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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Inolin: New World, New Ideas
Thread: Inolin: New World, New Ideas This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 26, 2016 08:05 PM

esparado87 said:
So no more warfare units?

No, it doesn't mean there won't be any warfare units at all

There would be 4 basic warfare units for all factions, just like in  Heroes 3 or 5. Those warfare units would be: Catapult, First Aid Tent, Ballista and Ammo Cart. The warfare units wouldn't have unique models for every faction like in H7, why ? Because with this tier system there would be 12 unique models for creatures and if you would add to that 3 models for warfare units, that would make 15 models per faction so it is basically impossible to have. It is better to have more creatures in the line-up than unique models for warfare units (Heroes 7) which generally do the same for all factions, the model is different and ability but even the abilities don't diversify them between factions that much.

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Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 28, 2016 10:38 PM
Edited by Minastir at 22:45, 28 Feb 2016.

Another faction joins Inolin, this time it is ... Inferno !

What do You think about the line-up and the origins of the faction ?

7/10 already ! Only three factions left !

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moonshade
moonshade


Known Hero
posted February 28, 2016 11:33 PM

Inferno criticism

Really nice concept and take on Demons as chaos embodied! Kudos...

Just 2 criticisms:

1) Too much humanoids! While I really like the use of multiple mythological Demons, you should've included more bestial/less humanoid ones- ex. Nightmares..

2) It would've been nice to include a possessing Demon unit, with all the talk about possession...

But overall, a great faction!

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted February 29, 2016 11:10 AM
Edited by Rakshasa92 at 11:21, 29 Feb 2016.

While I want to be possitive with you guys as you are both gentle and cool folk I must be honest with my thoughts to everyone.

Things I don't like:

1: Too much humanoids, which is a very bad thing in my eyes.

2: Too much made-up names units, I know Thrasfyr is from Pathfinder, and it is one of my favorite monsters in Bestiary 2, but the creature itself doesn't make sense in Inferno, I would call it Chimera and use that Thrasfyr model, as Chimera can have ANY form you desire, as long as it had multiple heads. Also Picasa? What is that from? Did you mean the flesh/fat eaters Pishtacos?

3: The fire theme, keeping the fire-based theme is not moving foreward in my opinion, loose the fire and add the elemental theme or something different.



If there must be Pathfinder/D&D units in this I would suggest the Kyton, it is really cool.

Also Asag could be a great stone demon, which summons smaller stone demons from its back like the surinam toad.


Also this is my list of demons I use in my projects, maybe there is something here: Though some (like the Odontotyrannos) are not really demons in the myth, they just sound like demons would look like, in the case of Odontotyrannos a awesome horned/fang covered red/black tyrannosaurus rex demon.

Bushyasta is a cool sloth demon, which turns other creatures around her lazy with her aura, also slow moving. Maybe the town could be Sin (greed, lust, gluttony, pride, sloth, envy) based instead of fire based?

Empusa is a better upgrade for Succubus.

Omukade could be some awesome cool demonical centipede monster, which isn't a humanoid.

Makhai appear in the movie Wrath of the Titans, and appear to be merged twins, two bodies on one set of legs, the twin brother grows from the back of the main body, both set of arms hold weapons, and they dance into battle.

Delgeth is a cool demonic stag, which hooves leave a trail of fire (which would be good in a fire themed town, but while i'm against that this could be one of the few fire-units in the town as it is non-humanoid as well.)

Dybbuk are possession spirits/demons, they can merge with other units and make them more powerful.

Druj Nasu is a fly demon, pollution and corruption are their speciality.

