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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Terror night in France.
Thread: Terror night in France. This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 19, 2016 09:12 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
US is a very bad example for western countries u see what happens after years of total capitalism. It's capitalism in end state where only a few ppl got nearly all of the available money. Ppl shot each other in the streets with waepons the rich ones sell them. The rich are seperated, they got their own universities and secured living districts while other rot on the streets.

Indeed, and if one wants to see the results of socialism then please inspect Venezuela, Cuba and Sweden.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 19, 2016 09:24 PM

Quote:
...and you want to tell me that ONE of them, a 17-year-old who obviously was overwhelmed by the cultural differences who managed to hurt 3 people before the cops were there and shot him dead, is not only a TERROR attack, but also proof for a problem with Islam?



Clickey

ISIS just released a video made two weeks ago of the refugee that attacked people with an axe.  In the video he said:  "I lived among you and in your homes and I prepared this attack in your country."  Time for the West to wake up and smell the bodies.

@artu

I challenge you to produce any command of the New Testament for Christians to kill anyone.  The New Testament Scriptures govern the New Testament (New Covenant) which is the Covenant of Jesus and his people ( Christians.)

Also, the Jewish people were never told to to kill sinners in foreign lands. Their laws mandated a death penalty for certain sins, and those accused stood trial at the city gates.

I challenge you to produce a denomination of Christianity that is calling for a holy war.

I challenge you to produce a New Testament scripture that authorized a holy war. Christianity has no concept of "jihad."

All religions are NOT the same.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 19, 2016 10:03 PM

Elodin said:
Quote:
...and you want to tell me that ONE of them, a 17-year-old who obviously was overwhelmed by the cultural differences who managed to hurt 3 people before the cops were there and shot him dead, is not only a TERROR attack, but also proof for a problem with Islam?



Clickey

ISIS just released a video made two weeks ago of the refugee that attacked people with an axe.  In the video he said:  "I lived among you and in your homes and I prepared this attack in your country."  Time for the West to wake up and smell the bodies.

That's bullcrap. German investigators have learned meanwhile that the guy is supposed to have learned on the weekend that a friend in Afghanistan had died. There is a farewell letter, supposedly to the father, in which he writes that he will take vengeance on the infidels and he should pray for him he would go to heaven.
There are NO confirmed ties to ISIS, and it's also only an assumption that the video is showing HIM - in fact, the officials suspect that ISIS is CLAIMING this only. Considering the efficiency of the boy - he was just a hysterical boy that lost it.

I mean, you know how terror is supposed to work, right? It's supposed to make people distrust everyone, but numbers don't lie. It's fearmongering.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 19, 2016 10:05 PM
Edited by artu at 22:06, 19 Jul 2016.

@Elodin

I never claimed all religions are the same, in fact I emphasized that Islam is a religion of battle in comparison. Yes, there is not a concept of jihad in NT, and I never said there was. But the Christian clergy that declared those holy wars read the same Bible you did and spending their life over the book, their interpretation was quite different than yours, wasn't it. In the OT, God himself gives direct orders of conquest:

And the Lord said to Joshua, “Do not fear and do not be dismayed. Take all the fighting men with you, and arise, go up to Ai. See, I have given into your hand the king of Ai, and his people, his city, and his land. 2 And you shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king. Only its spoil and its livestock you shall take as plunder for yourselves. Lay an ambush against the city, behind it.”

Anyway, it is not me who's turning this into a Christianity/Islam comparison and I really have absolutely no desire to do so. You were the one comparing them and I made a short comment about it. The point is, as I already said, any history of theology is a history of cherry-picking determined by the social norms and historical motives of the age. Conquest was a regular fact of life back then and it is natural that people supported it with religion which was the ideological polish for almost anything. But here is an irony for you, after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, it indeed turned into a religion of conquest, (its "soldiers of the true God" even inspired Muhammed) and the Biblical Canon you hold in your hands today, is mostly brought together and selected by them. And they were the ones who spread the religion all over Europe, hence, also indirectly to America through Europeans.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 19, 2016 10:11 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 22:23, 19 Jul 2016.

