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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Terror night in France.
Thread: Terror night in France. This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted July 26, 2016 10:13 PM

Except, Elodin, that they are mulling over this oficially since three months ago (and inofficially for some years).

In any case, whether the cops in France patrol the beaches with vests or not or whether there might be a law that allows German use of army within their borders - it's exactly what I said: It doesn't gain anything, it's just cheap actionism without any real sense, purpose or effect and in the end it may just lead to a negation of human rights.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 26, 2016 10:20 PM

The first of human rights is the right to live. If a few muslims must be monitored in order to keep other people alive, that must be done without delay and without any compromise in front of sectarian or politically correct considerations.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted July 26, 2016 11:31 PM

Salamandre said:
The first of human rights is the right to live. If a few muslims must be monitored in order to keep other people alive, that must be done without delay and without any compromise in front of sectarian or politically correct considerations.
And I thought your beloved "border control" would do the trick - you still didn't come up with an explanation, fot that one, by the way. But what can you expect from fascists, escept bullcrap.

I mean, do you really think, there is no monitoring going on for a long time? NSA listening in to billions of handy conversations? CCTV everywhere? In what kind of a world are you living?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 26, 2016 11:51 PM

At this part I think is worthless that I waste my energy to argue at this abysmal level. We got over 200 people killed in the last year by Islamists and all you babble to people asking for better monitoring is "fascists". Count me out of this moronic game you enjoy so much.
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frostysh
frostysh


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WHY?
posted July 27, 2016 01:59 AM
Edited by frostysh at 02:04, 27 Jul 2016.

Elodin - Yeah, of course, but to be preciasly not about you, but about the posts that has been typed by Elodin.
This posts a perfect example the all-goodness Christianity violent nonsense.
Perhpas some Christian nationalist radical will read your bullsnow about the "spineless politics and the more radical measures for the immigrants", of course before this, that particular "West Nations" radical will see the video on youtube the terror in Nice, with his/her costly Apple Ipod . And then this particular radical will kill the innocent muslim at the night, somewhere somehow, of course he/she will piss the pants to the end of his/her days, after such action, but anyway the friends and/or the family of the dead particular muslim, will be little bit disappointed about this happens, and of course there will be at least 1 muslim radical with his/her ideas,  and then somewhere somehow the next terrorist attack appeared , and the cycle will begin again.... This is actually how the famous Christian charity works?

If someone want to fight against organisation like the ISIS, obviously you need to learn Arabic languages, then you may try to track down the islamic-radicals, which is obviously not so easy. . . .And the other stuff.
But please, do not make a more hysteria and 'Apple Ipod Cafe panic' , this will lead only to the actually goals of terrorist acts.
and obviously do not take to seriously Elodin's nonsense about "the Islam/muslims want to conquer a whole Earth..."
To understand the islamic radicals, you must understand the condition where this kind radicalism has born, the life there , and stuff.

artu - interesting review of the History of the Modern Turkey , but with a lot of complicated abbreviates , I have doubts that the turkish rural folk can understand the meaning of this political words .

JollyJoker - And what you trying to prove with the offense to the mr/mrs Salamandre side? O.o
The situation with this terr. acts and the hysteria in the Europe is obviously pathetic, but I have doubts that the forum "hot debates with a bad language included" will change something.

In general, European folks can better understand the situation with euthanasia of the one particular dog, when they saw it in the Facebook than the situation with one particular country and it's population which suffer from a war, from a war with geopolitics involved..., and they suffer many years, like a Nice attack but it is continuous.
No matter ...

Galaad -
Galaad said:

I would like to reiterate Islam is not the problem, Djihadists are a very small minority of Muslims and most of the time brainwashed. Again not told by the merdias 16 of Nice attentat's victims were identified as Muslims BTW.
IMHO France should quit EU along NATO and stop playing this retarded war, this may sound naive but I don't believe more violence will stop violence. What we need is clever, solid and long-term diplomacy with the Middle-East. And stop the hypocrisy, we condemn Al-Assad but give legion of honor to Saudi Arabia and are friends with Qatar, give me a break.


