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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Terror night in France.
Thread: Terror night in France. This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 26, 2016 11:39 AM

Church in Rouen attacked by 2 knife-men. 1 killed so far, the priest.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 26, 2016 12:22 PM

I would like to reiterate Islam is not the problem, Djihadists are a very small minority of Muslims and most of the time brainwashed. Again not told by the merdias 16 of Nice attentat's victims were identified as Muslims BTW.
IMHO France should quit EU along NATO and stop playing this retarded war, this may sound naive but I don't believe more violence will stop violence. What we need is clever, solid and long-term diplomacy with the Middle-East. And stop the hypocrisy, we condemn Al-Assad but give legion of honor to Saudi Arabia and are friends with Qatar, give me a break.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 26, 2016 12:35 PM

Salamandre said:
JollyJoker said:
Salamandre, as a Romanian immigrant you should just shut the hell up


I suggest you to F yourself and quick, if still able. What is this intimidation attempt to shut me based on my origins?

JollyJoker said:
and think about the fact that brexit wasn't because of muslim immigrants, but Eastern European immigrants.


This is simply false, yet you continue to repeat it. Did Cameron over criticized phrase swarm of migrants refer to european or african?

Also why do you bring Brexit here? I talk about France.
Well, you don't, actually. You hate-babble about the muslim dangers, switching to Germany. And before you tell others to F yourselves, you should inform yourself. Brits did NOT vote against EU because of REFUGEES, they voted against EU , because they don't want people from Eastern Europe swarming their country: Hate Crimes
So you should just be a little quieter and hope that not suddenly ALL immigrants are shunned and they call you "gypsy scum" or "car thief" or whatever niceties the born French chose to call you.

Quote:
I don't care about ALL religions, I care about the one killing right now. You are the first to express your very vocal hate in the christian thread, yet when I criticize Islam you jump hysterically.
I have no problem with you critisizing islam, but I have a serious problem with you demanding action against people just because they have a certain religion - this is against basic human rights, which you should know. All people are equal, no matter their religion. Basic human right. You don't want that? Then what's next?

Quote:
I always underlined about borders control, where do you see me advocating war?
What is that supposed to gain? Explain that. Based on the real worls, please, and the fact that you already have a certain muslim percentage.

Quote:
JollyJoker said:
You have to stop pretending there was an easy problem for which there was an easy solution,


I ask for laws apply, as they are in the constitution. You offer or propose nothing then kneel in front of the terror. You should be in anger that one asylum seeker, condemned multiple times for violence, was still allowed to remain in, fully profit from benefits and as gratitude, detonate a bomb and harm your brothers. This should be your priority, deal with the inexistent german laws which failed to protect your people.
You can bet, that Germany will react accordingly - and that will be the loss of all the harmless asylants that will now not be tolerated anymore but thrown out.
It won't solve anything, though, for no one.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 26, 2016 01:03 PM

JollyJoker said:

So you should just be a little quieter and hope that not suddenly ALL immigrants are shunned and they call you "gypsy scum" or "car thief" or whatever niceties the born French chose to call you.


So far, you are the only one speaking about me as foreigner and immigrant. That says a lot. I already explained how I see "immigration" from my view point, but talking to german wall there.

JollyJoker said:
I have a serious problem with you demanding action against people just because they have a certain religion


Which actions? Control at borders?  Quote me where I said else. You consider borders control as opposite to human rights?

JollyJoker said:
You can bet, that Germany will react accordingly - and that will be the loss of all the harmless asylants that will now not be tolerated anymore but thrown out.


As it did for Cologne? I take the bet, nothing will change and people around you will continue to die. Congrats, your "tolerance" made that possible. Don't forget to light a candle with each body buried.

JollyJoker said:
It won't solve anything, though, for no one.



It would already have saved several lives, if Merkel wasn't such naive and irresponsible and let 1 million in without any sensed control or investigations. And also having lost track of 130 000 of them. But probably lost lives mean nothing to you, as long as you can strut about how tolerant you are and accuse the others of being close minded.


Galaad said:
I would like to reiterate Islam is not the problem, Djihadists are a very small minority of Muslims and most of the time brainwashed.


yeah, Islam has nothing to do with Islam. Also the problem is that none of the jihadists were reported as radicalized, so unless you have a magical ball which shows you who among the muslims nearby will be the next mass killer, tell me how we will deal with this while avoiding "discriminating" them. So?