Actually the video is translated, certified and online in gore sites as only they have the guts of posting. He declares all that Elodin says and much more. Check theYNC.com.

As usual, you look foolish by ignoring the elephant in the room, despite the sheer evidence put in your face.

Edit: found the video not translated on dailymail  

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 19, 2016 10:33 PM

Ebonheart said:
Sweden.


Works perfectly imho... whats wrong about it in your opinion?

Elodin said:

I challenge you to produce any command of the New Testament for Christians to kill anyone.  The New Testament Scriptures govern the New Testament (New Covenant) which is the Covenant of Jesus and his people ( Christians.)

Also, the Jewish people were never told to to kill sinners in foreign lands. Their laws mandated a death penalty for certain sins, and those accused stood trial at the city gates.

I challenge you to produce a denomination of Christianity that is calling for a holy war.

I challenge you to produce a New Testament scripture that authorized a holy war. Christianity has no concept of "jihad."

All religions are NOT the same.


Who gives f*** about if it's islamian, jewish, christian? Anyone who harm others 'coz of his spititual believes is an intollerant as*hole anyways. There are less than 1% as*holes on this planet living in peace more or less but about these below 1% is talked about permanentely even if the government got problems or rich ppl and companies causing much more problems to the citizens on long term.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 19, 2016 10:54 PM
Edited by Elodin at 22:59, 19 Jul 2016.

@artu
Joshua in the passages is taking back Abraham's land after being slaves in Egypt.  That then became the nation of Israel.  Israel was never told to expand beyond that land.As for your claims about Time, Christianity, and the Cannon, untrue.


@Salamandre

Yeah, that ISIS group that posted the video has never been known to claim responsibility for an attack that is not theirs

There was another attack in France that the government is now pleading ignorance to motivation.  A Moracan man stabbed a woman and three girls(8, 12, 14) for being scantily clad. The local reports though tell why they were attacked.  Not a planned attack but religiously motivated.

Clicky

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 19, 2016 11:04 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
There are less than 1% as*holes on this planet living in peace more or less but about these below 1% is talked about permanentely even if the government got problems or rich ppl and companies causing much more problems to the citizens on long term.


You didn't check your facts. Several tens millionsmuslims in the world sympathize with the goals or tactics of terrorist groups – or both. The percentages are somewhere around 20% of muslims world wide. 20% from 2 billions is worth a lot, given that one alone is capable to kill 150 persons.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 19, 2016 11:35 PM
Edited by artu at 23:38, 19 Jul 2016.

Elodin said:
Joshua in the passages is taking back Abraham's land after being slaves in Egypt.  That then became the nation of Israel.  Israel was never told to expand beyond that land.As for your claims about Time, Christianity, and the Cannon, untrue.

Look, I really don't want to derail the thread, especially after being falsely accused of doing so. Of course, Israel was never told to expand beyond because the OT God is still "tribal" but once the claim of universality comes in the mix, the OT opens up to a very different set of interpretations. And that's exactly what the church did. The bottom line is, God orders not only conquest but also plunder. And every conquest has its justification mechanisms. There is no "Abraham's land," there is land and people fighting over it.  

For the rest of your comment:

First Council of Nicaea:
The First Council of Nicaea  was a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea (currently called Iznik, Bursa province, Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. This first ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom, although previous councils, including the first Church council, the Council of Jerusalem, had met before to settle matters of dispute. It was presided over by Hosius, bishop of Corduba who was in communion with the Pope.

It's main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father, the construction of the first part of the Creed of Nicaea, establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter, and promulgation of early canon law.


Development of the Christian biblical canon:

Books included in the Christian biblical canons of both the Old and New Testament were decided by the 5th century for the ancient undivided Church (which includes both Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions) and was reaffirmed by the Catholic Church in the wake of the Protestant Reformation at the Council of Trent (1546).