Flaga (Oracle / Stalker) / Incubus / Cucay *Demonic Jack-O-Lantern* / Succubus - Empusa - Lilim / Aeternae (Bone Darter / Bone Blade / Bone Lord) / Anteros / Erinyes - Fury / Gylou *Demonic Lamia* / Makhai / Arzshenk *Demonic Minotaur* / Odontotyrannos / Abaasy *Demonic Fachen* / Ajatar / Garm - Orthos - Cerberus / Valkyrie / Fetch *Demonic Doppelganger* / Hellequin / Hala / Nocnitsa - Shtriga / Tartalo / Kurobozu / Nekomata - Ovinnik - Kasha / Omukade / Otoroshi / Sazae-Oni / Suiko *Demonic Kappa* / Tsuchigumo / Nogitsune *Demonic Kumiho* / Apocalypse Locust *Demonic Pelesit* / Tiyanak - Toyol / Asag / Bushyasta / Druj Nasu / Fulad-Zereh / Aqrabuamelu *Demonic Girtablilu* / Rakshasa (Flesh Tearer / Noble / Illusionist) / Raktavija (Blood Warrior / Blood Corruptor / Blood Summoner) / Bouda / Popobawa / Binaye-Ahani / Oni *Demonic Cliff Ogre* / Delgeth / Mahaha - Sharale / Tsenahale - Eurynomos / Yeitso - Be Chasti / Dybbuk

Though I agree that most of these don't suit in a HOMM game.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 29, 2016 11:40 AM

Pit Fiends should res dead creatures as demons (which are missing from the lineup?), and indeed why no Nightmare?
____________

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted February 29, 2016 11:45 AM

To be fair, we didn't notice that we had so many humanoids until we posted the faction. :/ So, for that sorry on our part.

Now, there was a mispelling, it is Pisaca and not Picasa. And they are Buddist "Ghosts" that haunt places were a very violent death has occured. We tried to use as varied units from different mythologies as possible and also new designs, so that's how Loa, Pisaca, Proliferator and Thrasfyr came to be.

About the fore theme, it wasn;t intentional. In the descriptions i actualy only refer to the Magog as a fire demon. The rest are not associated with fire, despite the pics. Or better said, since they live in the core of the world, they are accustomed to high temperatures but they do not belong to the element of fire.

Now, about possessing... It was intentional in the idea that a demon is present and affecting the individual it attaches to, not that it inhabits it. Also i don't know how a possession could work as an ability in the battle... But we will have to think about it more i guess.

I had forgotten about the ability of Pit Fiends in Heroes III to be honest Galaad. But we have Devil summon Thrasfyrs and we made Pit Fiend a spellcaster. So maybe this somehow covers it?

As for Nightmare or Hellmare we thought it might either fit somewhere else (another Faction) or it could prove to be too similar in design to Unicorn and that's why we decided to leave it out of Inferno lineup. But as i said before, we didn't realize we ended up with so many humanoids until we posted the faction (downside of working too much on so many lineups, is that at one point you loose the forest for the tree...)

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted February 29, 2016 02:49 PM

nightmare could take mimnotaur's place in dungeon hohohoh
i disagree with all of the other people about the humanoid nature of the demons. it's just post-heroes 6 stress (anything that resembles heroes 6 in the slightest way, is automatically bad)
the "rat" demon as an idea is really good, and proliferation suits it. Its face could resemble a demonic rat
the creature descriptions are really good. It's a line up I would cherish and enjoy playing! good job.

sylvan is atrocious, shame on both of you

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted February 29, 2016 05:43 PM

Wow, you guys took H5's Inferno, remove the whole (more or less) relious bit and made it perfect! You really make me wish this was an actual game. Keeo it up.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 01, 2016 08:16 PM

Can't say I'm much in favour of Inferno, but that's more because I've never really like the concept behind the faction, too much 'hell' the Haven's 'heaven'. At least you guys have tried to include some decidedly non-Christian (aside Cerberus and Efreet) creatures.

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 01, 2016 10:21 PM

MattII said:
Can't say I'm much in favour of Inferno, but that's more because I've never really like the concept behind the faction, too much 'hell' the Haven's 'heaven'. At least you guys have tried to include some decidedly non-Christian (aside Cerberus and Efreet) creatures.