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 26, 2016 01:15 PM

Quote:
so unless you have a magical ball which shows you who among the muslims nearby will be the next mass killer, tell me how we will deal with this while avoiding "discriminating" them. So?

Galaad said:
IMHO France should quit EU along NATO and stop playing this retarded war[...]. What we need is clever, solid and long-term diplomacy with the Middle-East.


Targets from jihadists are specific enough to understand the situation and their motives.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted July 26, 2016 01:37 PM

Galaad said:
Quote:


Targets from jihadists are specific enough to understand the situation and their motives.


Every Jewish school and synagogue in France is guarded by police.  Now every church and Christian school must have police protection too.

Every public event is a target.  Every marketplace.  Every street. If all these can be protected the home invasions will start and people slaughtered where they live.  With strict gun control in most of Europe I am really suprised this is not already happening.

Until every person in every nation bows to Allah and lives under Sharia Law the Islamic supremacists will wage jihad. The West either fights back or our civilization gets destroyed.

Mass immigration is being wielded as a weapon to wage war on the west.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted July 26, 2016 02:03 PM

Nice one, Rambo, many of these terrorists were trained and financed by YOUR government.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted July 26, 2016 02:32 PM

Clicky

So, at least one of the church attackers was a convicted terrorist claiming allegiance to ISIS. He was released from prison in March. He was supposed to be wearing an ankle bracelet for electronic monitoring and live with his parents.

Yeah, that worked out, didn't it?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
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posted July 26, 2016 02:37 PM

@ Salamandre

In spite of all your cheap polemics you still failed to say what "border controls" are supposed to gain. What is it you want to "control" and for what purpose,

This is the biography of the Nice truck driver. Tell me, then, how your "border controls" would have prohibited the attack.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
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posted July 26, 2016 02:49 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 15:03, 26 Jul 2016.

He had a permit of staying in France and was already convicted for attacking a driver with weapon. At that point, you kick him out after he completes the jail sentence, and you make sure he doesn't enter again. This is not about being caught over the authorized speed on highways, this is about attempting murder. Such people should not be allowed to continue to stay in a hosting country.

Take for example the syrian guy at Ansbach. His demand for asylum was rejected 1 year ago yet he wasn't sent back, but continued to live in Germany, despite the laws on asylum. The only reason he didn't kill thousands of people is that he didn't have a snowing ticket so they didn't let him enter where 2500 young people were dancing. Which you will probably call as well discrimination. A snowing ticket saved thousands of lives.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted July 26, 2016 03:51 PM

@Elodin

By target I meant specific countries.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted July 26, 2016 04:10 PM

Salamandre said:
He had a permit of staying in France and was already convicted for attacking a driver with weapon. At that point, you kick him out after he completes the jail sentence, and you make sure he doesn't enter again. This is not about being caught over the authorized speed on highways, this is about attempting murder. Such people should not be allowed to continue to stay in a hosting country.

Take for example the syrian guy at Ansbach. His demand for asylum was rejected 1 year ago yet he wasn't sent back, but continued to live in Germany, despite the laws on asylum. The only reason he didn't kill thousands of people is that he didn't have a snowing ticket so they didn't let him enter where 2500 young people were dancing. Which you will probably call as well discrimination. A snowing ticket saved thousands of lives.

We seem to come to different conclusions here, because both his two prior problems with the law - falling asleep behind the wheel causing an accident and attacking a driver with a wooden pallet, an IMPROMPTU weapon, after another accident - did in fact (and correctly) NOT give the authorities any reason to see him as a security risk (which would have led to a nullification of his permanent residency permit). Instead, their picture was incomplete at the time - his real problem was depression and instability (just as with the other guys), with his interest in Religion being piqued only a short time ago.

Now, what all these people have in common is that they have a history of violence based on psychic problems - not that they are muslims. Because there is enough NON-muslim violence, also from people with psychic problems; the muslim angle is just offering a more spectacular way to went all that anger and fear (others kill their parents or kids or wifes or a neighbor that happens to say the wrong word at the same time - or start shooting in a classroom. Or they wreck a plane with 150 passengers.