Before the unification under Rome's central authority in the 4th century, Christianity had many local variants, spreading by many "unauthorized" texts or by plain oral tradition.

The spread of Christianity in Europe by Roman Empire:


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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 19, 2016 11:58 PM

Neither Judaism not Christianity has any concept of jihad.  If you wish to contine slandering either please do so in another thread.


France raided 200 mosques.  Found lots of weapons and ISIS and other jihadist material.

clicky

Quote:

Cazeneuve said the number of weapons apprehended so far is staggering.

He said: “In mere hours, we have seized one-third of the quantity of war-grade weapons that are normally seized in a year.”



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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 20, 2016 12:06 AM

Nice straw man, since I neither claimed they had "jihad" nor slandered anything.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 20, 2016 08:43 AM

Salamandre said:
Actually the video is translated, certified and online in gore sites as only they have the guts of posting. He declares all that Elodin says and much more. Check theYNC.com.

As usual, you look foolish by ignoring the elephant in the room, despite the sheer evidence put in your face.

Edit: found the video not translated on dailymail  
No, you and everyone in the media is blowing up the case to elephant proportions. Meanwhile the autheticity of the video is confirmed, but it's an internet relationship. The guy simply went nuts when he learned his friend was dead, made the video and started his personal jihad. He didn't come to Germany as sleeper agent.0
As was said a million times, there is no way to avoid personal vendettas, just look at the plethora of school shootings UNRELATED to any Allah.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 20, 2016 10:47 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 10:58, 20 Jul 2016.

Salamandre said:

You didn't check your facts. Several tens millionsmuslims in the world sympathize with the goals or tactics of terrorist groups – or both. The percentages are somewhere around 20% of muslims world wide. 20% from 2 billions is worth a lot, given that one alone is capable to kill 150 persons.


I wouldn't call only one article "fact", also agree and sympathize doesn't mean these ppl will do the same. Anyways education helps and prevents a lot anywhere on this planet. Thats why Trump shouldn't be US president, a dumb guy as him would find the big red button, not to make america great again but, reduced it to dust like the rest of the world. But the ppl who elect him are even more dumb thats the tragic.

Quote:
Neither Judaism not Christianity has any concept of jihad.  If you wish to contine slandering either please do so in another thread.

France raided 200 mosques.  Found lots of weapons and ISIS and other jihadist material.


Nope these guys you describe just have nukes and invaded other countries like iraq, afghanistan bombed it down, stripped the oil and left the ruins alone after that... (made by "gods own country" aka USA) also you got crusades in the past, murdering, raping and plundering landscapes. Israel claimed land belonging to other ppl (muslims) after WW2, on what base? Because they lived here nearly 2000 years ago? You think something like this will be forgotten in a collective mind? I doubt it.

The mainproblem here is 30% of ppl in this planet using up to 66% of all available ressources, while the other 70% just got 33%. Lots of ppl can't live a life we do in western society... if 7*10^9 ppl would live like ppl in europe and US we would need 6 earth like planets. So again, who is to blame for always supress others, strip them off their ressources and leave them back with no ability and ressources to create their own prosperity over time? Thats the reason for all these actual refugee waves and other prospectively to come. Also in a very near future the groundwater will get out in middle east, you can't use desalination facility for all ppl there, the infrastructure isn't built at all and won't be in time, wars for water are unavoidable. Still not speaking about global warming, in Europe it's not the biggest deal, it happens rather mild compared to other places in the world. portugal, spain and southern italia maybe greece aswell could possibly be uninhabitable at the end of this century coz of the heat.

On base of this prognosis on long term extremistic islamist will die, the rest is matter of education and society.

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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted July 20, 2016 11:06 AM

@artu

To be fair, the canon basically reaffirmed the Septuagint in the OT, and included the gospels that were the most coherent with each other, other than various letters of the most relevant heads of the churches, mainly the Pauline letters and the directions given by the Apostles.
And of course the revelation, due to it being written by John the Evangelist that wrote an entire gospel through divine revelation.