I can't say we made this version of Inferno hell. It is not were souls go to be punished or such. Also Cerberus and Efreet are not Christian in origin. Efreets are Islamic and Cerberus is Ancient Greek. We did give Cerberus more of its original role though as a gatekeeper spirit, since Cerberus was the gatekeeper of the underworld (not hell but the whole underworld).

In general Inolin is not too focused on religion. We do provide some basic info and structure but what we want is for each one to be able to create his/her own stories.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 02, 2016 11:44 AM

The group as a whole is called demons, they have imps, succubus, pit-fiends and devils. It might not be strictly the Christian hell, but it's got many aspects of it.

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 02, 2016 12:22 PM
Edited by Articun at 16:22, 02 Mar 2016.

Well, true, but keep in mind that we are also trying to make a reference to all previous Heroes games, so we wanted to bring back some of the more familiar units for demons. Then, there are demons from other mythologies that are not so bad in nature, or assosiated more with death and the undead and so on. Christian, Islamic, and Persian mythologies and theologies are those that present the polarity of good/evil with more defined evil units. I am not so fond of Inferno as a faction either, but in this world i wanted (and Minastir agreed) to give them a different makeout. They are not evil in the sense of wanting to make evil. Evilness is their tool, what they use to promote chaos, so that things do not stagnate. That's their raison d'ętre. That's why their description says that the people of Inolin understand that demons are nescessary.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted March 02, 2016 12:47 PM

I like it. Too fier-y(that's a word, shut up!) and some creatures feel a bit redundant like having Gog and succubus. They kinda fill the same "fire-throwing humanoid demon" entry. Tone down the fire, get more abstract and creepy stuff (Venom spawn? Venom spawn) and I feel it could be really cool.

Creepy crawlies, indescribable horrors is something I feel Heroes "inferno"(guess the name would have to change, eh?) could really work with. H4 has some cool ideas regarding that by not using red in such a glaring way and focusing more on the unnatural aspects to a degree (Ice demons, Venom spawn etc). I think Nightmare could fit well here with a more darkness and fear motif instead of an hell-steed one.

I like the Pisaca a lot. Fits a Heroes daemon town.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 02, 2016 04:07 PM

kiryu133 said:
I think Nightmare could fit well here with a more darkness and fear motif instead of an hell-steed one.

Yes, that would be a nice touch.
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted March 02, 2016 07:25 PM

What about this zombie artwork?



Or this?


____________
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H7 Umbramancer Project

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Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 02, 2016 11:50 PM

moonshade said:

1) Too much humanoids! While I really like the use of multiple mythological Demons, you should've included more bestial/less humanoid ones- ex. Nightmares..

Rakshasa92 said:

1: Too much humanoids, which is a very bad thing in my eyes.


About the Humanoid thing, just like Articun said we have realized this, only when it was pointed to us. But how did this happened ? Well, we have focused heavily on the creatures roles when making this line-up. We wanted spellcasters, shooters, fliers and most of creatures in our line-up which are like that re also humanoid : Cultist, Gog, Succubus and Efreet. So in this process we might have rejected more beast like creatures because of their roles, which are more often melee walkers.

But also, let's not forget that HIII Inferno had only one non humanoid creature which was Cerberus and people liked it

I can tell you one thing guys, *spoiler alert* the next faction will have less humanoids than bestial creatures for sure

Mediczero said:
Wow, you guys took H5's Inferno, remove the whole (more or less) relious bit and made it perfect! You really make me wish this was an actual game. Keeo it up.


Thank You

Galaad said:
kiryu133 said:
I think Nightmare could fit well here with a more darkness and fear motif instead of an hell-steed one.

Yes, that would be a nice touch.


I can only say that we will think about this suggestion after we publish all 10 factions, then will come the time for some slight changes and we will consider adding Nightmare

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Vusapion
Vusapion

Tavern Dweller
posted March 03, 2016 05:41 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 14:49, 09 Mar 2016.