Don't you see that?

I still have no idea what "border controls" are supposed to gain, by the way.

And about that Ansbach incident - do you really think there was LUCK involved? I mean, start thinking a bit. This guy has been living in Germany for some time, and he managed to get the materials necessary to build a suicide bomb. He intents to go to a music festivals and blow himself up amidst of two thousand expected visitors - but he doesn't know or thought about buying a ticket? Didn't have money left for it? Couldn't be bothered to steal a ticket? Does that sound like that guy could think clearly?
If he really HAD wanted to do a lot more than killing himself with a lot of public attention it would have been pretty easy, obviously. So it would have been for the train attacker - I mean, the guy in Nice killed 80 with a simple truck, what is so difficult to understand in how to make a real mess out of a market?

So, sorry, no. As tragic as this is for the few victims, if there really WERE serious IS-terrorists with a grudge and a plan, they could wreak havoc on a much more massive scale.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 26, 2016 04:15 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 16:45, 26 Jul 2016.

JollyJoker said:

Now, what all these people have in common is that they have a history of violence based on psychic problems - not that they are muslims.


The history of violence is prior to the mass killing in the name of Islam. They have those two things in common, and if you don't understand the second one, then you will remain a helpless spectator. Islam is big part of the equation and you just want to pull it away, like it was some banal detail.

JollyJoker said:


And about that Ansbach incident - do you really think there was LUCK involved?


yes, an IMMENSE luck, like the presence of the 3 americans in the Thalys train. The guy was prepared to die and kill hundreds by blowing himself, not to go dance, so he didn't think of purchasing a ticket. Try to enter a movie after it started, you can't. Is so dumb and simple like that. Look, I don't see what we argue on this issue as this has been reported as fact, he went, he didn't have a ticket, they expelled him, he detonated the bomb at the door. This is what saved hundreds of people.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 26, 2016 04:45 PM
Edited by JollyJoker at 16:51, 26 Jul 2016.

Salamandre said:
JollyJoker said:

Now, what all these people have in common is that they have a history of violence based on psychic problems - not that they are muslims.


The history of violence is prior to the mass killing in the name of Islam. They have those two things in common, and if you don't understand the second one, then you will remain a helpless spectator. Islam is big part of the equation and you just want to pull it away, like it was some banal detail.
THEIR violence is only a tiny fraction of violence based on psychic problems, instability and depression and so on. They also have in common that they are male, for example.

In other words, there is the big "set" of psychological unstable people with a tendency to vent their fear and anger and frustration violently, ranging from domestic abuse to uncontrolled violent reactions that lead to manslaughter to family killings, school shootings, and spectacular suicides.

Then there is the much smaller set of these people who are muslims.

And lastly there is the yet much smaller set of THOSE who are acting out their violence, sugar-coating it with Allah-stuff, and supposedly for a "good" cause.

You can easily see that, by the way, by reading carefully in the biography of the Nice perp:
Quote:
His father and his younger brother insisted that the attack "had nothing to do with religion", stating that Lahouaiej-Bouhlel did not pray and never observed the holy month of Ramadan. His brother claimed that Lahouaiej-Bouhlel did not know people, never sent his family presents, and never said hello.
In the days before the attack, Lahouaiej-Bouhlel let his beard grow and told people "the meaning of this beard is religious." French authorities stated that Lahouaiej-Bouhlel showed a passion for religion only recently; "Mohamed only started visiting a mosque in April," a witness stated.


Not much of a muslim, was he?

You should be able to actually get your mind around this - I know that, because it's no rocket science and from other things you posted I know that you are not stupid or something.
Which means, you are WILFULLY stupid, probably because you don't want to give up on that simple image of the enemy you cling to, as if it was the way to salvation or something. Repetition of your bias doesn't make it any more palatable, mind you.

Still, no border control explanation. Not able to give one?

Anyway. This has been gone long enough. The real danger are people like you, because they cry for "harder laws" to "protect the innocent", until eventually someone comes and promises it to them, and you may probably understand when I, as a German, am not to keen on this way to handle things. You know, what many people used to say about Adolf Hitler, long after he had killed himself and the old Europe with him? "At least you were safe walking the road at nights again." Even that wasn't right, since no one was safe anymore from arbitrary justice and concentration camps at the time, and I hate the idea it could become that way again, only with Jews being replaced by "dangerous muslims".