Obviously there is a some truth in your text... but still it is looks weird for me. ;/

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artu
artu


Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 27, 2016 02:24 AM

Galaad said:
we condemn Al-Assad

It's just Assad, btw. It's a man's surname, not an organization. "Al" in Arabic is like "the" in English.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted July 27, 2016 04:46 AM

Quote:

This posts a perfect example the all-goodness Christianity violent nonsense



Your continual trolling does not intimidate me.  I'll have you know I am a master troll even in my senility.   But the all-seeing eye would not approve of me exercising my bridge craft so I will be merciful to you.

The only violence I have advocated is fighting those who are out to kill us or to rape our women, children, and goats.   My position is hardly radical nor uniquely Christian.  

If life is a human right then it is a right to defend human life.  I chose to do so.   A man of peace must be willing to war to preserve or to gain peace.  Thus fight I when required.  Besides,  I am too fat and old to run.  

A "leader" unwilling to go to war to defend his nation is no leader. A nation undefended will be overrun by barbarians.  Thus the cowards ruling the West must be replaced.  Violence is not required for this either since the nations of the West have some semblance of democracy.

Oh, you imply the video that I linked to will inspire some "Christian radical" to go out killing innocent Muslims.  But the video specifically calls for "peaceful" action.  That very word "peaceful" is used. So, no call for violence there either.

Quote:
Elodin's nonsense about "the Islam/muslims want to conquer a whole Earth..."


Elodin is correct about what Islam teaches.  Please review jihad . Below is a snippet from the link.

Quote:

Just as humanity is divided into believers and infidels, the world itself is also divided into the abode of Islam (dar al-Islam), namely the region under Muslim rule, and the abode of war (dar al-harb), referring to all lands not yet under Muslim rule, which must be conquered by the sword, i.e., through jihad.



Quote:
To understand the islamic radicals, you must understand the condition where this kind radicalism has born, the life there , and stuff. 



Jihadists can be poor, middle class, or rich.  Paupers or princes.  The only thing they have in common is their understanding of Islam.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted July 27, 2016 08:31 AM

There is one mistake that is made, and that is to take in all those refugees and immigrants and then not throw serious money after them and making them learn the language and understand the country they now live in and the rules there.

Otherwise, Salamandre, you were never really in anyway, since you never explained that excuse of a point of yours. What I make of it is, that you want basic human rights removed for muslims and the government to a) monitor all muslims everywhere and b) throw everyone of those out of the country who does anything wrong, like, park on the wrong side of the road; also c), monitor every muslim wanting to enter the land a couple of days, to make sure they are no potential candiates for a) and b), and d) monitor all borders all the time to make sure no one slips through unmonitored.

Of course, if that was possible at all, real terrorists, as opposed to amateurs and amok runners, would know all that and behave accordingly, but I suppose that's just a minor inconvenience.

Elodin, on the other hand, wants the world to realize that the Islam is jihadist by default and everyone else to go on a jihad, sorry, crusade against it. Of course, if - if - you can make a point for Islam being aggressive/convertive in its core, you can also make a point for the Christian religion being passive/tolerant in its teachings - the thing with the other cheek when you are hit. In practise, though, that hasn't really worked, for both religions, mind you, but maybe it's high time to show these inept camel drivers how a red-blooded Texan would do it and bomb Mekka and Medina to ashes. That would teach them respect, wouldn't it?
What? They can build them up again, afterwards, can't they?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
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Kreegan-atheist
posted July 27, 2016 08:52 AM

People, for the last time, your focus is on the completely wrong side of the issue. Some extra control inside Europe is certainly needed at the moment but this is a temporary workaround. The real issue is with the governments - German, French, UK, US, pretty much all of them - THEY are causing this with their double-standard policies in the Middle East. France supports terrorist states and organizations and France suffers from the terrorists from these states and organizations - if you find that surprising, you're not living in this world. Same with Germany. Even more true for the UK and the US. As it turns out, even my incredibly irrelevant country supports terrorists (branded as "rebels" however) with weapon smuggling and logistics, following instructions from Washington. No amount of internal counter-measures - least of all decreasing civil liberties - will fix the issue as long as the general approach to the Middle East remains the same. So instead of wanting the heads of some brainwashed nobodies who wreaked havoc before being put dawn like all such pawns are, you should go to Hollande, Merkel, Obama and ask them where the **** ISIS get their money from all these years and why nobody from the super-concerned democratic powers gives a **** about it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 27, 2016 09:07 AM

