous heroes and see what was where and why but we are also (mainly Minastir) looking for more units, new designs, new ideas (that Minastir shows me and i am like "Oh, we can name it .....").

If you see, choosing one side of the lineup can lead to playing with a set of units very close to heroes III Dungeon. If you choose the other side, you end up with a completely new look on the faction. If you mix things up, even more variety happens. We try to do these things, bring the old, combine it with the new and create something that will appease as many as possible while being Good and with no constrictive Compromises.

Finally, please do keep in mind again that we do not go about searching beauty contests and popularity polls for the units because this is very subjective. I love the Phoenix but another might see it as an overused burned turkey.

And on a sidenote, as Minastir said yesterday on the comment of Chris about abilities: "We also wish we could try them and check them out, but right now this cannot happen yet :/"

EDIT & PS: Chris, why the snow did you post at 6am???

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted March 08, 2016 12:27 PM

I haven t set my clock here right or smth. It was 8 am
I will completely disagree about the minotaur. I know my greek mythology a cave is not necessairily underground but what can u say? And relax mama hen no one is fighting
As for the inolin theme,this faction stroke me as smth completely new and creepy+,minotaur. The h3 theme was underground but powerful stuff.
You did a good job overall but i d prefer to have the choice to skip the minotaur. He is not the only iconic dungeon creature from h3.
If you wish for true diversity and giving options about new theme,old theme and mixed, you shouldnt have stapled the minotaur but maybe the manticore or the trog. More easy to adapt to both themes.


____________

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted March 08, 2016 09:13 PM

Dungeon looks so cool! ^^
Love the ratkin minotaur combo (though personally I would have thrown svartalfs in as well for some greater diversity)

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