Pisze po polsku, bo z angielskim jestem na średnim poziomie i nie chcę umieszczać posta z wieloma błędami.

Po pierwsze ciekawe rozwiązania oferujecie. Jedna opcja, to utrzymanie konwencji z szóstki i siódemki, poszerzona o wybór na każdym z trzech poziomów. Druga to powrót do macierzy i tradycyjny podział na siedem poziomów, ulepszona o nowe rozwiązania. Jednak dla mnie obydwa rozwiązania są błędne.

Albo dostajemy jednostki bez większego zróżnicowania ( 6 i 7 część ) albo mamy podział, gdzie stworzenia z poziomu 1 i 2 w pewnej fazie gry prawie całkowicie tracą na znaczeniu. Lepszym wyjściem jest powrót do czwartej części, gdzie podział na 4 poziomy wyglądał bardzo dobrze. Jednostki pierwszego poziomu, szczególnie te silniejsze przez cały czas rozgrywki były ważnym ogniwem w armii, a dodatkowo jednostki zdecydowanie prezentowały się różnorodnie.

Ogólnie pomysł na przeniesienie rozgrywki do nowego świata oraz wybór jednostek jest jak najbardziej trafny, jednak to co zaprezentowaliście, to dopiero lekki zarys koncepcji, którą mam nadzieję będzie w miarę upływu czasu poszerzali. Dobrze, że są opisy jednostek oraz nakreślenie ich umiejętności, ale sam odbiór jednostki najlepiej ukazują statystyki.

Skoro wkładacie w to sporo czasu i pracy, to moglibyście popracować także nad umiejętnościami i całą resztą elementów na które składa się gra, wtedy dopiero będzie można oceniać rezultaty waszego wysiłku. Serdecznie do tego zachęcam, bo widać, że macie naprawdę dobre pomysły i rozwiązania do nich.

Mod note: Translation by Minastir:

Vusapion said:
I'm writing in Polish, because my english is at medium level so I don't want to put a post with a lot of mistakes.

Firstly, you are offering interesting solutions. One option is to maintain the convention from HVI and HVII, expanded with the choices for each of the three levels. The second is a return to the classic and the traditional seven tier system enhanced with new solutions. But for me, both approaches are wrong.

We are either getting units with very little differentiation (HV and AHVII), or we have a tier system,  where creatures from tier 1 and 2 in a certain phase of the game, almost completely lose their importance. A better solution is to return to the HIV, where the division into 4 tiers was very good. The units of the first tier, especially the more powerful ones were an important part of the army  throughout the whole game, and additionally units were very different from each other.

Generally, the idea to transfer the game to the new world and a choices of units is certainly accurate, but what you have shown, this is only an outline of the whole concept, which I hope with the time it will be expanded. Good thing, that you have included descriptions of units, and to outline their abilities, but the perception of units are best show thru statistics.

Since you put in this so much time and work, you could also work on the skills and the rest of the elements which the game consists of, then it will be possible to assess the results of your effort. Sincerely I encourage you to this, because I can see that you have really great ideas and solutions for them.


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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted March 03, 2016 06:22 PM

Uhm, here we speak english, not russian.

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Minastir
Minastir


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 03, 2016 06:27 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 14:50, 09 Mar 2016.

Rakshasa92 said:
Uhm, here we speak english, not russian.

1. It is Not Russian
2. I can understand it so there is no problem here

PS: I was going to translate it for Articun, so I might post the translation here, if anybody would want to know what he wrote

Here is is: Mod note: moved to the post in question to avoid clutter

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matrix123mko
matrix123mko


Hired Hero
posted March 04, 2016 08:11 AM
Edited by matrix123mko at 08:12, 04 Mar 2016.

Your project is great. It's interesting for old universe and new universe fans. May Ubisoft take that concept and make good game.

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