EDIT:

JollyJoker said:


And about that Ansbach incident - do you really think there was LUCK involved?


Quote:
yes, an IMMENSE luck, like the presence of the 3 americans in the Thalys train. The guy was prepared to die and kill hundreds by blowing himself, not to go dance, so he didn't think of purchasing a ticket. Try to enter a movie after it started, you can't. Is so dumb and simple like that. Look, I don't see what we argue on this issue as this has been reported as fact, he went, he didn't have a ticket, they expelled him, he detonated the bomb at the door. This is what saved hundreds of people.

Well you don't know much about music festivals or cinema visits, it would seem, and reported as fact is, that he wanted the ticket controllers to let him in WITHOUT ticket - of course he could have bought one -, and when they insited he had to buy one, he blew himself up.

He'd also would have had the option to wait a while. A short time before the end the would have left him in for free, since that's the usual way to handle these things.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
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Wog refugee
posted July 26, 2016 04:50 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 16:53, 26 Jul 2016.

JollyJoker said:
The real danger are people like you,


It only shows how much your mind is blurred, to claim that I am THE REAL danger in a thread where we report about recently butchered people. Thats what sensed people have to deal with before taking any action, and I am afraid we are far from salvation.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted July 26, 2016 04:53 PM

That's what they said some 80 years ago as well, shortly before the Nazis were elected.

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Elodin
Elodin


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Free Thinker
posted July 26, 2016 06:26 PM
Edited by Elodin at 20:01, 26 Jul 2016.

@JJ
That's like saying it is not Nazism that was the problem but a few mentally ill Nazis.

Clicky

Turns out the church where the priest was beheaded during mass was on a hit list found on another jihadist who attacked another church.

Quote:

French media have also reported the church targeted in Tuesday's attack was one of several Catholic sites on the hit-list of a 24-year-old Algerian student.

Sid Ahled Ghlam was arrested last year on suspicion of murdering a mother-of-one during a botched attempt to attack a church in Villejuif.

He was sent by Belgian Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who directed a cell which carried out the 13 November attacks in Paris during which 130 people were killed and the 22 March attacks in Brussels that killed 32 people.



How the media would like to report the story:

adult photo sharing
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted July 26, 2016 08:28 PM

Look, Elodin, what is the goal of terrorism, when it's something like extorting the independence of a certain province, that is, terror without an actual political goal?

As the name says, the goal is to create fear, an atmosphere of distrust, blaming people just because they are Irish, muslim, black, students, members of a certain party, coming from certain countries and so on.
If that happens, your society is already losing out. Once people wonder about the bearded guy with a knapsack who has a sinister look about him, when people start blaming others just because they happen to have a certain religion (as if THAT hasn't happen often enough), when people avoid large groups of people, markets, public festivities - the terror wins.

Just because every now and then a plane crashes, people don't stop using them. Just because a certain number of people is mugged, raped and assaulted in every city in the world you don't suddenly quarantine them or people start moving away.

Just because there ARE a couple of really disturbed people, PART of which may fall for this idiotic jihadist nonsense for their own personal reasons and give in to the delusion their disturbed ness might make some sense, you cannot start your own jihad against the islamic religion.

Lastly, may I remind you that it's a basic human right, that no one must have disadvantages because of their skin color, sex, or religion? As you know I'm a firm opponent against every form of organized religion, but even I think that society must allow people to get rid of all religious nonsense by evolution. not by decret (it's not like it hasn't been tried behind the iron curtain, mind you).

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted July 26, 2016 09:00 PM
Edited by Elodin at 21:19, 26 Jul 2016.

Islamic terror is not a couple of mentally ill people.

There might be a problem when you have to use armed riot police in bullet-proof vests as life guards on beaches.

clicky

Also, Germany is considering deploying the army inside the country.  Using the army in raids and as reserves to back up police.  Also reconsidering immigration policies and deportation policies as it realizes Islamic terror "has already arrived" in Germany.

Clicky


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yogi
yogi


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of picnics
posted July 26, 2016 09:31 PM
Edited by yogi at 21:32, 26 Jul 2016.

i bet isis is backed by the rothschilds
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