And you repeat same thing, while you perfectly know nothing will change on that matter. Europe will not withdraw from those wars, no matter how many die, so the "workaround" will still be the only viable option, or what, sit down and wait those criminals to find us? How funding ISIS matters when someone born in Europe can buy a knife for 4 euros then behead a priest, or rent a truck for a couple hundred euros then use it a mass weapon? That works when high level operations are planned, as the 11th of September, here we have petty criminals using petty weapons to cause the more deaths and spread the more havoc.

The guy in Ansbach was allowed to remain illegally in Germany, the guy who beheaded the priest had electronic bracelet but no one to survey, the guy on the truck was already convicted for violence with weapon, every of them has some criminal record. Which, in normal times, may or may NOT be significative, but in this specific times and context, must be monitored closely and answered accordingly.

Thats the only tool we have at this moment, talk about Middle East politics is only a luxe.  
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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted July 27, 2016 09:14 AM

That can only help for a while until the source of all the problems is removed, or you think that state of emergency can be maintained forever? That guy with the knife wouldn't even get a knife if there's nobody to indoctrinate him and that indoctrination comes from states which you happily trade with and support on international level.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 27, 2016 09:19 AM

There is another option, maybe start and fight ISIS?
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Aionb
Aionb


Known Hero
posted July 27, 2016 09:34 AM

To whom it may concern

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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted July 27, 2016 09:45 AM

Fighting ISIS is exactly what I'm suggesting but you can't fight them just by bombing the militants in Syria and Iraq - even if you kill them all, there is a huge pool of potential reinforcements in the Middle East, Northern Africa, Europe, Asia, some are even in the Americas. Cut the financing and it will collapse within months, for good. That however requires revising your relationships with certain "allies" and stopping the double-edged operations in the Islamic countries.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted July 27, 2016 01:02 PM

Politically speaking, it would be a good idea to simply give all Islam states a choce: a) a public and official statement that they do not support violence in the name of Allah or Islam, condemn the IS and all terrorist actions and will actively fight against them in order to prove their peaceful intentions or b) be branded as tolerating terrorism in the name of Allah and the Islam and have all diplomatic and economic ties to (the theoretical alliance of what would probably be NATO plus a couple of others) cut.

The snag here is the oil, obviously. The solution for that might be Russia, but that's its own problem, so I don't see that happening.

Clinton looks determined, though, to get something done in that regard - although there is the danger she might overdo it.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 27, 2016 03:58 PM

artu said:
It's just Assad, btw. It's a man's surname, not an organization. "Al" in Arabic is like "the" in English.


Thanks, I didn't know.

Zenofex said:
People, for the last time, your focus is on the completely wrong side of the issue. Some extra control inside Europe is certainly needed at the moment but this is a temporary workaround. The real issue is with the governments - German, French, UK, US, pretty much all of them - THEY are causing this with their double-standard policies in the Middle East. France supports terrorist states and organizations and France suffers from the terrorists from these states and organizations - if you find that surprising, you're not living in this world. Same with Germany. Even more true for the UK and the US. As it turns out, even my incredibly irrelevant country supports terrorists (branded as "rebels" however) with weapon smuggling and logistics, following instructions from Washington. No amount of internal counter-measures - least of all decreasing civil liberties - will fix the issue as long as the general approach to the Middle East remains the same. So instead of wanting the heads of some brainwashed nobodies who wreaked havoc before being put dawn like all such pawns are, you should go to Hollande, Merkel, Obama and ask them where the **** ISIS get their money from all these years and why nobody from the super-concerned democratic powers gives a **** about it.


So much exactly this.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 27, 2016 04:25 PM

Galaad said:
So much exactly this.


I think is a bait, similar to the "radicalized" concept (radicalized to what? To Islam of course).

Nothing but last month, ISIS attacked cities such as Istanbul, Dhaka, Baghdad and Medina, which are muslim cities. So while this can puzzle some, as killing muslims will not serve the goal of recruiting more muslims from those countries, this reveals other possible reasons behind the terror, and they are exclusively nurtured on the Jihad ideology.