While theologically important those aren't really battle ready books.

Can we close this discussion here?

@Paradoxon

It's comparable what a bunch of knights did for barely 200 years compared to 1300 years of what the Mohammedans did? I can't tell at this point. The US aren't crusaders, they are just the self-proclaimed police of the world, their holy wars are for the god of "democracy".

@topic

School shootings unrelated to Islam happen mostly in the US, and I'd say the US has other problems related to its treatment of its citizens rather than ideologically charged groups.

What happens here in Europe is that we're constantly bombarded with news of attacks on our soil, and when you hear that once again it was a muslim doing trouble you kind of put 2 and 2 together.

I don't get why is it better that a man would commit an homicide due to vengeance justified by his beliefs rather than a terrorist doing his thing, ya know, that kind of gives credence to the argument that Islam isn't ready for the western world, if people start killing because of culture shock.

Here in peaceful Italy and hopefully yet secure from terrorist attacks the armed forces confiscated weapons caches from some home-grown Islamist associations, not to mention the closure of illegal mosques in the major cities due to reports of spreading radical messages, which, one of them by personal experience was near where my brother used to stay while studying in Milan, and I can assure you, that neighbourhood was pretty insecure after dark.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 20, 2016 11:19 AM

Neraus, I'll reply in the thread related to the subject.
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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 20, 2016 04:53 PM
Edited by markkur at 16:58, 20 Jul 2016.

Look you continue to look past the simple reason for my post.

Quote:
If you want to compare the theology of Islam and the theology of Christianity


The thread is...Terror night in France. Christianity is not a part of the story.

So your response to me evaded your own bias.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 20, 2016 05:26 PM

Yes, Markkur. I'm sure, cherry-picking half a sentence  from a 40 lines post which refers to an already existing comparison by at least three members and then accusing me of derailing the subject is caused by my bias. And of course, in OSM threads the topics never ramify to related sub-topics, ever!  

You are now in "I would be violating the CoC if I name your level of X" zone.
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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 20, 2016 07:49 PM
Edited by frostysh at 19:51, 20 Jul 2016.

///CONTENT MOVED///

I AM SORRY - mispost there... I need some sleep

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 20, 2016 07:52 PM
Edited by frostysh at 22:24, 20 Jul 2016.

Salamandre said:
So, just read in the news from Germany: a 17 yo afghan refugee attacked people in a train with an axe and a knife, injuring 5 people before being shot by cops. And yelling Alahu Akbar but probably they misunderstand, he wanted to thank Angela for warm welcome.

Damnt those racist german cops, they didn't get it yet, JJ you should teach them how to deal with Islam religion of peace.


So wow... I imagine me on the place of Uncle Sam, and after incidents like this one Oktoberfest terror attack, like this one NSU murders, like this Solingen arson attack of 1993, like this one 2004 Cologne bombing, and the many other not mentioned above.

After this incidents, I following your mr/mrs Salamandre's, your mr. Elodin's logic, I WILL DEPORT the all German (because hell yeah.. they obviously the all readically-naizes piece of...   ) folks from USA, then I will use a Carpet Bombardment



of Munich i.e., turning it to the ruins, and then I will say: "I fought the neo-nazi-terror , HOOOREY, U.S.A, U.S.A, U.S.A, ... !"

Or perhaps I must follow to the logic of frostysh, and make the DIRECT attack on this pathetic neo-nazi organizations, and then I will destroy them (this is obviously including , hmmm, neutralization of the most "featured" members of this organizations...).

Because the first plan, is how you want to deal with ISIS, and the second plan, is how ISIS can actually be defeated with the less victims possible.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 20, 2016 10:05 PM

Clicky

So, France is extending the state of emergency for 6 more months and canceling summer events in Paris.  Terrorists are winning.
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