ISIS does not discriminate between Muslim and non-Muslim targets, for the simple reason that a muslim country governed by legal and political institutions such as parliamentary democracy, is painted as un-Islamic. Muslims who reside in and support such institutions are cast as collaborators and traitors to jihad. They are therefore legitimate targets, including the Saudi government for being a close ally of the US, see Medina attack. For ISIS, undermining stability is a primary goal for chaos to reign and an Islamic State to finally emerge.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Nerf Herder
posted July 27, 2016 05:58 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 18:45, 27 Jul 2016.

Zenofex said:
People, for the last time, your focus is on the completely wrong side of the issue. Some extra control inside Europe is certainly needed at the moment but this is a temporary workaround. The real issue is with the governments - German, French, UK, US, pretty much all of them - THEY are causing this with their double-standard policies in the Middle East. France supports terrorist states and organizations and France suffers from the terrorists from these states and organizations - if you find that surprising, you're not living in this world. Same with Germany. Even more true for the UK and the US. As it turns out, even my incredibly irrelevant country supports terrorists (branded as "rebels" however) with weapon smuggling and logistics, following instructions from Washington. No amount of internal counter-measures - least of all decreasing civil liberties - will fix the issue as long as the general approach to the Middle East remains the same. So instead of wanting the heads of some brainwashed nobodies who wreaked havoc before being put dawn like all such pawns are, you should go to Hollande, Merkel, Obama and ask them where the **** ISIS get their money from all these years and why nobody from the super-concerned democratic powers gives a **** about it.


I don't know if it's the right decision or not,  but the popular consensus is that the Saud monarchy is much more tolerable than what the vacuum would leave in its place. Imagine if the illegal Iraqi invasion included Arabia as well. We already see what pit it has led Iraq into,  and those woes in Iraq have spread into Syria,  which have in turn spread to Europe.

The ME has been in disarray since post-WW1 when it was artificially divided up. A defeated Ottoman that continued to exist like Germany did would probably have been far preferable (while still being kicked out of Europe) ,  but that is water under the bridge. Not that Ottoman was all peachy  but Jordan is now the only sane country in the region and that's because they got lucky with a good king. Whatever long term solution there might be to the ME,  what is certain is that it's not an easy fix.

The sooner so much of the world doesn't have to use petroleum as a crutch,  the sooner the Sauds will become more and more expendable.  Right now they have many leaders by the balls and I wouldn't hold my breath for that to change. Oil states and corruption seem to go hand in hand except in economies that are already diverse and affluent,  and then the oil is used to turn it into a set from Hollywood. Venezuela is the Saudi Arabia of the Americas and they're about as transparent as a lead bucket.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 27, 2016 11:01 PM

Elodin said:

Elodin is correct about what Islam teaches.  Please review jihad . Below is a snippet from the link.


Of course Elodin is correct, why not, the mr/mrs Elodin represented such verifed cluees like jihad - THE GUIDE TO THE POLITICAL LEFT, wow, it is a really truth...

But, I prefer to read something like this:
Lewis, Bernard (November 19, 2001). "The Revolt of Islam". The New Yorker. Retrieved August 28, 2014.

This a very different from a Christianity during WW2 - I mean, most of Nazi German was Christian

Busting the Top 10 Myths About Islam

There you can explore the many transcription of the Coran itself, like a Holy Bible it is can be used in the propaganda of war, but the religion itself is a poorly connected to the terror causes....

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 27, 2016 11:23 PM

Nazi didn't kill because they were christians but because they were nazis. Jihad is the path of Islam, not some external ideology or idea, it is the very core of it. Then you all who like so much bringing again about Christianism, name me a single country which, in the name of Christianism, prohibits other religions or punishes by death those who converts to other religions, as Islam does almost everywhere is the majority.

And please, XXI century examples, stop the crap with crusades, Adam and Eve, Santa or Big Bang references. By that time, Islam was as harmful as other religions, but he is the only one who never adapted through history and remained the same retarded and cruel ideology, which can only compare to Nazism.
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